Should I speak to the teacher?

[skewiff]

DS started school in September. He's in reception.

I got called into the class room once at the beginning of term by the teacher and she told me in front of DS what he'd been in trouble for. I didn't like her manner at the time. It was bullying and she was aggressively saying to my son over and over, look at me. He was looking away at the wall.

Today the same thing happened. DS had said he didn't want to help tidy up in the morning and then said that he wouldn't put his coat on in the playground to her.

This time she was telling me what he had done and he was smiling (I am sure it was nerves and fear). She aggressively kept saying 'stop smiling, its not funny' - but he kept on smiling. Then she was bending down - again - saying look at me, look at me.

I felt so told off (even though it was DS being told off). I felt nervous and intimidated.

The trouble is she is the most experienced teacher in reception at the school. She is the one that trains the other teachers.

I want to go and speak to her and say that I didn't like the way in which she spoke to DS. And that speaking to him in that way is not the way to get the best out of him. It just puts his back up.

Am I being oversensitive?

The fact you've posted to ask if you're being oversensitive, and the fact you didn't mention his SN in the OP, suggests you're not being precious.

The teacher does sound bullying to me, purely from the fact you mentioned she said things 'aggressively'. As Snailoon said, a teacher should be able to exercise authority without aggression. Aggression is not appropriate when dealing with an adult, let alone a four year old.

Four year old boys are cheeky and defiant at times and a reception teacher of all people should know this. Although your DS was cheeky that day, as you said you have no reason to believe he always is. If the teacher has a problem I'd ask her to spit it out rather than give you 'contradictory' looks.

""conditioned out of"

yes over time - by secondary school

the kid's 4"

Thats what conditioned out of means. Tell a 4 yo to stop smiling when they have been naughty and hopefully when they are in secondary school they aren't smirking during their bollockings and adding to their troubles. I don't think anyone is really suggesting that a 4yo should have all the social skills of an older child but equally its nonsensical to not teach them these things and watch them come a cropper when all of a sudden they don't know how to behave. We tell little children things all the time that we don't expect them to consistently do because its important to consistently do them in the future.

he was smiling (I am sure it was nerves and fear).

I have one who does that, and gets told off for it, but I suppose they have to be socialised to understand how they come across, why it's socially inappropriate. Happens to me too; after my mother died I went around in public with a silly huge smile on my face for days because I was terrified of having to tell other people about it. I couldn't deal with their sympathy.

DS misses an hour of school every morning for physio at home.

Is there any way you could change his schedule so he doesn't miss school that hour? So much at school happens as part of a rhythm of events, and he misses out on the flow of things by missing that time so regularly.

I can totally understand why you want to speak to the teacher, OP, but I don't think it will be productive, she doesn't sound receptive & it's still very very early days, I think better to try to let your son & the teacher find their own balance.

How does one teach a 4yo that they should follow adult instructions as long as they aren't being asked to hurt themselves or others? Genuine question because I don't think my 3-4yos are able to make that fine judgement in the heat of emotions of there's something they don't want to do, anyway. My older children get it, but not at 3-5yo.

As a parent of a 4 year myself, I would want to be much more of a support to the teacher.

I get the impression from your posts that she doesn't feel that you have been and I was wondering if your desire to home educate is making you look for problems with main stream education and make them bigger than they actually are....to forfill your own wish to find a reason to remove him. You seemed to be waiting for him to be unhappy.

I think you need to decide to either home ed or to mainstream school him. And then you need to give your wholehearted backing.

The bottom line is, do you trust your ds' teacher? Do you trust her judgement that the instructions she is giving are for the benefit of the child or whole class/school community.

She has to make these judgements all day long for every child. Are they working to the best of their ability. Are they learning. Are they socialising. Are they safe. Are they well. Are they comfortable.

If children fail to follow the rules, this task becomes impossible.

I would suggest you either support the teacher or move your ds to a different school where he will have a different teacher. I am not sure that you would have a different outcome though.

DS always has to do things he doesn't want to do. He has had been made to do difficult things all his life. He was born not knowing that he even had a left arm or hand. So we have had to work and work to get him to use it by endlessly asking him to use it and doing all sorts of therapies.

