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Primary education

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Original poster

Superstitious crap-peddling in non-church school, how to deal with it?

537 replies

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 09/03/2011 15:44

DS (6, in Year 1) came home from school today talking about what he's going to give up for Lent. I asked him if he understood why he was supposed to be giving up things for Lent (of course he had no idea) and made sure he knew that he didn't have to and I would be doing no such thing, and we had a little talk about superstitions.
I am seriously pissed off with this and want to speak to the school about it. We live in a very multicultural area and I want to know A) if all the 6 year old Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jews and whatever else are trotting home stuffed with this crap and if not, how can I get DS exempt from it? Just because we are English does not mean we are CofE, I am a hardline atheist and DS dad and I have been raising him with as little superstition as possible.
I do not think it's appropriate for a group of culturally-mixed 6 year olds to be fed this sort of bullshit (which is going to be beyond most of them anyway) - I have no problem with DC being taught about the various mythology brands but the actual practicing of this nonsense should not be suggested to them at school.

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 12/03/2011 18:47

Quite honestly a primary school teacher will not tell them the above colditz! The primary school teacher is quite likely to be an atheist themselves.
You can't teach it as fiction/myth -you don't know that it is! I have yet to find someone who can give me proof that God doesn't exist-in the same way they can't give me proof that he does.
Going to Hell must have died out in about 1870!
It should be taught as many people have a faith-they believe xyz
It is up to the DC to work out for themselves what they think-and it isn't what mummy and daddy think or sir thinks or Rev Smith thinks.

Bluehair · 12/03/2011 18:55

Do primary teachers say to kids...this is what x believes and what y believes but you have to make up your own mind on what you believe...it would be refreshing to think they did.

Original poster
SpringchickenGoldBrass · 12/03/2011 19:06

Religion is bullshit and no one can prove otherwise. However, I have every respect for people's right to believe bullshit and engage in the pointless rituals of their choice. I just have no respect for the bullshit and no intention of taking it seriously or allowing people to interfere with my life and behaviour on the grounds that their imaginary friend says they can/should.
Basically it is very important to be able to condemn superstition publicly. People's imaginary friends should not be their get-out-of-jail-free cards when it comes to annoying or harming others. The people who make the biggest fuss about wanting legal protection for their superstitions ie blasphemy laws, are usually the ones who are up to no good (like abusing women and children or fiddling their taxes) and want to silece their critics.

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 12/03/2011 19:08

It wouldn't matter if you did teach religion as myth or fiction though - as those that beleive will still beleive and those that don't will learn about religion and can then make up there own minds. No need to have proof of something/god to teach it as fiction/myth.

Exoctic I didn't say that a secular school would teach in such a way - I asked if you would be ok with that style of teaching that religion is dubious, would you be ok with that style of teaching religion is dubious?

For me it wouldn't be an ok style to teach

exoticfruits · 12/03/2011 19:13

I wouldn't be OK teaching that it was dubious! I think that it should be taught that this is what Muslims believe etc and treated with respect.
I don't honestly believe that primary school teachers care what the DCs believe -faith is a purely private matter for everyone. They deliver the curriculum.(

Bluehair · 12/03/2011 19:26

But what if your dc gets a Christian Teacher - surely they do care what your dc believes, their religion tells them to care and given that is supposed to be more important than anything else, surely they will be trying to spread the word?

exoticfruits · 12/03/2011 19:27

Complain to the school colditz. I wouldn't say it was general and CRIB-whoever they are seem very dubious to me.-the 'not christened bit' went out with the Victorians!

exoticfruits · 12/03/2011 19:29

I think that there are plenty of Christians who are very private. I am a Christian,but not keen on organised religion and very put off by anyone 'spreading the word'. Even C of E schools can't insist on C of E staff these days, the way they used to.

colditz · 12/03/2011 19:30

This isn't one school, exoticfruits, it's many schools. This is out of a list of about 400 that I put through the MN search engine. It's too many.

Bunbaker · 12/03/2011 19:39

Oh creep back into your hole SpringchickenGoldBrass. When you grow up perhaps you will learn a little respect for other people. You are hoisting yourself by your own petard by spouting the bullshit that you do. Calling religion bullshit just shows that you just have no respect or tolerance.

If it bothers you so much why not ask for your child to be excluded from any kind of religious discussions. Your child will thank you for being singled out in later years.

TheCrackFox · 12/03/2011 19:43

Why do you get so riled that it is called a superstition?

