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Original poster

Superstitious crap-peddling in non-church school, how to deal with it?

537 replies

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 09/03/2011 15:44

DS (6, in Year 1) came home from school today talking about what he's going to give up for Lent. I asked him if he understood why he was supposed to be giving up things for Lent (of course he had no idea) and made sure he knew that he didn't have to and I would be doing no such thing, and we had a little talk about superstitions.
I am seriously pissed off with this and want to speak to the school about it. We live in a very multicultural area and I want to know A) if all the 6 year old Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews and whatever else are trotting home stuffed with this crap and if not, how can I get DS exempt from it? Just because we are English does not mean we are CofE, I am a hardline atheist and DS dad and I have been raising him with as little superstition as possible.
I do not think it's appropriate for a group of culturally-mixed 6 year olds to be fed this sort of bullshit (which is going to be beyond most of them anyway) - I have no problem with DC being taught about the various mythology brands but the actual practicing of this nonsense should not be suggested to them at school.

OP posts:
Original poster
SpringchickenGoldBrass · 09/03/2011 16:32

2pinkmonkeys: I already said I have no problem with DS learning about the various myth systems, I just don';t want him being told he has to participate in the rituals or identify himself as a member of any particular sect.

OP posts:
GrimmaTheNome · 09/03/2011 16:33

but whay shouldnt children learn about religion?
Isnt it healthy that they learn about the world they live in and what different belifes people have?

the OP specifically said 'I have no problem with DC being taught about the various mythology brands ' (which is her characteristic description of 'religion')

Learning about it is entirely different to actually participating in a religious practice.

There's a whole thread about RE teaching at the moment...

GoldenGreen · 09/03/2011 16:33

same thing happened to me today, SGB. Ds is 4 and was chatting to me about Jesus today and why did he have to die on a cross. I chose his school on the basis that it is NON religious and there are three highly sought after religious schools nearby so I naturally assumed we would be exempt from this.

2pinkmonkeys the reason I am upset is because when they did learn about Diwali last year the teachers were sure to talk about what "some people believe" and of course that is fine. When it comes to Christian stuff it is presented differently ie as absolute truth. Ds loves his teacher and believes everything she says. Obviously I can say to him "well some people believe this but most of the world doesn't" but I encourage him to listen to his teacher for everything else so it's giving mixed messages.

OopsDoneItAgain · 09/03/2011 16:33

ivykaty - you think they should be able to avoid all mention of religion to enable them to 'who they want to be'?

what if they would have chosen to be religious given the choice, but never had that choice?

meditrina · 09/03/2011 16:37

Giving something up per se during Lententide is not part of the Christian faith. So you are right that this is talking about tradition/superstition rather than faith.

Perhaps you should request that RE sticks more closely to discussions the faiths (all if them) in that part of the curriculum?

2pinkmonkeys · 09/03/2011 16:38

i very much doubt that they told the children they must give up something for lent, most likely they told them that some people do and her DC thought that maybe he would for no other reason that he thought that it was a good idea, they like to put into practice what they have learned in school and there is no harm in that.

MadameSin · 09/03/2011 16:39

SGB & others ...... it's built into the National Curriculum that schools deliver a 'Christian' based assembly ... take it up with the LEA if it really offends you ... seriously, you should

meditrina · 09/03/2011 16:39

BTW, do you also want them to remove the traditional/superstitious of other faith based calendar events such as Mothering Sunday, Easter and Christmas too, leaving them also for RE?

mrz · 09/03/2011 16:39

I very much doubt anyone has told him he has to give up anything for Lent. I told my class some people give up things they like for 40 days (did the whole Jesus tempted by devil reason) and two boys informed me they are giving up school ...seems fair Grin

halfcaffodils · 09/03/2011 16:42

I am an atheist myself, so is dh, and I was brought up in a mixed atheist/casually Christian family. My mum has since become much more active in the church and there is a little bit of tension with the dc about belief in God - I guess it's just confusing for them knowing Granny's beliefs and mine/dh's.
They go to a non-church school but there are links with a local church. I do not feel there is any indoctrination going on, they are not allowed to do that.
I would be delighted if my dc came home talking of giving something up for Lent for the benefit of others, e.g. putting sweetie money in a charity box, giving up some 'idle time' to help around the house, or even just give up some tooth-rotting sweets and snacks for the sake of it! I don't generally give things up for Lent but I know lots of non-religious people (and a Jewish friend) who do- it's more of a tradition like Easter and Christmas celebrations. You may think of religion in general as 'myth system' or 'superstition' (to me that means if you do or don't do this, then this will happen), but I don't think this applies to Lent in general society. I just can't see how it would do any harm, tbh.