I don't think that people with a normally developing child could imagine what he has been through.

As a result he now has much more use of his body. Also as a result we have eased off on him in other areas of his life. We had to. Otherwise we would have been controlling everything.

There were times that DS might be doing things - like climbing up something - and I would never have stopped him because it was amazing that he was actually doing the climbing.

That is why we might have been easier with DS - at times. BUT I really can't believe that other parents instruct their children all the time and never negotiate????

This is not what I observe when I see other families. And I would think that only instructing children and expecting them to obey all the time would be an undesirable way to bring up a family ...

I understand this is the way it has to be at school - but not, surely, 100% of the time at home?

My son is only 2 but I am a teacher. I do give children choices - both my own and those in school - but they are usually only 2 options and both are acceptable to me. E.g. "You can either put your coat on or you can stay inside." Or "You can either tidy up now or you can do it during ." That's what negotiation is when you're in charge (parent or teacher) and the child is 4.

Yes this is the sort of negotiating I do too. Mainly giving 2 choices. But I also give reasons for asking DS to do stuff - if he resists. He responds very well to this.

When DS was at preschool they did have difficulties getting him to do as he was told. But it was also very freeplay there so it wasn't so important.

However they found that this sort of choice stuff worked for them.

To the people who have said that I could do the hour of physio at a different time of the day: I can't. The morning is the only time that DS has the energy to do it. It is very demanding for him. I could reduce the time we take, - but he is progressing so much from the exercises it would be a detriment to his future progress and health.

School also do all their learning after lunch, not in the morning, so don't want him to be picked up early.

To give an example, one of the things my son can barely do is open his left hand.(when he actually learned to open just a tiny bit it was a miracle). He has no use of his individual fingers and no movement in his wrist at all. His brain has no way of getting his body to do these things. But with practice every day he is slowly beginning to achieve these things. It is amazing for him and us. Bare in mind we have been working on this since his birth. We have only just got to this point and if I were to slow down the process now we'd achieve less in the long run.

I have decided to speak to the teacher, and to talk to her about DS's special needs. I am going to tell her how we get him to do things, how I think his CP affects his behaviour etc

They have had no meeting with us yet about DS (the SENCO has, but not the teacher)- despite him having a statement. I have been gently asking for more info and input - but nothing has happened as of yet. So now I will insist as I know if they are having problems with his behaviour I can help. Until now they were insisting that he was doing fine in all areas of school.

I am interested that someone has said that a doctor could indicate whether DS's special needs actually do affect his behaviour and attention. I am going to look into this.

Very odd for a school to do all their learning after lunch when young children are beginning to tire

Are you sure they do all formal learning after lunch or is it just when your ds has to catch up his missed hour ? The "play" session he misses may incorporate it . Could you do a shorter session of physio in the morning and some later in the day ? I wonder if by being late every day he isn't getting a strong sense of being part of the class and how the rules and routines should apply to him. I suspect a lot of the information for the day is given at registration/circle time.

OP I don't know if you saw my previous post, but I just want to repeat that you sound incredibly reasonable, thoughtful and balanced in your approach, and the teacher seems inflexible and insensitive. I think people on here tend to think anyone who questions the teacher is being precious, which you obviously are not. The problem is how to deal with this teacher without antagonising her, and how to help your son to do the same. I have never thought it necessary to back teachers up 100%, or to tell kids school is always right.

Does your son have a statement of SEN?

Thank you Snailoon.

mrz - they do phonics after lunch. In the morning it is just freeplay and registration. It does sound odd, and is different from other schools I agree. But they have assured me that this is what they do.

DS does miss the circle time and introduction to the learning of the day. The teacher did say at the beginning that she would email this to me so I could tell him on the way to school. But this is not happening yet.

Yes - the situation is not at all ideal. However - I am trying to balance DS's school learning life with the rest of his physical learning. This is a difficult balance to find/make and will never be ideal, I suspect.

mrz - yes my son does have a statement of SEN.

Is there any reason he doesn't get his physio in school? All the children I've taught have had physio as part of their 1-1 support.

snailoon, it could be said that you are just as equally jumping to conclusions here as we are all only working on one version of the events.

