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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

WWYD - DS(4) pooed himself TWICE today and came home covered in shit

116 replies

ASecretLemonadeDrinker · 15/09/2010 17:34

DS has been going for a week of half days and no accidents, though I did tell them he was at nursery. Today was his first full days and as soon as I collected him the smell would have knocked you sideways! I had DS 2 (2) and DS3 (10w) so just went to the car thinking he must have just had an accident, but when I peeled off his trousers he was covered. It was all over his shoes, his socks, on the back of his trousers (you could see it soaked through, like he had sat in a muddy puddle) and once I wiped away the wet stuff, his legs were totally caked in dry poo, it had obviously been there hours. Half a pack of wipes wouldn't even get it off so had to put on his spare jogging bottoms and take him home for a wash (5 min drive). I asked him when he pooed and he said at lunch and when he was running outside. I can understand a missed wee as it can sometimes be harder to spot, but his trousers were soaked in shit and he stank.
They also 'lost' most the parents emergency contact forms (a teacher came out and accused alot of them of not giving them in - which in itself was only spotted after a week! and it transpired they had lost them and found them the next day)
I sent DS back in the pther day to get his indoor shoes and the teacher came back out saying he had to keep one pair there (I said I wanted them home to clean them, but infact I want to keep track of them) and DS blurted out they were lost - £40 and lost within a few days, but have given them the benefit of the doubt that they are just misplaced for a bit - they are very well labelled. They are supposed to have indoor and outdoor shoes, but after the first few days they said they weren't enofrcing it for a while to let them settle in

Last few are just side issues as it seems to be one thing after another at the moment.

WWYD about DS coming home in this state?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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MollieO · 15/09/2010 19:22

I sent in a kit every day (pants, wipe, spare clothes, nappy bags for soiled clothes) having had a meeting with the teachers to discuss what was happening and the reason for it. They were absolutely fine. The fact that it was a diagnosed medical problem rather than wilful bad behaviour made it easier to deal with imo.

TotalChaos · 15/09/2010 19:22

yes, worth seeing the GP, could be something relatively simple like constipation causing this. also try and encourage your DS to help clean himself up as far as possible.

duckyfuzz · 15/09/2010 19:23

OP has he seen the gp about it?

Original poster

ASecretLemonadeDrinker · 15/09/2010 19:25

DS is good at (trying) to clean himself up, and he is starting to get embarrassed - had no idea about fecal incontinence - thankyou! - I had put it pretty much down so far to slow at potty training, but yet he is generally quite good with going for a wee, will ask and wait even on a motorway for example. Darn GPs is closed Thursdays, will take him Friday, thankyou, that sounds quite likely IMO

OP posts:

Original poster

ASecretLemonadeDrinker · 15/09/2010 19:29

Not seen GP yet as I thought it was a potty training issue, but I think over the summer holidays it was better just due to the fact I would encourage him to try every few hours, so some times 'got lucky', and thought he would be good about going at school.

OP posts:

DanceInTheDark · 15/09/2010 19:32

DId the sc hool know t was soiling accidents rather than wetting? (it may make a differenece) It may be worth a trip to the GP fr advice, if they think its anything more serious they can start the ball rolling at their end. DS2 has bowel issues and had a useless reception teacher. He was sore a lot of the time. They thought it could be a number of things completely out of his control.

mrz · 15/09/2010 19:38

oldienotamoldie but not all schools have TAs in reception or in fact in school
Sorry but if parents don't want schools to take on the "social role" and to concentrate on teaching ...

TotalChaos it's another one of those rules I'm afraid schools aren't supposed to phone parents to change their child in the event of a toilet accident

silverfrog · 15/09/2010 19:53

mrz, you are conflating arguments for convenience.

the fact remains that, if no TA in class or school, the school should still have a policy (which the school in question apparently does) and a designated protocol for dealing with accidents.

I am sure that the protocol is not "leave child in soiled clothing all day, and not care whether he is sore/ill/embarrassed/upset/list goes on"

mrz · 15/09/2010 20:07

No silverfrog I'm stating that on another thread currently running on mumsnet other parents are complaining that schools are taking on a social role rather than teaching ...so what do parents want from schools?

and I'm sure that if you had sole responsibility for 30 children you might discover that it is possible to get to the end of the day without being aware that a child has had a toileting accident.
Had the OP's child told anyone about his accident at lunchtime or when he was outside ? If not ...Why not?

I've cleaned up more than my fair share of accidents over the years (and I'm the teacher not a TA) but sorry some children won't admit they've pooed and short of checking everyone's bum sometimes it's difficult to pin down the source of the unpleasant smell.

silverfrog · 15/09/2010 20:10

if you are talking about the water in class thread, I think the complaint is more about inflexibility in a lot of cases.

and, btw, have been there, done that wrt being in charge of lots of children.

and it is possible to sort it out, although I agree, not always clear instantly where the smell is coming from.

But to not be able to find out over the course of a whole afternoon? what was the teacher doing? standing on the other side of the room the whole time, not wanting to get too close?

brassband · 15/09/2010 20:21

the school are in loco parentis.They absolutely cannot leave a child in that condition.If they can't contact the parents or the parents can't get there very quickly, then they have to do something to sort the child out.No one likes sorting out poo (especially when it's not your own child) but that is part of the deal when you are working with children.
Quite apart from the child in question,if shit is oozing through his trousers, then clearly there is a serious health risk to other children and staff in the school.

