yr 1 having to wait to go to the loo

[luciemule]

DS was chatting to me last night and seemed worried about the toilet system in his new yr 1 class.

He said they have a toilet chart where there's a side for girls and one for boys and if you're going to the loo (after asking), you have to put your label on the top, which means nobody can go if you're there (there are 7 toilets for boys and 7 for girls). I said surely this wasn't right and I would ask the teacher today.

So I asked her this morning what the set up was and she said that's correct and that they were allowed to go at all times after asking but not at carpet time (15mins long) every so often throughout the day.

I laughed and said that was ridiculous and how could they expect a 5 yr old child who was still in pull ups at night to sit and wait until either the person on the top of the chart had come back or not at all if on the carpet. There was a message on the whiteboard telling parents that they were teaching the children not to go to the loo at carpet time and to make sure they went before class (like a 5 yr old will remember to do that)

So I said that I didn't agree and that it was counter-productive to my toilet training; saying that we are always telling DS to go when he needs and not to sit there holding it. She said that was the rules. She said if she could they were desperate they could go but not at carpet time (she isn't a mum).

Don't really know what to do now - I know that DS is worried about it and when I said he should just say he really needs to go when he does and he replied "but it's the rule".

I agree that in yr 1, they need more rules and discipline but to be told to sit and wait for 10/15 mins whilst they have carpet time is bonk.
On the ERIC site it says that making a child go to the loo 'just to try' when they don't really need to can cause their bladder not to learn when it's really full and lead to not drinking enough in order not to need to go or incontinence.

Am so pee-ed off with school - they have the most bonk rules and if the parents don't agree with them -tough!

Seems a silly system but my ds was in y1 last year and they went in at 9 and it wasnt until around 10 30 they did the toilet run.

Alot of things in y1 seem alot firmer but they eventually do adapt, my ds is one of the younger ones and we had lots of tears about the toilet issue but they soon adapt.

Not sure I agree TBH. 10 / 15 mins isn't that long to wait is it? And there can't be too many occasions when all 7 loos are in use at the same time.

My DD often announces that she is DESPERATE, usually in the middle of a meal, but can easily wait until there's a more appropriate time to go.

Oh, and the chart seems quite sensible for teachers to know who's where esp if there was a fire or summat.

I think that generally most dcs by year one would be able to wait for 10-15 minutes. In other aspects of every day life people including children may have to wait this long (for example the toilets at a park or other venue may be a short distance away; there may be a queue etc etc)

However if a child (or indeed adult) struggles to wait this long due to anxiety or illness or disability (or any other reasons) then an exception should be made, of course. Perhaps you could liaise with the school nurse (the school will have the phone number of where he or she is based). Voice your concerns to her.

I think that if the teacher permitted all children to get up during carpet time then it would be chaos.

How does your ds manage during assembly? In our school that is about 30/40 minutes long and I have only once seen one reception child to go out, so clearly most of the dcs are able to sit through.

It's not the school's policy - it's this teacher.
The point is whether or not my ds wants to go but the fact that if he did, he would be prevented at carpet time.
To say it would be disruptive then is no different to saying it's disruptive whilst they're at the tables doing work.

I do think that the chart idea for knowing where the kids are is a good idea (fires etc) but I still disagreee about the holding thing. Medically and mentally, it's not good to withhold and completley contradicts what parents spend their time telling children to do and that's go when you need to.

Also to add that unless you do think he is not able to wait (due to illness or anxiety or whatever) the best thing that you can do is support and encourage him and tell him that he is able to do it. You sound a little anxious and possibly a bit put out by this rule and he may well pick up on this.

You ask how can a 5 year old remember to go to the loo before class? Well if he can't remember perhaps you, or whoever drops him off can remember. I always ensure that dd1 year two has had a wee in the morning before we set off. I think that most children would then be able to wait until morning play unless they had drunk a huge amount or had other difficulties.

lucimule but surely (unless you spend most of your time at home or within literally moments of public toilets) your dc cannot possibly go the minute he needs to in every day life?

Carpet time is massively different to table time imo. At carpet time the whole group is together and they are all listening to the teacher or ta. Some children (mine is one of them) are fidgety and would love the excuse not to have to sit still.

As for it not being school policy, I am sure that most teachers would not be happy to let children be in and out of circle time as a regular thing, it is very disruptive.

Have to agree as someone who has worked with this age group and a Mum of a ds who has toilet issues thaty I totally agree with the teacher.

Children of that age shoudl be able to wait 10-15 mins, after all if they are going on a car journey they have to.

