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As we are in admissions season again...some top tips for first timers

383 replies

BetsyBoop · 04/10/2011 22:08

On this thread a while ago, I posted some top tips on the admissions system, which people found useful, so here they are again...

  1. Visit every school local to you & make your own mind up - don't go on reputation/gossip/Ofsted reports/league tables
  2. Find out how likely it is you stand a chance of a place by looking at the last few years admissions (eg what category & distance)
  3. Put the schools in your genuine order or preference (schools are not allowed to operate a "first preference first" system, despite what people tell you)
  4. Use all your preferences - but be realistic about your chances of getting a place - don't waste a preference on a hell-will-freeze-over-first option.
  5. Always include one "safe" option (even if it is as last preference) which you are okay with & are pretty much guaranteed to get into (ie "catchment" school) . (Or you run the risk of getting a random "worse" school miles away if you don't get any of your preferences)
  6. You will not be able to bully the LA/school/appeals panel into giving you the school you want by only putting that school on the application form & refusing places at other schools.
  7. Read the admission code - you need to know the "rules" as if the rules are broken it gives you a valid reason to appeal.
  8. Submit any exceptional social/medical circumstances evidence with your initial application, whether or not you are fairly confident you will get a place anyway - much easier than trying to win an appeal based on this later (which will typically fail if it is an infant class size* appeal)
  • "infant class size" =YR/Y1/Y2 classes can have a maximum of 30 pupils per teacher
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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
BetsyBoop · 06/10/2011 22:51

you have mail :)

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moonstorm · 06/10/2011 22:56

Please can I ask a STOOPID question???

WHERE/ WHO do I apply to???? I have asked at bith schools near me - they looked puzzled and handed me a school form for their school. But surely there is another form where I list my preferences????? Where do I get this from??????

Confused
BetsyBoop · 06/10/2011 23:05

moonstorm - you apply to the Local Education Authority where you live (not where the school is, just in case you are near a LEA boundary). They normally have details of how to apply on their website (LEA roughly = Local Authority) - you can usually apply online or via a paper form.

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prh47bridge · 06/10/2011 23:24

moonstorm - Can I just check that you are in England? The system works differently in Scotland and Wales.

moonstorm · 06/10/2011 23:29

Thanks. Slightly unnerving that the schools didn't just tell me this...

Smile
moonstorm · 06/10/2011 23:31

Yes - in England. Only 2 schools to choose from, polar opposites in every way. Like nearest school slightly better, but my head is saying the other might be a better long-term option...

bebeballroom · 06/10/2011 23:33

Thank u betsy, will check in morning when back on a computer!

Incidentally my autocorrect wants to change betsy to nerdy!!Grin

whomovedmychocolate · 06/10/2011 23:42

It is pretty awful actually. Last year we got a letter out of the blue with a code on it and some quite complex instructions. This year, no letter, no instructions, nothing - I assume it will come about November? Who knows. Perhaps it's a cost cutting exercise that assumes if you did it for the last kid you know to do it for the next one.

AND our online admission process doesn't allow you to reuse your email address - I applied last year for DD, now I have to create ANOTHER email address just to apply for DS because apparently having more than one child who goes to school has never happened before Hmm

prh47bridge · 07/10/2011 00:19

The lack of a letter is normal. Most LAs don't send out letters because they can't reliably identify all the parents who should be applying for places. The thinking is that they could be in trouble if they miss a few so it is safer not to notify anyone.

As for your LA's online applications system, that is appalling. They really ought to be able to sort this out. It isn't difficult.

Stokey38 · 07/10/2011 07:05

This is all really great stuff. Can someone explain to me about deferring a place. DD will 4.3 next September which I think seems quite young so we were thinking of deferring her place until the following January. Do we need to apply as normal and then let the school know or are we not able to do this with all schools?

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 07:16

stokey AFAIK you apply as normal and then when you get your offer you specify the intended start date.

BetsyBoop · 07/10/2011 08:13

Stokey - yes you must apply as normal. All schools (assuming you are in England?) have to allow you to defer entry and/or do part time hours (although some are more obstructive supportive than others!)

"Incidentally my autocorrect wants to change betsy to nerdy!!"
Bebe have I and your autocorrect met before? It seems to know me well Grin

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PrincessScrumpy · 07/10/2011 08:25

Where do I find admission figures?

