Why do all the naughty kids get awards in assembly?

[daffodilsinspring]

" Do I need to be naughty to get a certificate?"
Asked by friends DD (aged 5)

Anyone else had that experience?

Maybe all the moaning minnies could take the mature approach and explain to their children that some children do need a bit more help/encouragement/support than others, and that it is really important to be kind and good whether you are getting rewards=ed with a certificate or not. Just a suggestion.

I obviously wasn't clear. Of course if someone achieves something amazing they get a certificate. But if I don't monitor myself I find that some children would get far more certifciates than others and, like some posters say, children notice these things and feel left out / undervalued. I can't hold all that information in my brain, so my list makes sure no one is left out.

You are very lucky if you children don't receive (many) certificates - because you want to bring up children who are intrinsically motivated rather than extrinsically motivated. Ie if they only behave well in the hope that they will get a certificate, then they are being extrinsically motivated and chances are it will backfire. However if they 'behave' for no reward, but purely because that is how you act at school, then that will last them a lifetime....

My DD is in the middle of the class in terms of her ability, and I do often feel that she gets overlooked, although in fairness, her school seem to be quite fair about giving out certificates, and all the kids seem to get them equally.

For her, I have seen a massive improvement of late in her reading and spelling, and she has made a brilliant effort in other areas too - but I feel that she tends to get passed by for things, as she is neither demanding or top of the class.

I don't make an issue of it as she's happy and healthy, so that's what I try to be content with, otherwise I'd do my own head in!

DD is in secondary and this week was taken aside by her form teacher and told her standards are slipping. She has 2 marks on her expectation card, a 3rd one means a detention. Her form teacher has told her that if she gets a det he will give her another one on top.

She says it's not fair because there are others who get dets all the time. I said take it as a compliment, he obviously has very high expectations of you.

At DCs primary they all got "special mentions" quite regularly. For trying hard at work or taking an interest. DD got one for working well with others. She got this because she was the only one willing to work with a boy who is a pain, no SEN, just naughty.

Bruffin, your DD sounds like a sweetheart. Sometimes that boy is my DS2 (your post has brought tears to my eyes and I am sat in a full carriage of people on the train) .

We had a meeting with the Head Teacher a couple of weeks back and she talked about a similar scenario. His teacher had asked if someone would sit next to him and all the kids were hesitant, anyway one of the girls finally put their hand up and said she would and DS wad so grateful, he patted her back and said thank you - it meant a lot to him.

I'm not moaning, its just an observation. My ds's school does applaud the very clever children (quite right too) and the 'naughty' ones are encouraged with their behaviour (also quite right too). Sometimes the children in between fall through the gaps and that can leave them de-motivated. He tries hard, especially in things he struggles with (maths) but has never got a certificate or to bring the bear home etc. He's 5 years old and they all need a bit of motivation you know.

Thank bellavita, I am very proud of her. She can be an absolute pain herself but she has the lovliest heart as well.

Charlieboo

My DS was one of those who seemed to fall through the gap when he was younger. He was quiet and well behaved in class. It had got to the end of the year and he never bought the bear home, so I had a word. At scouts he never got to carry the flag at church even though he went to the services more than any others. Never took Hissing Sid the pack mascot home either in two years. He did get certificates at school every so often.

It all changed when he went to secondary and seemed to get everything. House Captain, School prizes, chosen to photographed in school prospectus etc

Children are being praised all the time in class. There are housepoints to be won. There is golden time to be earnt. The weekly certificate is a minor part of the equation - some children are always going to miss out during the year.

The SEN children who need them have their own behaiviour charts in the classroom, with short-term targets.

My dd, who is 6, seems already to assume that everyone gets a go at being star of the week and is therefore fairly unimpressed when it's 'her turn'. (That's because she's a jaded Yr 1 pupil - in Reception it was a big deal!)
They also have Wow cards for when they make a personal special achievement and a cumulative points system with prizes when you reach certain levels (more for behavior I think), so it does seem like they're all coming home with something pretty regularly.

I was asked by a child in my class when it was her turn to be "writer of the week" and was shocked to discover that it didn't work that way

Unknown to most of our pupils, who only focus on why they have or haven't got a reward in a limited timeframe, we do manage to ensure that everyone gets rewarded for something fairly regularly (I even have a list). Obviously, what we reward depends on the child. We can't give writing stars of the week to reception children who still eat pencils, but we can give them a reward for effort or encouragement when they sit still and try.

There's also an important learning lesson for the children in recognising others' needs and talents, in accepting that achievement varies not only in area (art or maths) but also in relation to the person. It makes them just a little bit less egocentric.

Mind you, I couldn't help chuckle when one YR3 pupil I know out of school told me he was bound to win something at Sports Day because he had volunteered to be in a team with someone suffering from CP and another who couldn't walk. He'd got how balancing the playing field might work sussed rather too well.

Mind you, we don't give child of the week stickers. What a silly idea-you should be rewarded for something, not for being.

Our weekly golden certificates are solely for keeping golden rules, so children can get these several times, and it is based on their behaviour and hard work during the week.

In the same assembly, we have a Forest School squirrel that we give to children who have done something amazing at Forest School as well.

"Unknown to most of our pupils, who only focus on why they have or haven't got a reward in a limited timeframe, we do manage to ensure that everyone gets rewarded for something fairly regularly (I even have a list)."

When exactly did it become necessary to bribe children to behave/work hard?

Actually I take that back. Someone mentioned housepoints, which took me back to my school days. I guess I'm a merit marks/housepoints v order marks/detentions kind of gal.

