I don't understand how dd sees things

[GooseyLoosey]

Dd is 6 and the youngest child in Yr 2 (late Aug birthday). She is a quiet child and is in the middle groups at school for everything.

Her father and I are pretty accademic people. We both have degrees from Oxford and fairly glittering accademic records. Ds(7) learns like a sponge.

dd struggles to understand anything that has any level of abstraction - no matter how many times it is explained. Her homework at the weekend was to work out how many lego bricks it would take to build a 10 stair staircase. She could not understand the instructions or the example (it showed you steps 1, 2 and 3). Even when we built it together, she was still not completely clear what she was supposed to be doing. I just could not understand how she could not see this and it drove me nuts. I have had similar problems explaining fractions and odd numbers. She can answer questions that I have explained to her, but could not apply the same principles in a different context (so if we did fractions looking at slices of cake, she would have problems applying it to a basket of apples).

I worry that she has more problems grasping these things than she should but just sails under the radar at school. Her teacher says everything is fine but she does not always listen to instructions or try as hard as she might. I am not sure this is true - I think she does not understand the instructions and is then unable to set about the task she is given.

Do you think I am worrying about nothing? At her age, I would have got all of this stuff easily and ds certainly did. I have no problems that she does not get it - I just don't know how to work out if she needs help or is just a normal kid.

And maybe have a sense of humour about your mis-spelling? That was a shocker!

On the example (again! I like examples): do you know (or does she know) why she thinks 33-2 is 30 or 29?

Have you ever looked at the work of Piaget? I think you are expecting too advanced thinking from too young a child.

What you really need to do is to make sure your worries/frustration do not get conveyed to her. If she is at a good school you trust, then leave it to them. If not then try to bring in someone who thinks the way your daughter does.

If she got 2b at the end of year 1 she is somewhat advanced for her age.

Of my children two see sequences and patterns with no problems, just as I did. One really struggles, she is just made differently and has her own strengths (hard work is one of them).

2b at the end of year 1 is well above average. Does that help at all?

Check she isn't really tired when doing homework. In my experience, even the brightest child can make 2 + 2 = 342 when tired. Friday nights are by far the worst!

I'm supposed to have an IQ over 160.
DC aren't as bright as I was. Sometimes I feel disappointed about it.
DC-almost 3yo is especially thick, he cannot do puzzles for toffee and struggles to know his colours.
Meanwhile DC2 is SO socially confident, and fits in, and has heaps of friends. And is happy. I was bullied and a social outcast. I envy her ability to be clued up about popular culture things.

Our kids just aren't us. They are totally a different mix of traits, strengths and weaknesses.

Seeker/ mummytime - yes it does help.

Acanthus - you may be right about the "brain freeze", I have wondered if she feels under pressure from me. If I ask her to explain her answer (eg how did you get to your answer (of 33.2=30)), she can not and makes wilder and wilder guesses at the correct answer. If I asked her to go away and think about it she would usually come back with the right answer.

The maths was from a "simple" Carol Vorderman book for KS1 as I thought maybe practice might help. It was easier when you saw it as it had pictures of frogs and lilly pads and at each jump you took away 2.

My DD is 7 and in the top set for maths, yet she'd still give me a similar answer to that number sequence!

Sometimes she tries to do it too fast and gets it wrong, and others she simply can't be bothered.

Maybe it just isn't interesting for your DD or she may even be feeling under pressure to get it right. She's doing well. If you're worried talk to her teacher or just play games so she doesn't realise you're 'teaching' her.

X-post, sorry!

ragged - you are right and actually I would not want her to be "super bright" - it certainly has not made ds happy. I don't care how clever she is, I just want to do the best for her I can and that means knowing and understanding when she is doing OK and knowing when there is a problem.

I can not believe that her inability to grasp things is normal, but know that I may not be seeing things quite right.

I should add that her 2 best friends are both pretty clever children and in the top groups for everything so I can't really make a comparisson there either.

You could try an experiment.
For the next 4 weeks, try and praise her exclusively for her effort, not for her answers.

so when she says that 32-2=29, say "Oh, I really liked the way you were thinking so hard about that one. It's not quite right though, can you think again." etc
Try to reduce the pressure and any vibes that you are expecting more from her than she is giving.

See what happens! (and do let me know!!)

Good idea Sarah. I do try and do that as I know that it must be the right thing to do and then I think my frustration shines through! I will try harder though. Can I ask, are you a teacher?