My 3 closest schools are all great but all oversubscribed - no chance of a safe option unless I choose a rubbish school miles away. What are my chances of getting one of the three? My catchment school is 2 miles away (closer as the crow flies but can't walk across the airfield!) so I wanted to put 2 other schools first and second - one I can walk to and one I can get a bus to - do they take this into account? The catchment school would mean driving as it includes hills too.

hester · 07/10/2011 08:44

This is a really useful thread - all sympathies to those who are going through this, as I did last year.

Just to emphasise, ladies, because I was very slightly surprised at those who haven't started yet (but maybe that's because I'm in London, where parents are in hysterics about admissions from the point of weaning): get your skates on! The deadline is even earlier than January in some areas - in my borough it's December - and if you missed it you're up the chuff.

Also, allow plenty of time for researching your options and the admissions criteria: they vary markedly, and you have to read the smallprint. Many local authorities publish information on who got in last year, and how far away they lived - some schools, particularly in urban areas, take in children from a shockingly small area. (I was told by the head of my nearest primary school that I lived too far away to have a good chance of getting in - I lived just 0.2 miles away. He was wrong - I did get in - but people in my road didn't.) But be aware of what can change from year to year. In my area there is a general shortage of places, and all the primaries take turns to have a bulge class each year - it rotates around between four schools. We were lucky enough to move into the area in the spring and get a place at an excellent local school - in fact, some people moved in just weeks before term started and got a place. But the next year the bulge class was elsewhere, and people living in my road who had applied on time were denied places.

Understand that the right of appeal is really limited. You have to show that the process has been applied wrongly, not that insufficient account has been taken of your family's convenience. The council doesn't care about your family's convenience, sadly. And they interpret exceptional social and medical need very tightly. Again, in my case, I was in the position of adopting a baby just before school started, and facing the possibility of having to take her on four bus journeys a day, just as she was trying to settle into her new home. I thought, as looked after children are so high in the admissions criteria, that was worth bringing to their attention. But the council was only interested in the school-going child being Looked After - they wouldn't even consider the needs of a Looked After sibling.

Finally, a cautionary tale with a happy ending. I had a lovely mummy friend in my previous area (inner London, very oversubscribed schools) who was intensely casual about the whole schools thing. There was a very good faith school near us. She didn't go to church but her dp reckoned they would get a place because he had been there as a child. I said to her a couple of times that the admission criteria doesn't include 'dad having been there' (maybe at Eton; certainly not at a state school!) but she chose to believe him and didn't apply for any other schools. Result: no school place. Even then, she was fully confident that they would win a place on appeal. I asked her what her grounds for appeal was, pointing out that she had been treated fairly according to the admissions criteria. She said, basically, "I'm going to tell them they should give us a place because dp went there". Result: no school place. BUT in the end they were allocated a place in a school that had been in special measures but is now on the way up. I wouldn't have even considered sending my child there, but actually it is a lovely school and he is doing well there. As others have said, even if you don't get the school you want, you may come to find that it all works out in the end.

hester · 07/10/2011 08:45

PrincessScrumpy - no, the council don't take into account how difficult it would be for you to make the journey to school. Infurating for those of us who haven't the option of driving, but that's how it is.

drcrab · 07/10/2011 08:57

culturemix thanks for replying. Sorry been on work to London got back late.

We hope to move by end October or early November so hope that's good enough for the application. Am going to check out one school on Monday. Have already checked out the catholic one and then it'll be the one nearest our new house.

Hope all goes well for everyone!

NomDePC · 07/10/2011 08:58

Just to say, it's not just the newbies like me who struggle with this whole process. If it makes you feel any better, a friend of mine completely missed the admissions deadline last year with her THIRD child (just kind of forgot about it, I think). Got her DD into her preferred school eventually, but it was no easy process...

ThePathanKhansWoman · 07/10/2011 09:01

Still more great advice coming in. A few quick question for those who have been before.

  1. How much notice did YOU take of OFSTED reports?
  1. Did you go on gut feeling?
  1. At the open days, what should we ask? what should we look for?

