Superstitious crap-peddling in non-church school, how to deal with it?

[SpringchickenGoldBrass]

DS (6, in Year 1) came home from school today talking about what he's going to give up for Lent. I asked him if he understood why he was supposed to be giving up things for Lent (of course he had no idea) and made sure he knew that he didn't have to and I would be doing no such thing, and we had a little talk about superstitions.
I am seriously pissed off with this and want to speak to the school about it. We live in a very multicultural area and I want to know A) if all the 6 year old Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews and whatever else are trotting home stuffed with this crap and if not, how can I get DS exempt from it? Just because we are English does not mean we are CofE, I am a hardline atheist and DS dad and I have been raising him with as little superstition as possible.
I do not think it's appropriate for a group of culturally-mixed 6 year olds to be fed this sort of bullshit (which is going to be beyond most of them anyway) - I have no problem with DC being taught about the various mythology brands but the actual practicing of this nonsense should not be suggested to them at school.

The idea of religious organisations presenting their faith as truth is repellent. They should not be allowed to get away with it. They certainly shouldn't be allowed anywhere near kids.

I don't find faith frightening, except when it verges into condemnation and extremism. But I send my children to school to be educated, not to receive religious instruction/indoctrination. Small children do tend to believe what their teachers tell them, and it isn't terribly helpful to contradict them (although dh did say that dd's teacher was talking "a lot of fetid dingos kidneys" when dd appeared to be saying that her teacher didn't accept evolution.

I want my children to learn about belief systems and to understand different festivals and how other people think. I don't want them to be told how to think.

My belief system is obviously influenced by being brought up by Catholic/Anglican parents, but it doesn't include a god, either in terms of belief or non-belief - it's not really a useful approach to talk about believing there isn't a god. It would be more accurate to say that I don't have faith, and unlike those who do believe, my lack of faith has no impact on my life, whereas for my big sister her faith is totally at the centre of her life and influences everything she does.

Faith in a non-faith school is not frightening.

It is misplaced, annoying, and needs to go. It seems a lot of non-faith schools like to slip in a nice bit of Christianity (aside from the DAoW) when they think that they can get away with it. The idea that it doesn't matter, it's no big deal, usually comes from Christians, who probably wouldn't feel the same way about another religion being taught as fact to their children.

You don't know me iphone!
I am afraid that a parent who is so adamant would have me wanting to explore religion to see what they were so against. I have never, even from a young age, been at all happy with 'because I say so'.
It can be used as an interesting point of discussion. You have no idea what your DC will think when they make up their own mind, they may well be looking for a spiritual side. As a parent, you make decions for your own belief system and you are very misguided if you think you can decide for your DC.
I am glad to say that my DCs are like me and question everything, so I am am not at all worried that they will be influenced by others and pleased that if they had a parent who is so adamant they would be bloody minded enough to take the opposite view-which I think is very healthy when you have a parent who seems determined to know best, and gets upset about a school assembly!

You have chosen a non denominational school-there are no secular UK state schools.

Right

Firstly, most six year olds repeat what they have heard as true.

When I was at primary svchool, we had some people visiting who told us the story of rama and Sita, and then let us all prance around in the hall in old saris.

i was thrilled, mainly because my mother believed in unisex clothes for children AND i HAD NEVER SEEN ANYTHING SO PINK!

So I went home and told my mother all about how I was a hindu now, and must be bought the right clothes to wear.

my parents, staunch atheists, stomped up the the school in a high dudgeon. Was it not enough to have hymns to contend with, they asked, without training children to believe in ALL religions?

But the truth was, the Hindu group had told us a LOVELY story (and it wa, it was a shadow puppet show that I still remember 25 years later) and LET US WEAR BEAUTIFUL SILKY PRETTY GORGEOUS DRESSES! And that is what stuck in my head. If only, I thought, if only I was a Hindu. I coud wear them ALL THE TIME, FOR SCHOOL AS WELL!!!!!!!!

wITH MY CHILDREN, WHEN THEY COME HOME TRUMPETING THINGS THAT FRANKLY SOUND UNLIKELY, i PREACH OCCAMS RAZOR.

Pffthemagicdragon - it's not just that they think they can get away with it, it is that they are legally obliged to do it. If a headteacher doesn't feel comfortable leading their school in collective worship, some just don't do it (but they do get pulled up by OFSTED) some invite in vicars and evangelical groups that specialise in 'schoolswork'.

I think it is fine for clerics to come on to talk about what they do (and firefighters, and politicians etc..) but they should speak about facts. That means they shouldn't say god is....and they shouldn't say Christians believe..... (because they don't know and there is a lot of diversity). They can say my job is...I wear...at church we do....this is a story from the bible that we read...I believe....

COLDITZ

I can't think of one single time that mine have told me anything about a school assembly-had I asked I think they would have forgotten. If I had started to get upset about talk of Lent (something that everyone should know as General Knowledge)then they may have paid more attention-something that upsets mum is far more exciting than they thought!