It does seem that these days rewards need to be bigger and more visible in order to work. Not to mention that ever present instant gratification.

"When exactly did it become necessary to bribe children to behave/work hard"

I might say because we are now mean to focus on their future economic contributions, measured by making them work hard so that they can be bribed more for working hard.

Less sneeringly, it is not bribery-it is recognition. Nobody is working hard to get a certificate, but they are getting a certificate for working hard. Surely the difference is obvious?

There's also a point about meeting children's needs. What use would it be to give someone performing comfortably within their capabilities a reward every week for doing so? They need to be encouraged to develop, not just stand still because they happen to be top of a particular pile at a particular point.

". The children are not getting their certificate for being badly behaved after all but for complying with whatever the school wants them to do. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence should be able to work that out for themselves.''

Any child with a modicum of intelligence can see that naughty kids 'play the system' like a violin!
Only be good occasionally and always get rewarded for it Versus Being good all the time and getting never rewarded for it.
Hmm hard choice!

Once you have left school and entered the work environment you do hope to get rewarded for hard work - through pay rises and promotions, performance reviews etc. so it does not seem wrong to me that school should also offer rewards. I agree that children who find it hard to behave appropriately should be rewarded when they manage it, but disagree that children who find it easy to behave should be "put in their place" when they point out the unfairness of being expected to continue to do so and not be rewarded for it, where others are.

At school my parents did the whole "You should do your best because it is the right thing to do" and I remember resenting it - especially when other children's parents rewarded them financially or with parties etc. for their GCSE results, and I had the same or in some cases better results and my parents just said "well well done, but that's what we expected of you, and those to Bs could have been As couldn't they...". I also remember that I got in a lot of trouble at school for refusing to re-take an exam in the 2nd or 3rd year of secondary school (showing my age, year 8 or 9) because the teacher felt I had not done my best, when I knew my mark was above the average for the year - I am just saying this to point out the average or a b it above average children can feel the unfairness of being apparently penalised for NOT being of either brilliant nor below average ability quite intensely...

I think expecting middle of the road or slightly above average children to understand at 5 that they should always behave/ work hard just because that's what you do, when they see others apparently rewarded for alternating from disruptive to non disruptive (even though as I said please don't think I'm saying children who struggle to behave shouldn't also be rewarded for doing so).

It is a hard balancing act for schools and I agree the certificates sound long term meaningless really, but it seems a very mature level of understanding and self motivation is being expected of the "ordinary" - not SEN, not shiningly brilliant - 4 and 5 year olds by some posters on this thread - reception children are very young to be expected to "suck up" perceived unfairness, no matter whether they are of ordinary ability or not!

I agree with OP and think it sends out a message that is confusing for young children.

At my DC's school they have some form of informal rota whereby everyone is recognised for some sort of achievement which seems fine. The issue I find is at clubs/parties where the naughty/noisy ones are the ones that get the attention/first turns/to be the helper which I think is very unfair and sends out completely the wrong message to those following the rules. But no doubt part of life.

I can see that some children do respond well to praise, but IMO this should be a less visible thing between them and the teacher (eg teacher keeps reward chart in her drawer and child sticks on sticker). Public praise should be for genuine achievement or good behaviour.

Red Gruffalo raises an important point which can often get lost when things get reduced to one issue at one point in time.

Children are exposed to multiple reward structures in school, and do keep track. A whole system of more personal rewards-I make a point of praising something about work in every one-on-one interaction with a learner, sticking stickers on books to mark progression (say a higher reading level) or particularly good work. My school also gives cumulative certificates for such minor rewards-something like an individual house points system. Hence achievement in itself is recognised.

Behaviour is recognised through consistent praise for the very good, and a great deal of criticism of the bad, and this is linked to tangible rewards (golden time, register taking etc.) Again, we have a cumulative aspect to this, so that for every twenty golden times you get a little chitty at circle time (this is generally lots of people).

But we also use different certificates strategically to give everyone praise for something more specific to them, the whole school assemblies or 'writer of the week' awards. It is these the OP moans about.

Hence I'm not sure it is true that a child in the 'middle' who works and behaves well has been less rewarded than a child who has lost their golden or sunshine chart for several weeks and then behaves well and gets a certificate for that. It's just that the reward is different.

Of course, whether five-year-olds report all this is different, but that doesn't mean that their reports on ONE instance actually reflect their attitudes to rewards at school-there is a world of difference between 'why do naughty kids get certificates' and 'why do naughty kids get all the praise'. I don't mind those I work with thinking the first, the latter would upset me a great deal if they absorbed it.

We had this problem. My son is well behaved, bright,undemanding, hard working and quiet - so got over looked by his shouty teacher - along with a handful of other children.

It always seems to me that the bright, bossy, loud, in your face type girls who point out what they have achieved get rewards - along with the naughty, loud and lazy boys.

Two thirds through the year my son had still had no rewards - yet some kids had 4 or 5. I raised it with the teacher a couple of times and in the end passed the problem to the head. I asked that the achievements of all children were recognised. I was informed that poor record keeping was to blame but i also recon that the teacher was unprofessional and had favorites.

as a child this bothered me because i felt overlooked - as a hardworking, quiet and well-behaved kid, watching kids who sometimes bullied me getting awards for 'effort' stung a bit.

As an adult OTOH i appreciate this is a useful tool to get those kids to do better, and that possibly those kids would be much worse without the encouragement.

So - it feels wrong, but it works.

The naughty kids getting awards in assembly are the bankers of tomorrow. All good training.