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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Is it normal for schools to teach a belief in God (non church school)

29 replies

Dirtydishesmakemesad · 08/11/2011 09:38

My 7 year old tells me she has been taught at school that God made her and abotu heaven, she asks why we dont go to church etc. We are not religious although i have no problem with her being taught about religion im not sure i like the idea of her thinking that God made her etc. Is this normal? im just ignoring it at the moment i dont want to get into an argument with her about God so i just smile and change the subject/

OP posts:

tiddlerslate · 08/11/2011 10:52

Same thing at my DD's school. Also not a church school. DD thinks God made her and the world.

I thought they would be taught about all religions but not that God is real etc as fact.

I've said to my DD that I don't believe in God and that she has to make up her own mind about things like this. Not sure if that was the right thing to do though!

exexpat · 08/11/2011 11:01

Is this in assembly? They are required by law to do a "daily act of collective worship of a broadly Christian nature" in schools, whether church schools or not. Some interpret this fairly loosely and just do assemblies about being nice to each other etc, but if you have a head who is actually religious, they can turn quite evangelical. Some schools also get outside groups or the local children's minister in to give assemblies or do workshops. Personally, I don't think this is appropriate in non-church state schools, but it's the law... You are allowed to withdraw them from assemblies if you want.

If she is actually being taught about God, heaven etc in lessons, and as fact, then I think you should definitely have a word with the teacher or head about it.

My DCs went to a CofE school for a while despite my being an atheist (local catchment school, no choice), and we had quite a few discussions about how some people believe various things about god and heaven etc, but I don't. No need to avoid the subject, unless you're worried about her piping up in class and saying "My mummy says there is no god/heaven"?

tobyrat · 08/11/2011 11:03

My DCs are not at a church school but God is mentioned. I think relatively normal. Even in the EYFS, there is a part of it about religion so at a young age children are taught about lots of religions. My 5yo seems to have had quite a lot of religious instruction already.

ZZZenAgain · 08/11/2011 11:07

seems strange to me. It does seem out of place in a secular school classroom.

malinois · 08/11/2011 11:11

ZZZ There is no such thing as a secular state school in the UK. All schools are required by law to have a daily act of Christian worship.

ZZZenAgain · 08/11/2011 11:12

outside of that daily act of worship, it is not supposed to be a secular school?

ZZZenAgain · 08/11/2011 11:13

I mean if it is not a church school, it is considered appropriate for teachers to talk about God creating man and going to heaven etc in the classroom as a given?

GrimmaTheNome · 08/11/2011 11:15

Sadly its not unusual. God is all too often presented as fact rather than teachers scrupulously adhering to the 'Some people believe....' line which is what they should do. Kids are not supposed to get religious instruction in non-faith school - they are supposed to get Religious Education -learn about it, not be taught any particular brand is true.

They also get the drip-drip of 'creator god' hymns in assembly.

Tiddler, IMO what you said to your DD 'I've said to my DD that I don't believe in God and that she has to make up her own mind about things like this' was spot on!

Fortunately (IME) it seems to change in secondary school.

bintofbohemia · 08/11/2011 11:15

I have similar issues with DS1 who is at a C of E school that seems very religious. He's come home spouting allsorts about God and how he wants to be Christened. I'm tempted to pull him out of the religious bits at school as I feel very strongly that he shouldn't be being taught about God as fact. Certainly not at the age of 5 where he believes pretty much whatever you tell him.

crazygracieuk · 08/11/2011 11:16

Very annoying.

My children (at a non-faith school) used to spout this sort of thing because of the hymns they sang and because the RE teaching did not reinforce that it's what Christians BELIEVE.

When they mentioned Christian beliefs as fact I would casually ask if the teacher was a Christian because she believed that fact. Over the years they have understood belief vs fact. As an atheist it really pisses me off that my children can't have a secular education unless I home school. If I wanted a Christian education I would have sent them to Sunday or faith school

bintofbohemia · 08/11/2011 11:17

If that's true about a daily act of worship being required I'm . Active worship of any religion has no place in school IMO. I can't believe this is still the case in this day and age. Learn about religions by all means but it's the brainwashing by stealth that irks me.

Toomanyworriedsonhere · 08/11/2011 11:19

My DCs school is a community school and has an exemption even from the daily broadly christian act of worship. They have to renew this every few years and parents are asked if they want it or not.

They are taught about all religions but not that God is a real IYSWIM.

GrimmaTheNome · 08/11/2011 11:24

bint - its true. Gobsmacking, isn't it? Schools can get an exemption, or the worship can be something other than Christianity (eg if you've got a largely Muslim intake into a community school -which happens if all the other kids go to the CofE). Most don't do this - though some fairly much ignore the rule, or redefine it to suit their needs (esp at secondary).

