Pregnancy After Miscarriage Part VIII - Knicker Checkers and Pad Patrollers welcome

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

Is that ok?

Scarlotti fantastic news! Really pleased for you! Bring on the next 7 months!

Scarlotti, Tamlin & Crunchie thanks for your comments. I agree with you Crunchie, the last thing I expected when I phoned her last night seeking reassurance and guidance was that it was that very phone call which would have me waking up at 3.30am from a dream that I was bleeding and being told the baby wasn't "viable" Didn't actually feel too bad once I woke up as I knew exactly where the anxiety came from, if that makes sense.

Crunchie I really like your point about the warnings on everything from antiseptic cream to cough medicine. You're right, that doesn'r suggest a medical profession operating on the basis that things are safe until proven not to be.

So far as the doula is concerned, and I hope this doesn't sound arrogant, I'm not sure how intelligent she is. Frankly, I don't think she's as clever as us lot! She gave every appearence of being very indoctrinated, and as soon as that happens you lose sight of the opposite opint of view. Due to my job (barrister) I'm used to having to look at both sides of the argument, and if you start off with a "doctors are evil" premise, you're unlikely to come to a balanced, unbiased conclusion. It's like her comment that she didn;t have any scans with her last 2 pg's as there was no way she would have a termination no matter what it showed. That's all well and good, but it's not a black and white issue so far as I can see. The issues Tamlin (quite properly) raised yesterday do not fit well with that black and white approach (imo).

I do wonder if we made the right choice in booking her, but unless we want to forfeit our deposit we're stuck with her now, and I do think she'll be helpful with the birth and (hopefully) with bf, although I would lay money on her being a total bf nazi, slating all types of formula as practically poisonous - which may not be quite what I need if I'm struggling... But perhaps we'd better wait to fall off that bridge til we come to it

Thank you for looking at the articles, I'm really interested in what you all have to say about them. Am I right in thinking that it's a normal part of any standard mw app for them to listen to the hb?

Back later, sorry in advance for the typos, no time to check through this now before I post.

Jasmaxxy, so sorry to hear of your sad ness. If it helps, most of us have been there and understand how you are feeling. But all is not lost: I have had three mcs, two in a row last year and this pregnancy now looks as if it's okay; fingers crossed. So keep trying, WHEN you're ready, and take good care of yourself.
Haven't kept up with all the other recent posts but how is everyone?
I was worried last night as I had some cramps, including some sharp, stabbing ones on and off that made me really wince. They stopped at about 9 o'clock last night but I was worried and still am. Are cramps like this normal?

Sorry, scarlotti, meant to say; brilliant news; really pleased for you. I was in a similiar position two weeks and it's just such a fantastic feeling.
Do we have a list of when everyone's due? Having said that, I'm not sure whether I would want to add my details anyway: scared of tempting fate and all that. You probably have and I've missed it. Doh!

Lola, I agree with others that the ultrasound thing is one of those issues where some very wobbly links have been made between cause and effect. I have debated this with a friend who refused all scans with her babies and I've never been convinced by the argument of "we don't know the risk." All sounds a bit MMR vaccine to me (i.e. finding links between 2 events that happen at roughly the same time without investigating any causal link) I'm always up for challenging blind acceptance of traditional medicine and particularly pharmaceuticals, but I don't think this is one of those cases.

grinningbee Are you still managing to hold the tray of cakes over there?

scarlotti, brilliant news! I expect you slept soundly last night

Gateau You're about 11 weeks, right? Your ligaments will be starting to relax and shift to accommodate your growing uterus. Check it with your midwife by all means, but from here on, unusual twangs and pains will be a regular feature of the day as your muscles change position and your internal organs budge up to make room!

I have told DH to please put his mind at rest and stop worrying when I suddenly go "Oof!" and have a mo leaning against the kitchen worktop while something readjusts itself. He is a lovely fella.

Bottom line is, if it's worrying you, check it out.

Gateau as long as they aren't regular and increasing in intensity then they are normal. If they've stopped then they were almost certainly nothing

Lola right, have finished the article and done some other research as well. So... there has been research into things like low birth weight etc. and all the larger clinical trials have shown no correlation between US and low BW (unlike the less reliable, smaller trials).

The article also talks about pregnant physios without considering the plethra of other influences upon their environment - so not only are they talking about a much higher "dosage" than any other woman would ever have, so it's incomparable, it's also completely unrelatable and seemingly irrelevant

All the studies are pre 1992 (so more than 15 years old)

The Norwegian study that looked into delayed speech development and found that those with problems were twice as likely to have had more ultrasounds than the standard number, doesn't take into account social or other factors at all. And only seems to look at those affected rather than a representative cross section. So no proof there either.

some of the research on the link between US and autism is simply made by the fact that autism rates and US usage have increased! What kind of proof is that?! Argh!

