Am I drinking too much?

[fiziwizzle]

I hope this isn't too contentious. I have taken most of the pregnancy advice with a pinch of salt as I reason, I'm not ill, I'm pregnant (re exercising etc) and also, women have been doing this for thousands of years without avoiding soft cheese/pate/shellfish. So I'm eating nuts, soft boiled eggs and pate and I'm also having a few drinks a week.

I know that a glass of wine (175ml) contains 2 units and so does a pint of beer, and I have either a glass of wine or a pint of beer on 3 - 4 occasions per week. This is more than my MW recommended (1 to 2 units, once to twice per week) but I reason, if 2 units are OK on one day, why are they not OK on the next?

My drink is always with a meal, and on the odd occasion I have had two glasses of wine over a long meal (a few hours).

I think (I hope!) that I'm being sensible here, not sticking rigidly to guidelines but using my common sense. I'm 15+3 and this is my first, so I have no past experience to guide me. I just sometimes lie awake and worry that I may be harming the baby - even though, in my view, the advice about abstaining in pregnancy is scaremongering, and the body is designed to protect the baby above all else.

I suppose I'm asking for someone to put my mind at rest.... Or I may be in for a telling off!

I'd say you were drinking too much to.

Why risk it? Just stop, it's for 9 months, hardly a sacrifice in the grand scheme of things, if you're sitting there at night panicking about it why don't you just switch to alcohol free?

Becks alcohol free is quite nice, have yet to find a nice alcohol free wine, they just taste like grape juice.

MrsB - I meant to add to also do without blood tests, blood pressure and urine checks, scans etc....i.e. standard antenatal checks.

I know what i described without that is actually a home birth is actually very popular.

Sorry, but another too much view, and I love a decent glass of wine.

I'm also not getting 'if 2 units are OK on one day, why are they not OK on the next?'. Why not have 4 units on that basis? (I think its to do with cumulative effect btw).

One strategy I've found helps is to upgrade to really great wine - If I'm only going to have a glass a week it can be of the really good stuff!

yes yes cumulative effect

remember going out on massive boozy nights out when you were younger?
Fridays were one thing but you couldn't do it every night

If you like beer try the low alcohol(

OK. Thanks for all the input. 1 to 2 units once or twice a week it is.

Or maybe even stopping all together as the guidlines state. There is no 'safe' limit. You might as well stay clear. Its not that long. Or go alcohol free.

Don't want to be shouted down here, but just to point out that the OP is looking for reassurance. In my view, fiziwizzle, the amount you are drinking is very, very, unlikely to harm your baby. If you are worrying about it then cut it down, but I believe common sense needs to be a factor here. There is no clinical research that proves that alcohol consumption at this level carries any risk of causing FAS: yes, I'm aware that the only way to avoid it altogether is to cut alcohol out completely, but I think any doctor would tell you that the chances of 3/4 glasses of wine a week causing FAS would be extremely unlikely, bordering on impossible...

I think Zoe Williams' article makes a lot of sense with regards to the restrictions pregnant women face. See also the guidelines from the Birth Company's Donald Gibb: a highly respected obstetrician:

www.thebirthcompany.co.uk/information/faq/keeping-well-during-pregnancy/is-alcohol-bad-fo r-my-baby.html

Ultimately, as I said fiz - if it worries you then cut it down (or stop altogether). But honestly, the chances you've caused (or are causing) any damage are not worth losing sleep over in my view...xx

Thanks for the link ginhag. It makes very interesting reading.

Thanks to all others for your input.

It is the continued exposure to alcohol that causes FAS. So if the OP were to continue drinking the levels of alcohol that she is over the rest of her pregnancy, this is going to make risk of her baby developing FAS higher. So surely us all reaauring her that what she is doing is fine would be sending the wrong message.

If you read in her OP her midwife has already suggested she is drinking too much, or rather the ammount she is drinking is not advised. I think a Dr. would most probably agree.

Thanks to you too Connie.

I've been watching this thread and I am glad to hear a voice of reason in Connie. I have abstained all pregnancy apart from the last week when I consumed a glass of champagne every day for four days and I did worry a little bit too.

I am fairly sure I do not have a problem as I have gone three months without AND I have ready plenty of opinions on MN that argue exactly what Connie has mentioned above - maybe I am wrong for believing that but there you go.

Like the OP I am expecting my first and personally I find the combination of advice/opinion to be fairly confusing. I live in France and am surrounded by women who get pretty standard advice but regularly flout it (two friends who enjoyed about five cigarettes a week during pregnancy) plenty who eat foie gras, rare steak, cheese, etc, etc and drink when they feel like.

