Growing number of children 'don't know their own name' when starting school

[mrz]

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8668117/Growing-number-of-children-dont-know-their-own-name-when-starting-school.html

DD1's name is N-- but when she was eighteen months old or so she absolutely insisted to everybody that her name was Beautiful N---. Nothing really to do with the article but it still makes me smile!

@ MRZ: Oh right, fair enough; culture clash. Where I grew up we had 24 hour TV (dozens of channels worth) by the mid 1970s.

My dad entered school in 1947 not speaking properly. Which can't be blamed on TV, although you could maybe throw social deprivation/twin-ness/& teenage mom into the picture. I have a strong hunch that minor SN like his weren't even correctly recorded back then (statistically no record of it).

ragged it isn't about not speaking properly it's about not having the vocabulary to communicate because no one has spent time talking to them. This isn't SN this is "normal" children who have failed to learn something because they haven't had the experience ... no one has used their name.
When our nursery staff do home visits they give out books of rhymes and stories because many parents don't know them so they can't share them with their child. Unfortunately some parents (a minority) just don't talk to their child. They listen to their ipod and they text but they don't communicate dirrectly.

Echo what MRZ says - whole sets of words and experience can be missing.

In one of my reception classes there were several children who had no concept of how to spread (e.g. butter), for example. Think of all of the things you spread - pizza sauce on dough, icing on cakes or biscuits, butter and spread on bread, syrup on crepes, etc. The whole experience was just missing - not that they did it badly or messily or were unkeen - just that given a knife, some bread and some butter and asked and shown to "spread please" and they had no idea what that concept was. I should add that none of these children were from cultures where the food might not include this so much, they had just clearly never been anywhere near the food preparation process.

I've had lots of parents complain because I've given their child a knife and fork to eat with as they use a spoon or fingers at home ... sorry but you don't eat mash with fingers!

I once had a mum explain that her son who was about to start reception could only count in Spanish and knew his colours in German ... he'd learnt from Sky!

I complained because school made my DD wear a napkin on an elastic round her neck and eat food that was cut up for her when she was perfectly able to use a napkin on her knee (and hence not wipe her fingers down her front) and cut up her own food with a knife and fork. Aged 3.10.

I suspect many children of MNetters could do that also Bonsoir, whilst shucking a live oyster and reading a set menu.
But there are some children out there that lack basic knowledge, and haven't got a clue about very simple skills.
Like what a hairbrush was for, that food came on plates rather than segmented plastic trays and that sometimes people want a response when they speak to you.

Saying how barbaric children are becoming has been going on since the Ancient Greeks!

I read this article as the latest iteration of that - with the extreme communication problems of a few (don't get me wrong, I'm not complacent about that - I mean only the scare story aspect) being today's "shock horror" tagline (it was not knowing how to use a knife and fork recently).

They're not barbaric, just rather sad and confused.

' Oi, you little shit'
'Come here, you'
Or the grab and drag technique.

That sort of thing.

ThePathanKhansWoman Fri 29-Jul-11 15:26:28
This is so sad. Custardo why would only parents in receipt of certain benefit

be in need of parenting classes? .Surely poor parenting isn't confined to

those on benefits?.

--

no its not, but you cant make people with money do anything - c'mon we all know that

touche.

absolutely ridiculous claim

Based on your years of experience as a teacher in severely deprived areas, lawnimp?
Or are you just harrumphing in our general direction?

I'm sorry about your experiences custardo that's really rough. Have to say I've experience similar prejudice - because I was a young single mum (it's catching don't you know...) no one would give me the time of day when I voiced concerns that DS1 had SN. They thought he must just be stupid. Now I'm articulate and intelligent, but because I was also young and on my own, he couldn't possibly be bright with SN! Like you, I got things sorted in the end, but it makes my blood boil just thinking about it now!

When our son started nursery (okay 3 not 5 of school age), he could not pronounce his surname. (I'll admit it's a stupidly difficult surname, that colleagues struggle with on a daily basis!!)

He's known by an abbreviation of his long Christian name. So we explained to nursery that for writing we would like him to learn how to write his full Christian name, and understand the abbreviation, and that is what we would be doing at home with him.

We would say our surname, and get him used to the sound, but we didn't get him to write it, and he wasn't used to seeing it written down (as for example the labels on his peg and drawer at nursery were just first name same as all children).

He finally learnt to pronounce and write his surname by the end of reception.

But he could understand it if someone said it to him, from a young age.

This required concentrated effort by us, so can see if parents can't be bothered to do this and the child doesn't go to nursery how it can be a problem.

I live in a high deprivation area and I have never once met a child who doesn't know his or her name. They ALL know their names and each other's names by the time they 'go out to play' which is usually by the time they are 4.

How are you supposed to distinguish your three year old from the hordes of other 3 year olds playing out if you don't call their name?

Deprived children almost ALWAYS have siblings, usually more than one, so how do you single one out for a bollocking if you never say their name?

I don't think this is the sign of very very poor families, very poor families HAVE to talk, or at least bellow, because there isn't much else to do. Next door to me is a family SO poor and SO bad at handling money that the SS keep stepping in with food baskets - but their child is verbal to the point of verbose, because all her parents can afford to do with her is chatter. She doesn't watch DVD's, she hasn't got any. They have friends round, they drink cheap squash, and they chatter. She knows her full name, and address, and how to ask me for an ice pole - she's 2!

And custy, I had a similar problem getting Ds1 seen - "Does he watch a lot of TV?" Ummm yes, because he screams and bites himself FOR THE RESTOF THE DAY if I turn it off mid programme

"Do you speak to him?" ALl the time, but he won't look at me, and doesn't respond in any way

Duh, red flag much?????

He has ASD

I'm a teacher and SENCO and was told by my son's EP that I was a neurotic single mother ... 10 years later we got a diagnosis

I've heard about a boy starting school who would only respond to 'boy' , not his name. At home he was only ever referred to as 'the boy'. Ive also heard stories of children (more than 1or2) who start school not knowing any colours or the number 1. Apparently some dcs cant tell which way up a book goes or that you turn the pages from the right or that the pages connect together to form a story. And this is in Scotland where dcs dont start school until 4.5-5.5.

A headteacher told me she just wished that dcs came to school knowing what 'no' meabs as clearly some of them dont get told it at home.

When ds started school we were told to make sure they didnt wear a shirt and tie or laced shoes on a gym day as the teacher didnt have time to do it for all of them. But now you have 9yos who still cant do either.

Ds also said that school dinners are deliberatly made so they dont need a knife and fork to eat them, it's all finger and spoon food.

One of ds's friends doesnt know his house (door) number. There are huge gaps in this generation's basic knowledge and they are going to leave school unemployable in a few years.

Absolutely shocking. It makes me wonder if (I hope I'm wrong) at that age a first name is key to being able to think about yourself and who you are in relation to other people and failure to have learned your name means you may be into much, much bigger problems in relating to others and functioning in society later on in life?

I agree with Colditz's points.

I think the Telegraph tends to pander to tendencies to make sweeping generalisations about "the poor".

I don't know any 4 year olds that don't know their names and I live on a council estate

I don't believe a word of that article tbh