And finally as another site pointed out, none of the studies take into account the social/psychological/stress related impact on the woman of having more ultrasounds.

Phew! I feel better now.

Does anyone know how tattifer's getting on? Did she get another scan date? Hope you're ok Tat.

Thanks girls for your reassurance.
The cramps did intensify last night but eventually went away. So I'll just try to relax about them. In the worst case, there is absolutely nothing I can do about it anyway.
We tried to book a holiday in the sun last night. I can't believe they charge full price for a two-year-old! Does this happen everywhere? I thought the most I wold be paying would be half price!

Is it just me or has anyone else been having a problem getting onto mumsnet the last couple of days? I couldn?t access the site and was having withdrawals!

jasmaxxy I?m so sorry to read your news. It?s cruel how our bodies carry on with pg symptoms when the bean isn?t as it should be. Are the EPU scanning you again? I hope you?re being kind to yourself and feel able to grieve.

lola at your doula. By all means she can highlight there has been some publications about risk but IMHO there?s a lot more to it than uss and dopplers definitely being the cause of problems. The problem with medical procedures and medication in pregnancy is ethically it?s very difficult in fact ethically impossible to get accurate results from a large randomised control trial which is the gold standard in medical research. So basically conclusions are drawn from studies which as Tamlin and crunchie point out may only suggest a correlation rather than cause and most people who have lots of scans have them for damn good reasons (look how difficult it is to get reassurance scans ? we can all vouch for that I think!). Loads of people I know have had 2wkly scans with twins and no problems. The benefit versus risk is also a consideration and I know I needed the scans in this pg to keep me semi sane. I had about 6 scans up till 16wks then an anomaly at 20wks and a quick growth scan at 34wks. With bleeding and concerns about growth I felt I was prepared to take my chances and having lost 3 LO?s with no scans to speak of I feel justified.

bee at your dad ? you do realise now that you are going to go into labour on Friday and have to cross your legs till the turf is laid . A show sounds like a good sign, good luck!!! And choccy cup cakes ? yum yum.

scarlotti great news about your scan, you must?ve felt such relief. The non engagement thing is entirely understandable in post mc pg. I felt almost detached when I lost my 3rd, in a way it was as if not being pg was a relief cos if you?re not pg you can?t mc but each week that passes you?ll begin to feel more optimistic and your bean has excellent statistics for becoming a baby! Brill news

crunchie hope DS2 is better and it?s great to read you and DH are getting on better

tamlin at surround sound son. My DD will never eat rice crispies again in her life now I don?t think as she happened to walk into the bathroom as I was bringing my breakfast up one morning and they were escaping through my nose (sorry if TMI- .

Well I?m now 37wks and trying not to get paranoid with how little bump seems to be moving these days. It does seem to prefer to party at night and I probably miss some but my mind is in over drive now worrying something is wrong with it, still birth, and I seem to have a constantly sore bump. Do you think it?s just cos it?s not got much room and tummy is stretched? I keep being told I?m really neat and scan showed a baby on the large side so could that be it? I?ve got MW today so will hopefully feel reassured. Am away next week in caravan (yes I?m mental we booked it!!!) so hopefully can sit in peace while DH takes DD out and about.

Hello everyone thank you for your kind words, it has helped me alot, I dont know any of you, but it helps to hear that people understand DH being very good, throwing himself into work, but good when he's at home.I think i've o'd'd on various websites, looking for a miracle i reckon, could it be wrong?My Gynae is away skiing and cant do my D & C until monday, I keep thinking this must be fate, because I'll be scanned again monday, and maybe they will find something??I know I'm kidding myself, because boobs hurt less and less, although still nauseous and constipated (tmi sorry)I know its my body playing tricks, but after spending hours trawling through the misdiagnosed miscarriage site, maybe I'll get a miracle? On the down side I'm getting a pink colour on wiping again today....so who am I kidding!I was wondering where tattifer has got to...hope you are ok? continued good luck for all of you X

jasmaxxy It's tough not feeling it's a definite loss; we wouldn't be human if we didn't hope. Just take each day and each emotion as it comes x

scotlass you are my barometer for how I will be feeling later in the week Babies certainly do slow down as they run out of space, and Trocodile Princess here is a night owl too so that's something to look forward to. I've been getting a lot of BH - practically every time I stand up I have to lean against something and breath. So my uterus is going to be the fittest part of me when it comes to labour