DOn't worry, I don't rant at DS about superstition. I just explain to him about the various collated myths that make up big festivals like Christmas and Easter and that different people believe different things. But the big problem I have with this crap being peddled to DC is wanting to be sure that the crap peddlers stop short of spiking the mix with sexism and homophobia (or indeed racism) or trying to frighten the DC into accepting and placating the imaginary friends. Nice-wooly-ANglican-vicar-from-up-the-road is almost certainly harmless but the average UK-raised nominally Christian agnostic tends to fondly believe that all CofE teaching in non-church schools is going to be like this (the default position seems to be, well it's Christianity, what harm could it do?) when, as one or two other threads on here have shown, some of the Christian crap peddlers who visit schools are peddling nastier stuff.

I thing CRIB or whoever they are sound very dodgy but there isn't a problem with mainstream religion.

I was thinking just now -does one single assembly from my school days stand out? I couldn't come up with a single memorable occasion. I would imagine that most people are the same-unless something funny happened or really different-they are forgotten. However, if had a parent who makes a big fuss about it, I would certainly have paid more attention to find out what it was that worried them! Why were they scared by it?

Much wiser to just ignore it or, if they mention something, use it as a basis for discussion.

I always think it is wisest to do your own thing, children are inclined to do as you do and not do as you say.

I always think it strange that so many people on here disagree with their own parents (and are often in all out war with PIL!) and yet they seem to have the view that their own DCs will agree with them.

think not thing

exotic I'm going to show my age here, but there are only two school assemblies that I remember from my full 12 years at an Anglican school in S Africa:

(1) our piano teacher playing the theme tune to McGyver as we processed out at the end of an assembly (we all thought she was THE. BEES. KNEES for that), and

2)receiving a prize from head teacher for music only for her to whisper menacingly through her forced smile as I accepted my award that I needed to go straight to her office afterwards to discuss my behaviour at a recent school function

I agree, the innocuous behaviour (like discussing Lent) just doesn't stick. More "traumatic" instruction (like the threats of going to hell someone else was talking about) I'd have a big problem with.

I agree-but despite school assemblies, and being sent to Sunday School for about 8 yrs, no one ever mentioned hell. It is all fairly innocuous and if they didn't mention it in my day I don't see why they would in these more questioning times.

If someone goes into school bible bashing and talking of Hell you need to go in and question. Explaining Lent is hardly in the same league and it is quite a good idea for a child to deny themselves something and give the money saved to charity-there is nothing wrong with the concept and no one is saying they have to do it-or even that they ought to do it-it is merely an option they might like to consider.

Himalaya - I am aware of the daily act of worship, referenced it in my post and said it was an exception and that I was not referring to it.

SGB - I think the way to be sure, is to try to have a dialogue with the school so that they understand your point of view. Your POV is fair enough - you don't want him taking part in religion, and you want to be sure that visiting religious people are being sensitive to the multi-faith and non-faith spread of the school.

But, much as I enjoy our heated debates, I think you'll get a lot further in that discussion if you word things a bit differently to what you do on here. I've got used to your use of terms like "imaginary friends" and "superstition" and understand the reasoning behind them, so I don't instantly feel offended by them any more. But if you leap into that sort of wording with the school, the chances are you will put people's backs up so far that they'll not be able to get past the offence to discuss the important point, and will just chalk up your comments as "been in her bonnet" rather than "actually that's a valid point and we need to be aware of the possible issues".

bee in her bonnet, even....

Good advice, but I'd be willing to take a small bet SGB knows that already .

Do any of us talk IRL the same way we might on MN?

I don't talk on MN in the same way I would in RL, but I do find that I'm starting to think in social network/forum style bytes (good grief, that is extremely worrying!)

DS seems to have forgotten about it pretty much, though he did ask me the other day what people do in a church when they go there (this presumably having more to do with the fact that we were passing one at the time than anything else.) My response was, of course, that they sing special songs and listen to stories and that not everyone does it.

Seems a pretty good response SGB, terribly boring-whereas talking about 'imaginary friends-superstition' etc makes it sound exciting.

People have the right to withdraw their DC from collective worship.

I did a little bit about Lent this week but only because I was sick of them saying "Pancake Day". I did keep starting the sentences with "Christians believe..." but I'm not convinced all of the different parts of the stories/traditions etc went in, despite repeating it lots of times and asking them to say it back to me.
Is it possible that he forgot some of it? Particularly the bit that says that he doesn't have to do it, especially if he's not a Christian? If it was a visiting speaker he probably only said it once.

Pfft - sorry I missed the accronym. Still though I'm not sure I understand the distinction ( unless you mean if you withdraw them from DAOW?)

does anyone do that here? It seems like an unsatisfactory solution.

panzee - how can you confidently say 'christians believe' though...? A lot of Christians believe and disbelieve a lot of different things. Some of the least beleiving ones are vicars I'm told.

The one thing I remember from assembly in primary school was being told the story of Monkey over several weeks. It was riveting!