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Original poster

Superstitious crap-peddling in non-church school, how to deal with it?

537 replies

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 09/03/2011 15:44

DS (6, in Year 1) came home from school today talking about what he's going to give up for Lent. I asked him if he understood why he was supposed to be giving up things for Lent (of course he had no idea) and made sure he knew that he didn't have to and I would be doing no such thing, and we had a little talk about superstitions.
I am seriously pissed off with this and want to speak to the school about it. We live in a very multicultural area and I want to know A) if all the 6 year old Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews and whatever else are trotting home stuffed with this crap and if not, how can I get DS exempt from it? Just because we are English does not mean we are CofE, I am a hardline atheist and DS dad and I have been raising him with as little superstition as possible.
I do not think it's appropriate for a group of culturally-mixed 6 year olds to be fed this sort of bullshit (which is going to be beyond most of them anyway) - I have no problem with DC being taught about the various mythology brands but the actual practicing of this nonsense should not be suggested to them at school.

OP posts:
PfftTheMagicDragon · 10/03/2011 17:45

IVY _ referring to your latest post. Was trying to read what you have posted, but it's not clear.

GrimmaTheNome · 10/03/2011 17:47

it really does sound like this was just an information share

It sounds to me like it was a very poor 'information share' - "I asked him if he understood why he was supposed to be giving up things for Lent (of course he had no idea)" which resulted in the OPs DS getting the impression he was meant to actually do something. Maybe 'indoctrination' would be too strong a term - but what can we call getting kids to participate in a religious practice with no understanding?

TBH I'd probably have been more Hmm than Angry but it doesn't seem an appropriate use of school time.

Lonnie · 10/03/2011 18:32

Obviously I have missed quite a discussion here and OP I understand to have posted about somethings like this before? Anyway my experience

I am a Lutherean Protestant my children are christened in this faith. My husband was raised a baptist but is now a non believer (agnostic - not ahetist) the kids go to a CofE church school many reasons but the main one was when we moved down here the other local schools didnt have the space for all of our oldest 3 we after some debate decided to go with the Cof E school though we are both in agreement that we do not agree with religion and schooling being mixed.

Tuesday the kids came home full of what they were to give up for Lent. dh was home and it provided quite a huge discussion.... I took it to the school teachers reminded each that we were not CofE and that because of this we would not be giving anything up for lent. that was all I did a gentle reminder because it is about being respectful towards other faiths. I have the right to take my child out of RE bu I dont feel the need to do so. I do however want the school to respect our indivudial faith as a family.

OP that is to me what you are talking about you want respect for " your" belief and I do not have a problem with that.. But please when you speak with your ds about what the priest says remember to say it is what the priest "believes" not what He thinks.. they are not the same things. (yes I am aware this could simply be what you put down)

It is important for all children to understand about religion. As for Lent.. I will as usual give up Liver (cant stand the stuff) when any asks me.. so much easier than the whole debate..

Tortington · 10/03/2011 18:35

op are you sure this was something he was taught and not something he got off his mates?

donnie · 10/03/2011 18:36

Oh dear. I just knew this was you SGB from the thread title.

Still a narrow minded little bigot I see! how nice for your ds.

ninah · 10/03/2011 18:39

I have a similar unease, although we are in a church school, so prepared for a certain amount of religious input. It is our local village school, which is why we attend. Recently the religious input has cranked up markedly, with children (from Reception up) having their foreheads ashed for Lent, a chaplain appointed, coloured altar cloths in each classroom ...
Now, I have to accept I signed up for some religious input, but this seems ott ...

donnie · 10/03/2011 18:40

describing all religion and people's deeply held faiths as "superstitious crap" is so, sooo offensive. And reveals your bigotry and small mindedness.

GrimmaTheNome · 10/03/2011 18:57

In this particular case, though Donnie, giving a child the notion he's supposed to 'give something up for lent' without him having any idea why looks rather more like promoting a superstition than anything to do with 'deeply held faith'

mrsravelstein · 10/03/2011 19:08

well i imagine that people who believe in clairvoyants/tarot readings etc also find it offensive that it's dismissed as superstition, but if you're going to be offended by people who don't believe in god, you must spend a lot of time being upset.

exoticfruits · 10/03/2011 19:08

DCs will work out their own beliefs! Of course 5 and 6 yr olds find it interesting-especially if they come from a home with no religious beliefs-it is new and exciting. They soon grow past the stage.
They start with 'my mummy says', move on to Miss Smith(or similar) says' and eventually realise they are all nothing more than opinions and form their own.