Many thanks, your all very generous to answer our questions, i spoke to some mummy friends at Nursery yesterday, and they are panicked as well, so i don't feel quite so aloneSmile.

MegBusset · 07/10/2011 09:26

I would say on open days look for small details that give away the ethos of the school. Eg one school which was considered very desirable, I noticed had shelves in the library marked 'Books for boys' (all blue and actiony) and 'Books for girls' (pink and princessy, natch) and that put me right off it!

Peetle · 07/10/2011 09:31

Our twins have just started reception in a lovely school that's frankly a bit too far away and appears to be run by the Gestapo, but that's off topic.

My advice is: 1) do your visits now. Applications have to be in during January and you want to be comfortable with your choices.
2) Fill all your choices on the form. If you don't you risk being sent to an unpopular school the other side of the borough if you don't get your first choice.
3) It's the Education Authorities not the schools that make the choices these days, so sucking up to the teachers/governors won't help.
4) In our area you need to spend 2 years pretending to have an imaginary friend if you want to get into your local faith school. Those "toddler friendly" services are there for a reason and they're popular, so you've missed the boat for next year. (ours go 1.5 miles away rather than 200 yards as we wouldn't play this game).

PrincessScrumpy · 07/10/2011 09:43

hester the only reason I ask is because the form asks how you will travel to each school. Seems an odd question if it's not relevant. I thought it might be some environmentally friendly policy to get everyone walking. I'm not too bothered about driving as I have 3 dc so it's easier tbh but my main concern is that all three are oversubscribed.

Peetle we're Christian so happy for dd to go to a faith school but we are CofE - a friend suggested that the Catholic school is very good so we should apply to get her in there - not a chance, no way do I want dd to be instilled with Catholic faith as I disagree with so much of it. Completely agree you shouldn't play the game. dh did suggest moving house (how we'd do it by January deadline I don't know) but even catchment kids aren't getting into the school we really like (we are now out of catchment by 50 meters for that school!).

prh47bridge · 07/10/2011 09:58

PrincessScrumpy - Admission figures should be in your council's admissions booklet which will be on their website. As Hester says, they don't take the difficulty of the journey into account. The idea is to make the admissions process as objective as possible, avoiding subjective judgements such as the relative difficulty of various journeys. Check carefully how your council measure distance. Some measure straight line distance, others go for the shortest walking route. That could make a significant difference in your case.

hester - Your LA is not allowed to set a December deadline. If they have done so parents should kick up a fuss. The government has set the national closing date for Primary School applications as 15th January. The LA does not have the power to set a different date. It used to be the case that every LA set its own date but that is no longer true.

I would also add that your chances of success with a primary school admissions appeal depend on the way classes are arranged in infants (Reception, Y1 and Y2). Most primary schools have 30 children per class in at least one or two of these years. That means an admission appeal would be heard under infant class size rules and, as Hester says, you can only win if a mistake was made in the admissions process and your child should have been offered a place. However, some schools run with smaller classes which means an appeal is easier to win. In that case you don't have to show that a mistake has been made, just that the case to admit your child outweighs the problems the school will have in coping with an additional pupil. Even then, however, things like transport difficulties, child care problems and inconvenience to the family don't make a good case.

prh47bridge · 07/10/2011 10:01

PrincessScrumpy - That question sounds like the council trying to show how green they are and possibly getting early warning of which parents are likely to need free transport. It certainly shouldn't affect the admissions process.

headfairy · 07/10/2011 11:17

Prh how do you know if a mistake has been made in admissions when considering whether to appeal? I know friends who've appealed their school allocation based on needs of the child, ie one friend of mine successfully appealed because her ds has hearing issues and the school they wanted had a specialist hearing impaired teacher. However, I would have no such recourse as fortunately my ds is perfectly healthy. My only grounds for appeal would be that I want my ds to go to a particular school, so I'd have to examine the admissions process to see if they'd made a mistake. But how on earth do I even find out if a mistake has been made?

BetsyBoop · 07/10/2011 11:43

headfairy - details of why you didn't get a place would be on the letter that you receive.

Eg "you didn't get a place because you live 1.2km away, the last child to be admitted in category 4 lived 0.9km away."

So you can either go "yes that's right" bugger or "hang on a minute, we live 0.5km away/should have been in category 2" etc.

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