Why do all the naughty kids get awards in assembly?

[daffodilsinspring]

" Do I need to be naughty to get a certificate?"
Asked by friends DD (aged 5)

Anyone else had that experience?

So would you include my DS in that opinion princessparty?

ALL the children in my DS's school get rewarded - the good ones more richly than the less well behaved ones. And no - it shouldn't take much intelligence to work out that if you want good behaviour then you need to reward it for ALL children. And if the "naughty" ones need a certificate (whatever) to help them on the path then so be it.

My concern woukd be thick parents who cannot work that out for themselves.

It always seems to me that the bright, bossy, loud, in your face type girls who point out what they have achieved get rewards - along with the naughty, loud and lazy boys.

The above has also been my experience, having had so far one of each temperament go through - my DD1 is bright bossy, loud in your face and always get prizes/rewards/certificates and has always done. My DS1 is extremely hard working, quiet, small and no trouble and never gets any. And this is in the same school!

He doesn't mind but I have noticed it (and so has he). Mind you, it tends to be the same at work, so maybe it is preparation for real life

When DD was 8 she came home from school one day and volunteered the fact that she wouldn't get a 'Star of the Week' award in assembly as she wasn't naughty enough . She then went on to say that she and a group of her friends did not want to get a 'Star of the Week' award because everybody would think she was naughty .

Months later I informally mentioned this to the HT when in a formal interview regarding an entirely different matter. Her response was that bad behaviour needed to be publically awarded whereas those well behaved children got to visit the HT in her office which was reward in itself! DD never got to visit the HT office.

Recently was chatting with a friend of DD, now 11. She, and many others have now moved schools. She was remembering that just before she left she and a TA were chatting about this in a class one day. She sighed and exclaimed that she was sick and tired of never getting any praise for getting things right and working really hard when those who constantly messed around in class "were taken to a local coffee shop for a cake" (during lesson time btw) as reward for not messing around in class for a day. Can you believe it? As far as understand, almost all of those well behaved kids have now moved schools leaving a very small class of pretty much uncontrollable kids who are obviously working the 'reward' system.

"It always seems to me that the bright, bossy, loud, in your face type girls who point out what they have achieved get rewards - along with the naughty, loud and lazy boys."

Completely agree. DS1 is academically average and very well behaved so as far as his school is concerned he may as well be invisible.

As far as understand, almost all of those well behaved kids have now moved schools leaving a very small class of pretty much uncontrollable kids who are obviously working the 'reward' system.

Are you seriously suggesting that parents en masse withdrew their children from a school simply because they felt the awarding of some certificates and privileges was unfair?

Dillydaydreaming's comment is seconded.

My dts1 is bullied occasionally by one of these little gobsh*tes. In their school, whenever anything is done where people have to be picked it is always this child and his entourage.

He is one of those kids brought up to believe they are so wonderful that everyone else exists to serve them. My rather sensitive, artistic dts1 is easy prey to them. It is heartbreaking to watch. Dts2 is more robust and is in the other P5 class where the children are more normal.

His dad does a sport, and this boy has of course excelled at that sport. Dts1 is not at all sporty. He gets first choice in all of the sporting activities and as a result dts1 has become more and more withdrawn as he doesn't want to participate where this boy is in charge. The school had a tennis tournament last year, dts1 really enjoyed learning but was partnered with the boy for this tournament. The boy did everything to ensure dts1 stood at the back and did nothing and when the ball went anywhere near dts1 the boy would shout and wave his racquet around. Dts1, went from wanting to learn to play further to not wanting to as "x says I'm stupid and can't do it."

It takes me ages to get him not to feel bad about himself after one of these episodes. The most recent was when he was told by one of the entourage "my worst day was when you were born." Doesn't make sense but dts1 is thankfully growing a tougher skin and just laughed it off.

OP, your dd is spot on. These kids exist and she will unfortunately have to get used to a lifetime of these awful people! It is best just to ignore them, to learn not to let it get to her and then simply get on with things.

My children fall at each end of the behaviour spectrum. dd enjoys school, loves her teachers, works hard and is always very helpful. ds on the other hand finds basic school requirements such as sitting still, doing what he is told when he is told, getting on with people etc considerably harder.

In general I'd say that the reward system used by their primary school worked pretty well. Some things were turn based (ds still treasures his Star of the Month card with all it's nice comments by his class mates several years later), others effort based and some more to do with achievements and actions.

I've had more conciliatory conversations with ds about how dd gets better grades because she works harder, and better achievement type grades because she behaves in the way that school likes than I ever had with dd about why ds has got a sticker or award for doing things she wouldn't think twice about.

ds has also have way more sanctions than dd has ever had, and they have much more impact on his life (visits to the head, missing playtimes etc), but perhaps they are fairly invisible to most children, or too much outside of their frame of reference?

2and1ontheway - if this why they're doing this then there will be none of today's children working in local government and other parts of the public sector. There you work hard and do a good job because you care, no other reason. No performance related pay or promotions, no bonuses. I think it is very bad training to make children think they should only work hard if there is a tangible reward other than pride and a job well done.

afaics every child gets 2 achievement awards in assembly each school year.
It is particularly important that the ones who find it hard to behave as expected and needed get much affiration when they do, and have the experience of being publicly praised rather than the ongoing pariah. It gives them a glimpse of a vision that they could be someone everyone approves of, instead of the child everyone ignores, tells off or hates. Confidence to try harder and do better, rather than be trapped in a self-fulfillling prophcy of bad behaviour and poor results.

DS's achivement awards have a most ludicrous array of acclaim - 'for great underarm bowling' etc. (he is well behaved and achieving as he should)

I have only read the first and last page of this thread.