Lotkinsgonecurly · 15/09/2010 20:24

Lemonade - I would maybe let it go this time, as unacceptable as it is.

Tomorrow, it may be worth - sending an email to the school with your contact details and asking them to call you if he has an accident again so that you can quickly go and change him.

Send him in with a complete (labelled) change of clothes.

Make sure his teacher and ta's are aware of the situation and hope that they will intervene quickly tomorrow.

Does your ds know where all the toilets are? ds when he first started reception was convinced that at lunchtime you could only use one toilet so he had an accident whilst waiting for that one. A quick tour round the next lunchtime with a ta managed to sort that out.

mrz · 15/09/2010 20:25

Perhaps the teacher was outdoors with the OPs son

and as someone who has crawled around activities trying to locate the source asking small children if they need the loo I disagree it's always possible to track down the individual

mrz · 15/09/2010 20:27

No brassband it isn't the deal when you are working with children ...I'm a teacher it's not in my job description although I wouldn't knowingly leave a child with a dirty btm

brassband · 15/09/2010 20:31

Calm down MrZ nobody said you had to do it personally, but it has to be done

mrz · 15/09/2010 20:36

brassband I'm very calm thanks for your concern So who do you propose does it if I don't?

nannylocal · 15/09/2010 20:36

That's terrible! I would def talk to the class teacher tomorrow. There is no way that should have been allowed to happen. I think it'd a good idea to take him to the GP as someone suggested because frequent poo accuidents at 4 may well be more than poor potty training. Would he wear pull-ups to school? Or would he be embarassed? That might help control it a bit until you can sort out what's causing the problem.

Anenome · 15/09/2010 20:52

It's wrong on so many levels that I am fuming on your and your DH's behalf!

It's bloody unacceptable and I wuld be abnging o the governors doo tommorrow! See the head about this...ask what the policy is..there WILL be a policy...if the teachershave not abided by the policy then you should demand they are remonstrated with...if their policy is not to wipe bottoms the THEY SHOULD HAVE CALLED YOU!

No excuses...we are made to send tinies off to school all bloody day and then they're not cared for!

He might have a problem he might not...some kids just take longer...I would be down there in the morning if I were you.

MollieO · 15/09/2010 21:43

Sorry just realised I should have written 'fecal' not 'fetal'

Ds had a bug that constipated him. When that resolved it was followed by fecal incontinence. At first I just thought he was being naughty and not bothering to go to the school toilets when he needed to. GP explained issues in words of one syllable to me and I had my usual guilty parent feelings. He had to have lactulose for weeks, even when he started pooing normally, in order for his body to get back to normal.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 15/09/2010 22:27

he could have encorepsis hence soiling/leakage

Hangingbellyofbabylon · 15/09/2010 22:39

hi, sorry to hear about your poor little ds . My dd has a lot of poo accidents in reception due to chronic constipation and then over-flow, then problems with medication. It was hell for her but the one thing that meant we got through it was the fact that the school always treated her with dignity. I always sent her in with wipes and spare clothes although on more than one occasion the TA actually had to shower her down in the disabled loo. My poor little girly. I think it is awful that your ds was left in poo for so long. Not acceptable and I do think you need to write a letter and ask to speak to the teacher. Also supply them with wipes etc, I think it helps. I hope things get better for you and for ds.

brassband · 16/09/2010 14:36

Mr Z'who do you propose does it if I don't?'

I dunno.You said you would never leave them with a bum like that so presumably you must have something up your sleeve (figuratively speaking, noy a hanky!)

Greensleeves · 16/09/2010 14:43

I think if you resent mopping up shit, or think that as a teacher cleaning dirty arses is somehow beneath you, then you should get another fucking job

what an attitude

systemsaddict · 16/09/2010 15:00

Your poor son and poor you, it's such a worry isn't it? My ds still has poo accidents too and school has same policy of being ready to clean him up, but we have already picked him up with dirty pants once, though he admitted he was keeping away from the teachers on purpose outside after it happened and it hadn't soaked through.

I know the first couple of weeks must be pretty chaotic for the teachers, but I would definitely at least try and speak to someone if your son was left in such an uncomfortable and dirty state; it's a horrid way for him to start school, and it's not their fault they're now expected to start school so little.

domesticsluttery · 16/09/2010 15:05

The trouble, as a teacher, with cleaning up accidents is that it takes you away from the other possibly 29 children in your class that you are supposed to be teaching

DS2 was lactose intolerant (he has grown out of it now) and would have poo acciudents. When he was in nursery school it was policy to phone parents to change him. In Reception it was policy that they (usually the TA) would give him wipes and help him to clean himself up.

He was never left sitting in clothes covered in poo, and I do think that it was totally unacceptable that the OP's child was.

However I do understand why schools have the policy that they don't change children. I don't think that any teacher thinks that it is "beneath them", but they do need to concentrate the majority of their time on teaching.

Lemonade, I think that you need to speak to the teacher and work out a strategy for what should happen if he has another accident in school. What happened is not satisfactory, but you do need to work with the school if he is likely to have frequent accidents.

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