I had a very bright father (Oxford academic, grew up there) and a very bright older sister - I used to get 'brainfreeze' and give up easily if I didn't excel in something. I honestly thought I was meant to excel and if I didn't, was no good at all - no one ever said that, or tried to put pressure on me, but that can happen if you have different strengths to a setting you happen to live in

I think, Goosey, thats its wonderful that you care so much about finding the right 'peg' to hang expectations on - you are trying to 'see' your lovely dd for herself, and that comes shining through. I still think (and most people seem to be saying the same thing) you can afford to relax, focus on her strengths, let her find her way and follow her lead a little...and give it some more time. If nothing else, relaxing will give you a little more distance so if there IS a problem - you will see it better.

There is absolutely no way, btw, that dd's best friend (August born - it still makes a big difference) with her Cambridge scientist Dad and her hugely musical, clever Mum and her own bright, creative little brain could do the maths you talk about easily - or at all, without a number square and some help. Yet I am quite sure she has no problems, and will be doing it all easily a year or six months or three months from now

I am a qualified teacher but now I work self employed as a tutor.

Agree with sarahfreck. Also wrong answers are often more interesting than right ones. It gives a starting point for discussion. But you cannot teach somebody who is afraid of contradicting/disappointing/upsetting you. Learning is a two-way thing. (At least I'm learning to add-up so much better these days from teaching the kids!)

We all have to accept our limitations. For example, you may be very bright, but your spelling isn't good!

Lily

Comparison

Elibean - I think I have unintentionally put too much pressure on her in the way you describe.

Sarah - its always nice to have an idea how teachers would approach a problem. I find as they are so much more experienced with children it helps me put things into perspective.

I can't spell, I know that, but TBH, it is not something that is ever going to impact on where I end up in life - it is easy to work around with spell checks, secretaries and dictionaries. I would never spell anything incorrectly on a CV or in a piece of work.

I worry for dd as an inability to process instructions or abstract concepts clearly would.

"However, in almost every area, the teacher had marked her down for effort"

Whsat do you mean?

Yeah, ok

It's just that you will tell us how enormously clever you are!

She got an end of year 1 report and it was split into about 8 subjects - for the ones covered by the NC, there was an attainment mark (2(b)). Everything else (eg IT, history, science) had a letter for both attainment and effort. Dd got average in most areas of for attainment but was generally marked as below average for effort.

Her own very brilliant teacher was off on maternity leave and this was an NQ teacher in her first post - she had never spoken to us about dd and given the usual reassuring clap trap at parents' evening. I have taken this up with her current teacher and we now operate an incentive scheme - if he says she has tried hard and listened well - she gets rewarded.

However, I think that they may all be missing the point. It msy not be that she doesn't try but that she doesn't really get what she is supposed to be doing. I have put this to the school several times but they think not. However, dd is the kind of child who wants to please so I find it really hard to believe that she consistently does not try, it just does not fit with her personality.

Acanthus - I said that at the beginning as it was highly relevant to what I was trying to explain.

Smilies don't make things less insulting you know.

So she got well above average for the the SATS type subjects, but average for the others. That's a bit puzzling, I think - I wonder why that was.

Oh, and I'm sorry to harp on, but are you sure you aren't assuming "below average' because it was, for example, a "b"? Ignore me if this is irritating - but you do seem to have very high expectations!

I think as adults we sometimes have problems seeing how many different stages children have to work through to get to the point of really understanding a new maths concept.

Your example of fractions is a case in point.

To know how many apples are half the number in a basket, a child has to be able to count objects accurately (not just recite numbers); understand what half is (probably involves practically cutting up cakes, apples, pizzas etc); then sharing objects between 2 people ('if I have 4 apples and share them with you...'); and probably working on doubles (throwing a double six makes 12...); before finally coming to the question 'how many is half of a basket of 14 apples'!

Once we are past that stage, it is genuinely difficult to unpick what is needed, and some children may need more intermediate stages than that, even.

Your daughter sounds as though she needs to work things through in small steps, practically. Many children find they have to work in 'concrete' terms till at least 7, and often older.

I agree than reading some Piaget may be helpful (and interesting), and may help you to see where she is progressing, and what the next stage may be.

No - the letters stood for something like "Outstanding" "Good" "Average" "Needs work".

This is a guess as I can't quite remember what all of the terms were, but they were totally unambiguous and along these lines. For effort - dd got whatever the score below average was.

I know my expectations are too high - I am trying hard to readjust them. I am happy with whatever dd gets as long as its the best she is capable of getting and I have provided her with any help I should have done along the way. At the moment, I can't work out whether she did not try or I did not provide the help I should have done or both.