So thanks Connie. I have not had a drink for three days but I may have the odd glass of champagne if and when I feel like and try to stay guilt-free.

I LOVE wine and am a bit of a boozer when not pregnant but would not dream of having more than the occasional drink when pregnant. I am pregnant for the second time and thought I would be more relaxed but think I will find, as I did with DS, that the guilt of having even one glass destroys any enjoyment. Doesn't quite taste the same either plus I can't knock it back in my usual quantities so why bother? Just wait until you've given birth - time flies!

I know a lady through work who had to normal healthy babies despite drinking regularly through her pregnancies.

With her 3rd she did the same thinking that the baby would also be fine.

Unfortunately the baby was born with problems caused directly by her drinking. Think its called fetal alcohol syndrome.

Have you tried have a spitzer instead of an actual glass of wine, OP? Before I was pregnant I used to really enjoy having a glass of wine with dinner, not every night, but maybe every other night, when I sat down with either my DP or my family for a nice meal. I am seriously missing this - I just really enjoyed picking out a drink that complimented my meal, and then enjoyed it doing just that. Now I tend to have a spritzer two nights a week when I spend the night with my DP and its actually still as enjoyable. If you don't like lemonade or tonic, there's that one that sounds like "Slur" but I really can't spell And that goes very well with wine, especially Rose.

If its the light headness of drinking you're missing, try a fizzy wine, as because its carbonated it will go to your head quicker!!

I agree with LittleMissBliss- you clearly know you're drinking too much. Why would you drink 8 units a week? I don't drink at all when I'm pregnant. I even felt guilty having 1 small glassof champers on my wedding day.

The advice I was given by my GP and MW was that, after the first 3 months of pregnancy, its ok to have 1 - 2units a week generally, "that wouldn't make it past the placenta" I was told, as the placenta filters out nasties up to a point, as does your own liver; so you could have 1 or 2 drinks MAX a week if you want, maybe try to have it with food as well? also, try to avoid strong lagers, as other people have said some beers are 2/3 times stronger than others! And I avoid spirits. I find a nice long white wine spritzer with plenty of soda and ice is nice and lasts a while, or a lager shandy (I ask for the weakest beer available).

personally I avoided alcohol until nearly 5months gone then for the last 2 months have had 1 unit once a fortnight approx, I save them for when we're going out with friends etc., so I can have that one 'relaxant', i.e., last night out for a meal with family I had 2 very weak half lager shandies with a large resterant meal over 4-5 hours. I won't now have a drink for about 2 weeks, its not that hard personally as, even though I normally like a drink, I feel strange enough being pregnant - don't want to be totally lightheaded whilst preggers as well! Even if it was difficult I would still not have more than the odd once-in-a-while unit as I would worry...

I didn't drink during the first 3 months but then relaxed towards the end of the pregnancy, and in some weeks drank 3 or 4 glasses of wine (but by no means all - some times the taste of it just made me feel ill tbh). I did my own research and like Connie, came to the conclusion that it would be highly unlikely to have any effect on my baby whatsoever.

The studies I looked at, in case anyone is interested in them, are as follows:

-- The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists conducted a study of over 400,000 women, all of whom had consumed alcohol during pregnancy. No case of fetal alcohol syndrome occurred and no adverse effects on children were found when consumption was under 8.5 drinks per week. (Wilkie, S. Global overview of drinking recommendations and guidelines. AIM Digest (Supplement), June, 1997, 2-4, p. 4)

-- A review of research studies found that fetal alcohol syndrome only occurred among alcoholics; no apparent risk to the child occurred when the pregnant women consumed no more than one drink per day. (Abel, E. "Moderate" drinking during pregnancy: cause for concern? Clinica Chimica Acta, 1996, 246, 149-154)

-- A study of pregnancies in eight European countries found that consuming no more than one drink per day did not appear to have any effect on fetal growth. A follow-up of children at 18 months of age found that those from women who drank during pregnancy, even two drinks per day, scored higher in several areas of development. (du Florey, D., et al. A European concerted action: maternal alcohol consumption and its relation to the outcome of pregnancy and development at 18 months. International Journal of Epidemiology, 1992, 21 (Supplement #1)

-- An analysis of seven medical research studies involving over 130,000 pregnancies found that consuming two to 14 drinks per week did not increase the risk of giving birth to a child with either malformations or fetal alcohol syndrome. (Polygenis, D., et al. Moderate alcohol consumption during pregnancy and the incidence of fetal malformations: a meta-analysis. Neurotoxicol Teralol., 1998, 20, 61-67.)