Phew, am so glad the rest of you ladies were as as me at lola's doula. I read and posted whilst rushing around getting ready for work ... and then fretted all morning that I'd maybe spoken out of turn and upset you lola! Pregnancy hormones

gentle yes, slept like a baby Don't worry about the pulling pains, as crunchie says it's just everything shifting and stretching. I find if I get up from sitting too quickly I get stabbed.

scotlass detached is exactly how I've been feeling. Still not gone but I think I'm slowly inching into excitement as each milestone goes by. Lol at the caravan holiday. Does this mean you'll have a festival regular if baby is born on a fold down table bed?!! Oh, and yes, I've struggled to log on too - has meant I've had to do some work instead - shocking!

jasmaxxy hope you're taking it easy. Once Monday is over with your body will stop playing tricks on you. All the emotions you're going through are perfectly normal so allow them to happen. Glad dh is being so supportive.

tattifer are you ok?

As for me, heartburn now seems to be my best friend! Thought that was just at the end when your stomach is all squished? Surely I can't have this on the cards now for 7 months? I'll have shares in my local dairy at this rate!

jasmaxxy - it's horrible to be in the no mans land part - there's always a flicker of hope but there's also the very real picture being painted, sadly symptoms are completely unreliable. The check scan before D&C is important for getting it clear in your head I think. With my mc's I knew deep down they were gone and in fact with this pg I'd convinced myself I'd lost it too. I do know someone tho who has a 6yr old DS who was told he was gone and at the check scan before D & C he was found so there's always miracles. The frustrating thing is you have no control and whatever happens you will get through it with support from your lovely DH and cuddles from your DC's.

crunchie I'm knackered this week, have totally had enough. Have just worked out 1st +ve test was nearly 2yrs ago so feel like I've been pg forever! I still reckon you'll be before me - 3rd babies are notorious for making a rapid entrance to the world . maybe the pains I'm having are BH. Am going out for lunch with a friend and her 5mth DS so can moan to her!

scarlotti x posted. Luckily parents touring van is really comfy and I've insisted we go no further than an hour from home. DH is really fit and outdoorsy so LO bound to become the same - tho DD is resisting the sport side she loves being in sites where there's friends / kids clubs / entertainment.

Heartburn can come at any time to do with hormones relaxing smooth muscle. I tried peptac and gaviscon but only had light relief and terrible diarrohea. Got some omeprazole from GP and it's ace, I only take it when I need it and it's the only thing that's given me some relief.

crunch Thank you again

scarlotti I'm actually at work,not doing too much - as you can see! Had a little panic 5 mins ago with bright red on wiping,is it happening? Very light headed, just feel like crap

jasmaxxy sorry to hear you're going through this whilst at work. If things get worse/carry on like this can you go home? When it was happening to me last Dec I went home and put on a movie I knew would make me cry, just so I could let the worry and frustrations out. Worth a thought maybe?

scotlass at your fit dh! Mine is of the armchair sport variety - although wasn't when I met him as he used to play 5 a side twice a week. Life with me has obviously made him quite lazy and horizontal comfortable

Yes i can go home if needed, felt lonely and more anxious there for some reason, will take all the advice onboard, and definitely get lots of cuddles x

jasmaxxy do go home if you need to. Hope you're ok.

Can someone help me rationalise something please?

I've got my final scan tomorrow at 36+5, I had planned to go alone, but was really hoping H would want to come and would see if he could arrange something at work.

I didn't want to push it because I feel there's enough pressure about everything at the moment, so I just left him to see what he would do. Especially since last time he asked how he could make it up to me for only coming to one of my 3 scans so far I told him he could come to my next one.

Anyway, he's back from work. Started chatting about his plans after work tomorrow. And I got sad and pointed out that it's ds1's parents' evening and my scan. "I thought you'd had all your scans" he says.

So there's my answer. No, he is not coming with me. He asked what I was so worried about (in a genuine and caring way) but I can't even speak to him. He knows that with ds2 I never believed I would hold him until he was in my arms.

And yes, I am still scared. I know baby is kicking. I know she's alive now. But I will always be scared of what a scan might reveal, and I will never 100% believe a baby lies at the end of all of this until I have that baby.

He is genuinely sorry. He has been genuinely trying to be nice to me, and has succeeded on the whole. He has offered to call work and say something's come up, but is being considered for promotion at the moment and has just started a new project so this would be a very bad idea career-wise.

I know he has distanced himself from this pregnancy. I know he doesn't worry about it. I know he worries about the fact that he doesn't worry about it.

Say nice things to me so I can forgive him please

Sorry for another self-indulgent post.