Presumably if you believe then that is enough? You probably think we will all burn in hell too. How is that for tolerance?

electra · 12/03/2011 19:49

Whatever your views and feelings about stuff your children will hear all about the beliefs of others (whether religious or not) and it's up to them to make up their own minds. Otherwise this becomes about your feelings and what you want rather than allowing your ds to form his own decisions.

One example, I do not perpetuate the Father Christmas myth because I don't like it. However, my dd has decided she wants to believe in him anyway. And my response to that has always been 'well I think this, other people think that and it's up to you what you believe'.

NormanTebbit · 12/03/2011 19:51

Of course you can't prove God doesn't exist. All you can say is that based on fact, this is what I know. And for that you need evidence. And reason. Why did God make me an atheist? Or am I evil? Is it ok that all my children go yo heaven but I don't? Won't they miss me?

I value religion in that it contains many interesting philosophical ideas, it informs cultures and helps us understand thr past and the present. Yes teach 'RE, it is so valuable, and while you're there teach philosophy, have a look at Hume's Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion or psychological theories about wYs of humans look for patterns and order and religious belief is an exstention of that.

I truly believe that if you took away faith schools in Glasgow and taught this sort of critical thinking about religious faith then there would less bigotry.

And maybe church attendance would fall, but that's not the state's problem.

NormanTebbit · 12/03/2011 19:54

'Extension'

MistyValley · 12/03/2011 19:56

Agree with NormanTebbit. And SCSGB - if you look at what she is saying (rather than be offended by the way she's saying it) it does actually make perfect sense.

Having thought about it a bit more, I do think it's offensive for a school to take someone's child and try to instil in them a belief system that isn't one their parents subscribe to.

electra · 12/03/2011 19:59

Well actually I don't think talking about giving stuff up for lent equates with instilling beliefs in a child. I know people who give stuff up for lent who aren't particularly Christian (not practicing anyway....)

droves · 12/03/2011 20:00

SGB i once sent dd2 to school with a letter asking her to be excused Religious education class. I requested that she be allowed to do maths instead .
Mainly because we are a non -religious family .

I do not believe in god/gods/goddesses /omipressent beings ect, so i do not want my children to be told a god exist. They are taught to be kind people. and too accept others have beliefs they dont share .

The school wrote back , saying unless i could provide proof that my children were muslim OR JW , that they would not be excused R.E.

Again i requested that dd2 be excused , because i would prefer if she was taught facts rather than fiction.I likened god to santa , and fairys at the bottom of the garden. Foot note in letter said we believe in evolution , so perhaps a few lessons on darwin would do the trick ?.

The head phoned .They won . Sad
..... dd2 has mysteriously gained qualifications in religious educations , despite refusing to actually do R.E. (Pleased to say her maths improved loads).
She spent the time doing homework instead.

Did GOD sit her R.E exams ?Hmm
( i think it was the RE teacher who filled in the exam papers ,Shock ).

i was brought up catholic....have arthritic knees.

Bunbaker · 12/03/2011 20:05

It is calling religion bullshit that I mind about so much. It is patronising and downright rude. The superstition element doesn't really bother me.

What I would like to know is why some people are so vehemently against the idea of religion. What are you afraid of? If it is just mythical nonsense then you have nothing to fear.

I don't know that God exists, no-one does. Believing in God and practising a religion is a private and personal thing. I don't agree with evangelism. I just prefer to hope that everyone can accept that some people believe and some don't. End of.

TheCrackFox · 12/03/2011 20:06

"Believing in God and practising a religion is a private and personal thing"

Why is it even in school then? Confused

Bunbaker · 12/03/2011 20:19

"Why is it even in school then?"

Touche. Although having said that, how are children to learn about religion if their parents are anti religion?

droves · 12/03/2011 20:19

Crack fox GOD knows ???? pmsl Grin

littleducks · 12/03/2011 20:22

LOL at God filling in droves dd's exam paper

electra · 12/03/2011 20:27

'What are you afraid of?'

Indeed......I'd be angry if my children were encouraged to have prejudices at school. If they heard racist views from other people I would do everything I could do to make sure they didn't adopt them and would be as outraged as the OP. But the anger about this issue I don't understand.

exoticfruits · 12/03/2011 20:31

'I don't know that God exists, no-one does. Believing in God and practising a religion is a private and personal thing. I don't agree with evangelism. I just prefer to hope that everyone can accept that some people believe and some don't. End of.'

I agree-and that is what I want for my children. They need to know about religions in order to make up their own minds. I certainly don't want it 'because I say so'. Parents think they are all powerful, but DCs grow up despite them. Electra's DD is a girl after my own heart!

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