It was the last one which was the real kicker for me... 130,000 pregnancies (a robust sample size) and up to 14 units a week did not increase the risk of FAS.

But of course the majority are right, only by abstaining completely will you be completely risk free. What annoys me is people who say "have one, that won't harm the baby, but 4 is far too much!" What are you basing that on? Because the GP told you, or your midwife? Do the proper research for yourself and see that there is no difference between 2 units and 8 units per week (1 glass and 4 glasses) in terms of risk to the baby, based on the statiscally significant data available.

People make different decisions about what's the best option for them and their baby, based on the information available to them. I have exclusively breast fed my DD for 5 months, and have done so because I looked into the health risks posed by not doing so and using formula. These risks I felt were real and proven, and in stark contrast to the perceived (but not proven) risks of drinking 3 or 4 glasses of wine a week whilst pregnant.

Just my tuppence worth.

Boobz how did you get access to that research?

Boobz -I haven't done a pubmed search on it as haven't time today, but so far as I'm aware, physical abnormalities/foetal growth problems are the more severe symptoms of FAS - I thought (and I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong!) that FAS was a spectrum, in which mental disabilities, mental retadation, and behavioural problems were associated with the 'less severe' end of the spectrum. I'm not sure how accurately these things can be measured, but that's the reason I'm not taking the risk - like I say, please do correct me if I'm wrong!

A fabulous tool called Google Scholar. The last piece of research for example can be found here:

www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T9X-3TW3YV8-8&_user=10&rdoc=1& fmt=&orig=search&sort=d&docanchor=&view=c&searchStrId=985924738&rerunOrigin=scholar.google&acc t=C000050221&version=1&urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a0b4d3722bd243681cebd87c9379ac9d

Some of the articles (like the one above) you have to buy if you are not already a member of the journal / site you are visiting; others are published on the net without limited access so you can read the whole study rather than just the abstract.

I paid for access to the last 2 studies quoted in my post above, and read them to be sure that the abstracts were accurate and not skewed for any reason (statiscal significance etc). My rusty scientific brain (I have a degree in Behavioural Science - albeit 10 years old now) checked through the papers to make sure I felt I understood all the facts.

Other bits of research not quoted in my post above you can access just by tpying in FAS into a search engine, and then sifting through the dross.

That's twice I've mispelt "statistical"... doh!

Hi,
can I please say something re the continued eating of pate etc? I was diagnosed as not having toxoplasmosis in my normal blood tests while pregnant with DS1. I was amazed, considering i'd grown up around cats all my life, and eat my meat v rare. Anyway, I was careful about what I ate for my whole pregnancy - except for some pate at a friends wedding. i figured, it's a wedding, let your hair down, ahve a glass of champagne etc. And I got toxoplasmosis. Thus my baby got it. We had to instantly go on antibiotics, he was rushed to a c-section (thankfully, he was 8.5 months old anyhow, so it wasn't too early)and was on 3 different antibiotics three times a day for a whole year. It was a nightmare. And I was lucky - toxo causes awful, awful brain and birth defects - water-on-the-brain, blindness, horrible horrible things. They (hospitals in Luxembourg) routinely, as a matter of course, abort all babies diagnosed with toxo before a certain date. They consider it that serious. So PLEASE PLEASE stop eating pate and unpasturised cheese. I ADORE the stuff, but what I went thorugh, even though DS1 is fab now, with no effects, was horrible. please take care of the food guidelines as they are really there fore a reason. Please reconsider....

Arolf - as far as I am aware, the studies I looked at were for any complications related to FAS, and therefore would include the less severe problems associated with the spectrum. But I did read them over a year ago and am also happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. I don't have access to the original papers as my laptop was stolen (bastards!) a few months ago, otherwise I would be sending Fizi the papers to save her the cost of buying them now, should she continue her research!

Luxmum I'm terribly sorry you were caught out, and am happy your DS is fine now. I agree guidelines are there for a reason and that each individual should make decisions based on what they feel comfortable with. I'm not suggesting we all ignore every piece of advice regarding precautions we take in pregnancy, but I am saying that we should do the proper research ourselves and base it on scientific evidence rather than just obeying everything that we're told.

To reiterate, I wasn't saying go and get drunk, eat soft cheese etc... all I was saying to the OP was that I did my research and felt comfortable with the decision I made to drink 3 or 4 glasses of wine a week whilst pregnant with DD. Others will not feel comfortable with that decision and will choose to abstain completely, which is of course a perfectly acceptable choice to make, however I object to people saying "1 is ok, but 4 a week isn't" when they have no evidence to back it up.