Ah crunchie you poor love, you've forgotten what a different species men are. I honestly believe that they do have limited memory space, and like homer simpson, new things knock out the old ones. You will have told him before, and when you did he would have been 100% committed to coming with you. Since then thoughts of rushing home to sick ds2, thinking of nice things to do for you etc. will have just pushed that nugget of info outside of his mental grasp.
Sounds like he's been doing what we all have - ignoring the pregnancy in order to preserve himself against the pain. Thing is for the dads it's much easier. For us, we can manage it for a whole 5 seconds until we feel sick, heartburn, movement, headache ... the list goes on.

We decided last night that we would now tell people as the doc told us that the percentage chance of us taking a baby home doesn't increase any more from now - i.e. the 12 week thing is a myth. When i emailed dh at work to check, his response was that he was too busy to be able to think about that right now and would think about it tonight Also, his mum has decided to wait until 12 weeks to tell extended family. When I spoke to him he said he wasn't trying to p1ss all over it, but just couldn't focus on that and work.

Point of me telling you this - sounds like your dh's situation. Work is obviously forefront (esp when he's there) if there's a promotion in the offing, and I suspect he really wants it so he can secure a good future for you, the boys and your trocodile princess. Try and see it as his way of engaging with the pregnancy (i.e. providing a future) rather than a distraction from the day to day bits and maybe you might feel a bit better.

For what it's worth, I'd still be a bit miffed if it were me even though I'd understand how it happened. But then I'm high maintenance at times

scarlotti thanks

I know it's probably just a part of a defense mechanism. I don't think he's done all this to hurt me. But I'm utterly fed up with the fact that he's up for the fun bits (baby kicking etc) and not the harder bits.

Have been having one long BH contraction since he came back. I need to calm down a bit. Should never have looked at that other thread about someone's friend losing their baby at 36 weeks. That was stupid.

I know men are crap. I know all this. Just need a bit of perspective now.

It's difficult to see things in perspective when your emotions are all over the shop and you'rs in discomfort, so don't be too hard on yourself.

Can you get him to take the ds's to the park or something whilst you have a bath with a bar of chocolate?

Remember too that if you look hard enough you can find something on the internet to prove anything - good or bad. And remember too that we all do it!

scarlotti thanks. And there's never a right time to tell people. Only a right time for you.

I just don't want to talk to him yet. I'll calm down in a minute. This is really stupid as I had assumed he wouldn't sort it out, just hoped he would IYSWIM.

I blame the hormones It's always their fault isn't it?

Good afternoon ladies,

jasmaxxy how are you getting on? Did you say that you are going to be rescanned on Monday? For your own piece of mind make sure you are, thinking of you and think you're very brave going to work, I took to the sofa and slept for what seemed like days.

Lola Oh no at your naughty doula - a bit of a silly thing to say to someone that she knows has already had the scans.. I must say that i feel had i not had the scans i would by now feeling A LOT more anxious than i already am and I feel that would make the baby worse off than having a short scan... I am off for my anomaly scan tomorrow.. I am feeling like i am being a bit of a meenie mum now but i will still go and enjoy every second of it.. hmmm there are some odd advice givers out there...

Crunchie (love that btw) It sounds like things with DH are becoming a little easier, even with this little hiccup.. my partner cannot make my anomoly scan tomorrow due to his work however deep down i cant help but think 'well you should throw a sickie' (even though i have never thrown a sickie in my entire life) but i suppose things dont work like that - he is still not comfortable about this pregnancy which is worrying me but i try to let him deal with things in his own way.. i thought him coming to this scan might have made him a bit more confident about it all.. siiiiigh..

Scarlotti We only told my mum and partners dad before the 12 week scan - my partner didnt want to tell anyone until we'd had the sexing scan at 16 weeks but i told him i thought that was very over cautious & unacceptable for me to keep my sister (and his mother who i work with) in the dark.. I think everyone is different, as you say the 12 weeks is less significant when you've had a scan with a positive outcome earlier. Men cannot multitask.. note to self to remember that one ;)

Well off for the anomaly scan tomorrow I am terrified about it if i am honest.. My mum is taking me for cake afterwards yummy yummy... I will of course let you all know how it goes. Please just have a little thought for me tomorrow at 2.20 and send some positive vibes.. Im sure you mnetters understand how i feel at the minute xx

Crunchie It's hard when your partner annoys you but manages to be lovely at the same time. You are allowed to be fed up, you know. Perhaps just tell him that you wish he'd realised that the scan was a priority for you, but also acknowledge that you should have let him know just how important (even if you wish he'd figured that out for himself? That's perfectly understandable IMO, but it sounds like he needs a bit of guidance on that front, infuriating as that can be).

ashleighbee Good luck for tomorrow, I will be thinking of you.

Just a quick post to wish ashleighbee good luck for your scan today