And the rule about only one person at a time is totally sensible.

A. It allows a 5-10 min breathing space so you can tell who REALLY does need to go, not just wanting to go becasue their friend is (often by the time friend has come back they have decided they don't need it after all)

B They go there and back MUCH quicker than if there is someon else there to chat too/distract each other, wait for the friend to finish too.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect children to be able to control themselves for 15 minutes during carpet time in Yr 1. You say medically and mentally it is not good for children to hold it in but I am fascinated as to how you cope on, for example, motorway journeys - do you instantly pull over onto the hard shoulder if your DS says he needs to go or do you ask him to hold on until the next services?

It's a fact of life that sometimes we can't go to the toilet the second we need to and I think Yr 1s are plenty old enough to begin learning this. If you had said he was in pre-school, my reply would have been very different but it's not as if they are just out of nappies in Yr 1, is it?

TeamEdward I'm not a teacher (but you are I think?) I had to :) at your post, my dd had a lovely report apart from the bit that said she is well aware of what is expected of her on the carpet but she really struggles to comply. Too much chat and not enough listenin - like her mother. (the last sentence was mine btw not on the report!)

I have actually spent a lot of time in a primary school as a voluntary TA (not the school in question)and the school completely understood the need for a child to be allowed to go to the toilet if they asked.

I have an 8 yr old DD who has chronic constipation and although DS has no toiletting probs, other than still being in pull ups at night (yes, it's very common in yr 1 and beyond sleepinglion)if he was sat at home and told me he needed the loo, I wouldn't tell him to wait 10/15 mins just to make sure he really is desperate. That's obviously slightly different in that at home he would just take himself off to the loo but I'm trying to illustrate the point.

Elphabaisegreen as a mother of a child who has 'toiletting issues' why would you agree about making them wait? perhaps that's why your child has issues? I don't mean to be impolite when I say that but perhaps if your child isn't being alllowed to go to the loo at school, it's making the problem worse.

The very fact that almost all of the replies imply I'm BU, shows how much more information is needed to make parents and teachers aware of the problems relating to continence. Just take a look at the site linked to see how big a problem this is.

My ds was always itching to go to the loo when he came out of yr one
I had to nag him all year to remember to go to the loo in the afternoon, they will soon learn to go before or after carpet time, kids adapt easily, like only going for a poo at home, never at school

thanks Bigchris.

luciemule, I am well aware that some children are in pull-ups at night in Yr 1 and beyond but unless your DS's school has a very different routine from the majority, I am presuming that he is there during the day. My point was that most children will have been out of nappies during the day for a significant length of time by the time they get into Yr 1 and I would stand by that point.

I don't see the relevance of his still wearing pull-ups at night, TBH - it has no bearing on how well he is or is not able to control himself during the day, I would suppose.

You still haven't answered the question about whether you spend every minute of your day within seconds of a toilet to accommodate your DS's needs - it would be interesting to know, given the problems relating to continence which you speak of and that the rest of us are unaware of.

If we're on a journey, he'll say when he's starting to need the loo but tbh, we've never had an accident on a journey with either of them since they've been dry in the day.

A lot fo the time, when we travel to in laws/friends, we use A roads so there are loads of places to stop. A couple of months ago, DS had to stop 3 times within 20 mins as he'd been drinking loads of juice. So we just pulled into a parking bay and he weed at the side of the road.

We've never had to say 'hold on' on the motorway as they know to tell us in advance of being desperate.
SL I wasn't meaning to be patronising about the continence thing; I meant that loads of people aren't aware that it's such a big problem and schools can often exaccerbate the problem.

Maybe you should let your DS have this opportunity to learn to hold his wee until an appropriate time and speak to the teacher if it actually is a problem for him - rather than worrying about it before there is a problem.
And if you DS is very worried about it, perhaps he will be likely to make sure sure he doesn't need to go before class.

"We've never had to say 'hold on' on the motorway as they know to tell us in advance of being desperate"
Well that's good then. He'll know if he should go before class.

His issues are not about being made to wait but more about refusing to go when he needs to.

By Year 1 children have to start to learn these things or it is very, disruptive.

Hmmm - okay see what you'er saying but it was more about making the point that IF he wanted to go, then he had the freedom to be able to.

I will now step down from my soap box :)

But they have the freedom to go at all other times. And I know what my ds is like, if allowed to go just becasue his friends were there then he would spend all day in the loos and inYear 1 they don't have the spare staff to go checking on the loos every 5 mins.