To the OP, I've had that experience with my dd1.

I had a long, long chat with dd1 about these certificates. I won't go into details, although dd1 is now OK about it all and is no longer bothered about this certificate business.

I agree with gaelicsheep on this issue. I too think it is very bad training to make children think they should only work hard if there is a tangible reward other than pride and a job well done.

More persoanl post, not my approach to teaching.

When I was 9 the 'naughty' girl of the class tormented me for months. She threw paint, stuck compasses and pencils in me, and I still have a scar on my little finger from when she 'mistook' my finger for a pencil and put it in one of those stand alone vice sharpeners. She was told off frequently when spotted (I tried to be stoic otherwise), but never praised for not misbehaving. I eventually flipped and hit her with a clock, but it was HER who moved classes and excluded for a bit.

If she'd stopped stabbing me because she'd been told that if she did so she would get a personal tour of Disney Land and Disdney World, as much chocolate as she could eat, and a private performance by Adam Ant and Bros, paid for by the LA, I wouldn't have given a crap.

Lol this has just come up with my DS as well. He is very unbothered and definitely has the rewards are for naughty kids but good kids have a better time mindset.

Some devil possessed me though when chatting to one of his teachers and I said that every week I sat him down when the list came out and gave him a good telling off about how disappointed I was in him and his poor behaviour. That I told him to behave EXACTLY the same as X and Y and I hoped that soon he would begin to change his behaviour in class.

There was a sharp intake of breath and several low no no nos..... before I showed I was joking

My ds is naturally good, I'm naturally bad - and deserve a certificate!

Most half terms at least one of my children get an award or certificate and they are not naughty as a rule.

I think this has happened in the past in schools but we are addressing it. Our management team made a decision that for most of our rewards if you are someone whose behaviour prevents others from learning ( aside from SEN issues and to be honest they are managed in such a way that it is not an issue in this case) you will not receive a reward. Very black and white.

Isn't it rather telling that they have to come up with criteria for who will NOT receive an award? What a load of codswallop it all is. I am truly dreading DS starting primary school.

In my experience I have found that if a child is consistently good ALL the time they get no rewards for it as it probably isn't even noticed.

DD1 is always good, never had a sharp word from a teacher or any kind of punishment however small, but she has never had a card from the head praising her. I have been to her friends' houses and seen loads of them displayed so I know other children are getting them (and they are mentioned in the School Rewards document).

I do mind a tiny bit but I'd rather have her as she is than get 100 of those cards. She doesn't seem to mind or notice as far as I know.

PMSL at cinnamonswirls. Genius.

GaelicsheepI teach secondary. You do sometimes get students who excel at something but they manage to also disrupt people's learning. Or you may get a student who gets merit points in their practical subjects but then messes around in maths and english. They would then not receive a public school reward. I don't see what is codswallop out of not wanting to make role models out of badly behaved students.

Megapixels that has been my experience in some schools my children have atteneded but I think it is changing. I do think however that children should not be rewarded simply for being good. That should be expected.

"or the very clever ones"

Actually constantly rewarding the very clever ones annoys me more. They already 'got lucky' in life's lottery, do they need still more and more positive affirmation?

Happy to see 'naughty' children who have achieved some milestone rewarded, happy to see the clever ones rewarded sometimes (just not all the bloody time!!!), would like to see the teachers get a bit more creative in finding ways to acknowledge the plodders and Joe Average occasionally

I have 3 at primary and my oldest wins loads of prizes and mentions. He is bright, loud , popular and an expert at staying on the right side of the school rules. Dd is equally bright and popular but very shy and rarely wins prizes. Ds2 is quiet, well behaved and academically average but often overlooked too. He's in Reception and has won a certificate once while others have had a handful. He has also noticed that the naughty ones get a certificate for being good for a bit while others try hard to be good all of the time. He's not talking about sen children either.

Adela - no, not for reward issue reasons (if it read that way then apologies) but for teaching and learning issues and incompetent leadership and management of which behavioural issues and classroom control was a contributory factor. What I was trying to illustrate (wholly unsuccessfully it would appear ) is that the kids at that school were/are aware themselves of the significance of such award certificates and surely that can only be a bad thing.

Really glad to see this post as I thought it was just me being a stressy mum worrying that there wasn't enough positive encouragement in my children's school.

I have one DT who finds it all easy and is flying through Y1. She has recently had class bear (about 20th in the class) and has never had a certificate. Even though she is very well behaved, is very keen and does some excellent work.

My other DT is also very well behaved, never in trouble but has found Y1 much more of a struggle and finds some of the work hard. She is middle of the class but has so little confidence in herself. I asked the teacher to boost her confidence and she agreed she needed that (back in Autumn). She still hasn't had class bear, never had a certificate and is generally jaded and assumes you have to be one of the disruptive ones to get rewards.

It has really got to me recently that all the focus seems to be on the poorly behaved children and those in the middle are passed by.

I am really looking forward to parents evening next week and raising my concerns!

Just completed reading the thread and what amazes me isho w different many of your experiences of the reward system have been. Is there not some sort of guidance surrounding this for ht's and their staff to follow? It would appear not. As a parent, had I not had torrid teaching experiences at dc first primary then I (and they) would know no better. I have now experienced 2 completely different attitudes to reward giving. Now hard work and great achievement gets genuinely rewarded and the loveliest thing to see in the playground is when those who have behavioural issues (and there are not that many now - down to the teaching maybe?) get awarded they burst into the playground to show their parents with such pride as they know they have earned their reward and not the other way around.