Parents becoming teachers? Is it me or has Gove totally lost it?

[sogrownup]

How do you feel about going into school to cover for a teacher who is on strike? Is there anyone out there who believes that this is a sound idea.... I think it's madness!!

Any primary school teacher who claims that they have hours of marking is at best fibbing, and at worst failing.

I see. Because 30 x pieces of writing, at least twice a week, 30 pieces of Maths, 5 times a week, 30 x Science work, 30 x tables tests, 30 x History/Geography/RE per week all fit very neatly into the slot between 3.30 and 5pm, which may or may not be already earmarked for one weekly staff meeting, at least one meeting with a parent, one governors' meeting, phone calls with outside agencies/to arrange trips, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Yes. My mistake.

You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about, you smug idiot.

Please tell me your occupation, so I can explain to you how you aren't doing it properly and how to organise your time more efficiently? It would be about as relevant to this discussion as your ludicrous comments.

Everyone can and should.
I consider it my absolute moral duty to do everything humanly possible to support my children's school.

If one teases apart an average week, the amount of time spent on core skills is frighteningly small. Many teachers veer towards undemanding 'child centred' learning which is pointless.

My ds has spent weeks 'exploring' volume of liquids.
It doesn't mean he gets it. He didn't.
I sat him down this afternnon sand talked him through the basics.
1000ml in a litre.
Er.....
That's it.

I don't blame the teachers. They are put under pressure to chirn out this shite.

It's an embarrassment and a disgrace.

Is that your week Feenie?
Are you doing written tables tests once a week?
Where are you teaching?
I'll be over.

Or alternatively, you could come and do my marking yourself. And properly please - not one tick and shut the book, I want a postive comment and a next step for improvement in every book, at least for the core subjects.

MsInterpret - although my children are bright, sociable and well behaved, not even I think they an improve a failing school by their mere presence. I am not going to risk their education in a failing school either. They don't get a second chance.

Agree with some of the current system being shite, moondog. So do many teachers.

That said, my experience of what goes on inside a state primary is clearly very different to yours - so it does clearly depend also on the individual school/Head/staff.

With respect moondog, - and i expect you're paraphrasing the conversation you ahd with your DS - I'd argue that without some exploration of actual liquids alongside learning the hard facts, you DS will have very little understanding of what 1000ml actually means or looks like.

I'm not saying spend weeks on it. I'm saying exploratory learning can be valuable and has a place.

It's a typical week of marking. I'm not complaining, just addressing the notion that anyone who says it does not take hours must be lying.

See, we have a lot of Feenies, I think...

Eli, I see many great schools and great teachers.
I'm not talking about them though.
I'm talking about the below par ones which are more prevalent in my own experience.

moondog - your comment to feenie illustrates a lot of the problem of disagreement here. Obviously, we are all talking from our own experience, but that experience diverges WIDELY.

Ms, indeed.
The point is that when it takes over swathes of time, one must truly question what is the point or purpose of the exercise.

He 'explores' liquids on average...ooooh, 10-15 times a day at home.
Milk, apple juice, teeth cleaning, kettle filling, floor mopping.

I am not happy with schools spending time on things my kids do in the course of a normal day.

MS,yes.
That's what's known as a discussion.

Because 30 x pieces of writing, at least twice a week

Not to mention it is not just a matter of MARKING them any more. In the school I worked in we used a version of AFL which meant you had to go through the work highlighting all the occasions where the work had met the learning criteria/target. THEN you had to write an encouraging comment at the bottom ("well done, you have shown you know how to use speech marks correctly") and a learning target ("next time, could you try writing legibly, so I can read the sodding thing rather than having to work it out letter by letter"). It can take 10 minutes to get through a single piece of written work.

Well, FWIW, if everywhere had dedicated involved parents like you, moondog, and staff and HTs like ours, we'd have a cracking state system in spite of the blinking state

Feenie, what age kids do you have?
How many?

How come you are donig all of this marking?
I've never experienced another teacher doing so.
I am intrigued.

THEN WHY DO I GET TENS OF CVs LAND ON MY DOORMAT EVERY MONTH THAT ARE FULL OF COMPLETE SHITE??!!!!!

If you are all so great?!

It's fairly standard in Y5 and Y6, and has been inspected and expected by Ofsted for years. I teach Y5 at the moment.

To RobF -'Please tell me your occupation, so I can explain to you how you aren't doing it properly and how to organise your time more efficiently? It would be about as relevant to this discussion as your ludicrous comments'.

I'll second that. Only an idiot would presume to a. know anything about b. set standards for work he has not personally trained for and done.

The problems with school standards is the centralisation of learning standards and the utter, pointless obsession with management terminology and 'outputs'. All utter crap borrowed from the oh-so-virtuous private sector and thrown at our unsuspecting children so that parents can get to feel a bit more like 'consumers' when they read the League Tables and tut a lot when they see words like 'failing'.

moondog - Pretty much EVERY teacher has to mark all the children's books regularly. They should all do it, but I must confess I do know of one or two who skimp. And indeed caused great problems at my schools last Ofsted because of the poor standard of their marking.

I teach Y5 and 6 and Feenie's description of marking is spot on.

But, to argue the point just a little further, if I may... Does he have the structure of learning the facts alongside the exploration? Isn't it sometimes only in school (unless parents are out with the measuring jugs at teeth cleaning time!) that they are tied together?

Perhaps not in your household which is supportive of learning. But some experiences that we take for granted happening at home sadly, do not happen in many homes. Isn't it the job of school to provide them for those children?

I have no idea! We teach children to read and write, yet some of the teacher applications I have to read for shortlisting are dire. Several candidates using a lower case 'i' to refer to themselves, for example.

Nunsoqueer what job do you do?

The answer is obvious anyway. The best teachers have already got the jobs they want, unless they're having to relocate etc.

I have to say though, that shite recent-graduate CVs are hardly exclusive to teachers. The legal profession has long been complaining about poor grammar and massive sense of entitlement in new trainees, etc. A cultural disease encouraged by the creeping destruction of our education system.

NunSoQueer - perhaps because some children have parents who completely fail to support schools and teachers, leading them to believe that school is unimportant and the teachers are not worthy of any respect. And that the teaching is so poor it is worthless?

Just a suggestion....