(if you want to try to change the situation, look at websites for Accord Coalition, British Humanist Association and National Secular Society )

Dotty342kids · 08/11/2011 11:27

This drives me mad too. My DC's are in a non church school (the only one in the area so it's not like the religious families don't have plenty of other options!) and yet they still are drip fed Christianity as fact. Yes, they get taught about other beliefs and religions too but these are seen as "other" whilst Christianity is viewed as fact.
It's all very well saying that they get taught about other religions but they don't say Jewish / buddhist / sikh prayers in assembly do they? Or sing muslim / hindu / other religion of your choosing songs?
Our kids know that we are atheists but that other people have beliefs in various religions (including one set of grandparents) and that whilst they don't have to believe the same they still need to be respectful of those that do.
You can ask to see your school's policy on religious education and collective worship though and, if you're feeling brave, it's worth putting the point to them about that collective worship being from religions other than Christianity....

lechatnoir · 08/11/2011 11:28

Same as my son's non-denominational school: - they sing hymns, say grace (thanking the lord not the dinnerladies ) have nativity, DS is pretty familiar with the bible so presumably read that too and are very much taught Christianity as fact - oh and lucky us we now get a blessing at every school event as the vicar's son attends the school so therefore the vicar is present at most events. Really pisses me off. I teach his about different beliefs & evolution but I do think it's confusing for young children especially when mummy is saying one thing & the teacher is saying another

merrymonsters · 08/11/2011 11:29

My kids are at a community school and they don't seem to have religious assemblies. I think the 'broadly Christian' thing is interpreted by some schools as talks about being nice to each other. I think I would have heard if there was any praying or hymns going on.

My kids know that quite a few of their friends go to church, but that we don't believe in what they believe in. My son once said to me 'God is everywhere', but I'm pretty sure he got that from a friend and not from school.

I think the teachers can have problems with the Christmas story. I get annoyed if my kids come out thinking that it's true and Christian parents would get annoyed if their kids came out thinking it was a fairy story. It's quite a delicate balance between the two.

I would talk to the headteacher and find out what their policy is. I would also complain about an RE teacher teaching christianity as the 'truth'.

bintofbohemia · 08/11/2011 11:34

I am really tempted to pull DS out of collective worship. But do you think it will cause trouble/mark him out as different? I'm all for them having assemblies and listening to moral stories etc etc but I don't like all the happy clappy stuff....

GrimmaTheNome · 08/11/2011 11:40

bint - I never withdrew my DD from assemblies. Its part of the life of the school, and she enjoyed singing the hymns. She was a bit astounded when - in about yr1 - she realised that most of the teachers appeared to actually believe this stuff

DD probably didn't take too much notice of all the creator god crap because we'd done lots of science museums, books etc so she was comfortable with the facts of evolution etc before ever going to school (preschoolers love dinosaurs and fossils. Its a very natural subject for them. Much easier to understand than a God!)

EdithWeston · 08/11/2011 11:44

It might be worth checking what has actually been taught. If they are doing creation stories in RE, and she was fresh out of a class covering the Christian one, then it might come out far more dogmatically than it was ever presented in by the teacher.

Would you be so concerned if she'd come home saying that it was all from the actions of a wise coyote?

Original poster

Dirtydishesmakemesad · 08/11/2011 12:33

thanks for your replies :)
I wouldnt say i am upset about it or angry i just find it almost uncomfortable because she really seems to believe what she is saying and i feel a bit cruel to turn around and say "actually thats not true" if you see what i mean!

I will try and stick to the like "well some people believe that" and hopefully as she gets older she will make her own mind up.

I may try and explain evolution to her or take her to a museum, i never thought of something like that (which is odd because my degree is in history and archaeology! so perhaps i should have raised more of an interest in my children in those subjects!.

OP posts:

GrimmaTheNome · 08/11/2011 12:37

I may try and explain evolution to her or take her to a museum

oh do! Apart from anything else I'm sure she'll love it!

JordanBaker · 08/11/2011 14:41

Our school does this-presents it as if it's fact in assembly (they do lear

JordanBaker · 08/11/2011 14:46

Sorry, hit post too early!
They do learn about other religions in RE though. I always took the 'some people believe that but I don't' approach and happily both DC decided it was a load of rubbish made their own minds up.

I did have words with the school when I found out that a Happy Clappy group were coming in and running a lunchtime club-and giving the kids sweets if they attended

OxfordGold · 08/11/2011 15:01

Yep it's normal, as in it happens...I really feel it's about time we had secular school too...mind you the Vicar is the most boring, patronising, mind numbing individual I have ever come across...I can't see her converting many children.

bintofbohemia · 08/11/2011 16:24

Dirtydishes Ooh, I did the same degree as you! Where did you go?

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