2pinkmonkeys · 09/03/2011 16:43

meditrina thats a very good point about christmas after all it is a christian festival. They must not celebrate it as tehy woukldnt wnat to impose christain beliefs on their children.

ivykaty44 · 09/03/2011 16:46

Hmm was Jesus Christ really born on 25 December?

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/03/2011 16:47

Xmas the way we celebrate it these days is not Xtian at all, it's Saturnalian/pagan. What have fir trees to do with Christ?

OliPolly · 09/03/2011 16:48

I also doubt that he was 'told' to give up something for Lent.

as a side note, Do you celebrate Christmas? Is your son excluded from nativity plays etc?

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/03/2011 16:48

And Easter is also based on ancient rebirthing myths; spring is here and all that. (Bunnies - fertility - eggs) Even the date is based on astrological calculations.

meditrina · 09/03/2011 16:49

No, and he probably didn't die on a different date each year either. But it's rather beside the point as these festivals were adopted as the Christian ones on that calendar.

You could celebrate Yule instead, I suppose.

2pinkmonkeys · 09/03/2011 16:52

perhaps not but it is a christian festival. when christianity was brought to europe they made chritmas on the day of the pagan festival of the the feast of the son of isis so that the pagans would more easily accept the new religion. jesus was most likely born some time in septemeber, but the date doesnt matter. We celebrate christmas because of jesus' birth, if chriatianity did not exist neither would christmas.

ivykaty44 · 09/03/2011 16:52

4 full moons after equinox my dear I celebrate spring arriving. Christians imposed their religious date over the top of another calendar

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/03/2011 16:54

Xmas wouldn't exist, but a bloody big blowout would. We like our midwinter festivals in the frozen north. Grin

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 09/03/2011 16:54

Cromwell abolished Xmas.

ivykaty44 · 09/03/2011 16:55

Yeah and look what happened to him

AMumInScotland · 09/03/2011 16:55

SGB - the tricky thing with 6yo is to get them to explain what the adult actually said, and not what they heard. It is possible that the vicar said it in terms of "Some people give up something for Lent. What would you give up?" to start a discussion. That doesn't mean he said "You have to give something up", although the difference to a 6yo is probably not visible.

OTOH it is possible that the vicar doesn't always word things as carefully as he could, because he assumes they understand he's a representative of one religion and is therefore talking about it. Clergy (even ones who go into schools) don't always realise how small children take the things that adults say in a school context.

2plus2more · 09/03/2011 16:56

I sincerely hope your kids won't be eating any easter eggs then in a few weeks SGB - couldn't have them associating with something which is a clear symbol of the stone being rolled away from Christ's grave. I hope too they don't sing Christmas carols, participate in Christmas plays, give or receive Christmas gifts, dress up for Halloween, draw fireworks pictures for Diwali etc... etc...

meditrina · 09/03/2011 16:58

And remember Mothering Sunday. Do you want that out of schools too on the grounds that it's also at origin a Christian observance?

NoWayNoHow · 09/03/2011 17:01

Springchicken, haven't read the read of the thread, so apologies if this has all been mentioned before.

I worked at a nursery in an extremely multicultural area, and in that nursery, we talked the children about Lent/Chinese New Year/Diwali/Christmas/etc/etc.

It's not about indoctrinating children into a particular "superstition" (btw, that's a really insulting way to talk about what other people may hold as their core faith) - it's about ensuring that our chilren grow up to be people with a good knowledge and understanding of the world. It's also about teaching tolerance of the beliefs of others - maybe you instead of railing on the teacher, you could ask her if you could sit in one day? Grin

YABU