UnquietDad · 10/03/2011 19:26

I've never read anything which adequately and objectively makes the difference between what people call "faith" and what they call "superstition". Basically it seems to boil down to "well, mine is faith, theirs is just superstition."

hocuspontas · 10/03/2011 19:32

Perhaps it's the big buildings that give them superiority?

Himalaya · 10/03/2011 19:46

Donnie - a liitle way up this thread Dillydaydreaming said that a priest was talking out of his arse for sharing his deeply held faith based beliefs with children. She called it claptrap. Was she being a small minded bigot too?

The belief in question was that they will go to Hell if not baptised.

That's the problem with deeply held faith, tthere is really no reason to respect one fantastical supernatural claim and dismiss another.

iPhoneDrone · 10/03/2011 19:49

I would like to see the ratio of vicars visiting 'non' church schools and representatives of other religions visiting.

I know that in our non church school the vicar comes in once a week and does an assembly. She also sits on the board of governors. No other religious representatives have to my knowledge been invited in to talk to the children.

I find 'broadly Christian' assembly's to be very divisive to be honest. In a multi-cultural school which includes non-believers and given that the vast majority of society do not attend church it is ridiculously outdated. They would be better off using the time to discuss our roles in society, inclusiveness and looking out for your fellow humans without the hope of some prize at the end.

What a load of rot.

Also it is fucking patronising telling the OP to 'calm down'

Himalaya · 10/03/2011 19:52

Lonnie - I am interested in your distinction between 'think' and 'believe' - I see how you can think something without believing it.
But how do you believe something without thinking it?

hocuspontas · 10/03/2011 19:55

When Lonnie said 'what He thinks' I think she meant 'what ds thinks'. Otherwise I agree - it doesn't make sense!

ivykaty44 · 10/03/2011 20:26

The assumption is that to you there is a God - to me there is nothing, so how do I not believe in nothing? so you and other people that believe in Gods keep telling me I don't believe God - whereas I think there is nothing.

I don't think the opposite of you.

I am not wonderful in writing it down, so hope that gets it across clearer and still being tolerant of you

Original poster
SpringchickenGoldBrass · 10/03/2011 22:20

As UQD said, no one has ever been able to come up with any kind of reasoning as to why belief in the christian stories should be taken any more - or less - seriously than belief in tarot cards, homeopathy, the tooth fairy or father christmas.
I'm not bothered by DS believing in Father Christmas, as it happens. I suppose I should be treating all the other imaginary friends the same way and he will grow out of them all at the same time.

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 10/03/2011 22:29

It isn't really worth bothering about what your DCs will think-in the end it isn't up to you. They will decide for themselves. Making it into some big deal makes it very attractive to them!

Northernlurker · 10/03/2011 22:36

I never understand why if it's all such a nonsense superstition, it is also so very, very frightening and threatening to parents like SGB.
So you disagree with what he's been told - ok says so then move on. If you actually want him to make his own choices then you need to pipe down and let him find his own way through whatever comes his way.

exoticfruits · 10/03/2011 22:42

Exactly Northernlurker. People seem frightened; it isn't a big deal-it generally passes over DCs heads or it is a passing phase. Have a discussion with DCs, they are old enough at 5yrs to be philosophical. A parent who is so vehement makes DCs want to do the opposite.

iPhoneDrone · 10/03/2011 23:20

Its frightening because Santa Claus isn't responsible for centuries of war/misogyny/homophobia/a general plight on the face of the earth.

I DO NOT want my child to even slightly be partaking in any kind of religious observance.

It is utterly unfair on children when they are a captive audience in assembly to have this crap foisted on them.

iPhoneDrone · 10/03/2011 23:21

"A parent who is so vehement makes DCs want to do the opposite"

I don't find this true at all. I don't think kids are contrary just for the sake of it.

NoWayNoHow · 10/03/2011 23:23

iPhone you've clearly never met my DS!! Grin

GrimmaTheNome · 10/03/2011 23:26

Its not 'frightening'Hmm

Its annoying. And, if you've chosen a non-faith school, an unecessary annoyance.

I don't know, but I'd guess SGB saves her vehemence for MN - the tone someone uses to vent here is almost certainly not the same as one uses IRL with a child.