That's not me saying op is in any sort of wrong here but the teacher could be coming across as inflexible simply because that's how op sees it and not because she actually is. We don't really know.

I think most people on the thread have simply been trying to help op explore her reactions in what is happening because that is what she asked us to do in her opening post.

MigratingCoconuts - you have all really helped thank you.

mrz - The senco was not keen on the school doing physio. I would rather do it as I know it will be done properly. Most of the exercises come from private practitioners as the NHS service in our area is dire.

mrz - sorry typing with one hand due to baby feeding.

DS is level D and school says there is not enough money for 1-1 support.

Well done to you and your son Skewiff for the amazing progress he's made through physio. That's a huge achievement.

I agree with you on the approach of explaining requests to children and taking their opinion into account. But many people in his life won't do this, and of course there are many situations where it's just not feasible. I sometimes did the whole nervous smiling and looking away thing as a child too - i don't think he is deliberately rude - but it's gonna be perceived as rude as he gets older, so I think you need to teach him how to behave 'graciously' when told off, and what circumstances he has to follow orders without negotiation.

If you think some of the problems are due to his SN, then definitely talk to the teacher about ways to make things easier for him. But apart from that, her authority to tell kids off needs to be respected, because otherwise there'd be chaos and no-one in the class woud be able to learn.

If he has a statement they should meet his needs and you need to ensure that is written into his statement.

I deliver exercise O/T programmes from private clinics as do the LSA who work with me.

I certainly do negotiate with my four year old son (also in reception), you are not alone, skewiff; I issue instructions and orders too.

Negotiating is a way of teaching children how to evaluate and assess information to come to their own decisions; issuing instructions is a method of disciplining them. It seems to me that recent discussion has confused this issue.

There seems to have been an assumption, skewiff, that you are choosing negotiation as a method of discipline rather than teaching him to make his own decisions. I don't think we can assume this from what you have posted, either in relation to the incidents with the teacher the op was based on or in general. Nowhere have you said that you disagreed with the teacher telling your son off; your only complaint was the manner in which the teacher told him off. As you said this was aggressive, since we were not there and have no other information, I think we have to take your word for it. Aggression is plainly inappropriate in any situation.

In general terms, you have said you issue instructions when appropriate and again, I don't think we're in any position to judge as we have no knowledge of each applicable situation. All we can recognise is that there are situations where it's appropriate to assist a child to making their own decisions and other situations where a parent needs to discipline, and assume that you are making the best call you can.

I must say I would tend to believe you are doing pretty well as there is no evidence your child is a dyed in the wool rebel or has some kind of problem with discipline,which again discussion tends to assume. Your posts only mention disobedience on one particular day and before that, one occasion at the start of the term. Apart from that you told us the teacher has not complained. She might have given you a contradictory look but she cannot complain if she does not communicate with you.

I think in any case any four year old boy, but particularly one tired from physio, will give a certain amount of chat back on the odd day. The teacher needs to deal with this in a calm manner and keep the channels of communication with you open.

Only you can tell what the teacher's tone is with you and your child but it seems to me that the problem seems to be with the teacher and her failure to communicate effectively with you and your son. Can you suggest you have a quiet word with her or if all else fails, speak to the headmaster?

MMMarmite - I understand this now. I think my viewpoint has got so lost in the long history of bringing up a son with CP. It has somehow skewed my view of the world.

mrz we have only one OT on our whole borough and they cant do any therapy as such with anyone. There is such a huge workload. All they do is make splints and give out equipment. That is what I mean by dire.

The physio service is a bit better, but my son needs OT more than physio.

I am really concerned that your son has a statement but there has been no meeting between you, his teachers and the senco since he started in september.

mrz is right, if he has a statement then the school is duty bound to meet his needs as set out in his statement.

I think you should ge in and ask for a meeting asap between all parties, to have clarity between what is his SEN needs, and what strategies are being used to meet them.

Now that I have a fuller picture I'm sorry that I was harsh so early on. I am also echoing concern that your son has a statement but you have had very few meetings. Please pursue this.