Fabulous 40+ and Proud: Mum and Mums to be Part 2

[Kaz1967]

Ok we have talked to the end of the topic so here is a new one

[mrsboogie]

haha - don't worry jw - forewarned is forearmed as they say, I'll know what to expect if anyone mentions bf clinics and will tell them I will sort me own norkage out ta very much

[jeanjeannie]

Evening all - snatching a quick check in before Verity is back snacking AGAIN!

Well, the breastfeeding clinic was ok...no boob prodding, just watched my technique... They suggested this nipple to nose malarky.....which, quite frankly is pulling my nipples to one side...doesn't seem to be as comfy as before.

But no suggestions of a practical nature of how to handle the feeding marathons. They didn't seem to believe me when I said that it was constant...as in, 'all the time' rather than just every hour or so ...Gggrrr!

johnworf no I don't smell too bad....just my left shoulder and the dribble down the back!

[johnworf]

jeanjeannie sounds like she's using you as her personal dummy. She's just sucking on you for comfort. No suggestions really unless you fancy giving her a dummy (very touchy subject so I won't even go there).

I thought nipple to nose technique was how everyone did it but mebbe that's just me. Btw ladies, I mean baby's nose to my nipple not my nose to my nipple. My boobs have sagged somewhat but I can't wrap them around my neck...not yet anyway .

Oh and jeanjeannie get yourself some Lasinoh nipple cream. It's a bit pricey (check ebay it's reasonable) but works wonders on sore/cracked nipples

[johnworf]

mrsboogie by the time they've finished prodding your undercarriage, I shouldn't think you'll be that bothered about them poking your breasticles.

Again, mebbe it's just me.

[Kaz1967]

The reason they say nose to nipple is because that means when the baby opens their mouth you get the nipple in the back up on their soft pallet away from their tongue so it does not get rubbed. Has anyone suggested feeding her in a slightly different position such as under arm? sometimes because of the way your boobs point it can be easier doing it in the rugby ball position. I know it's not an easy position to feed in in public with dignity but sometimes at home it can be useful.

[jeanjeannie]

Aw girls, cheers for the advice. had a really bad night, constant feeding...Zzzzzz and I'm still up while she's awake..Ggrrrrr!!

johnworf yeah, tried the dummy (no probs with them at all!) - she's thrown up/gagged every time! May give it another go - hold it in until she likes it And sadly I'm allergic to Lanolin I know - really odd allergy..so, any Lasinoh stuff is out of the question. I've heard it's great.

I'm a bit sceptical about nip to nose for me. Only reason I say this is that when I do it...the nipple drags over to one side (side baby is coming from) and rubs badly. I've had no problems previously with her latching on before and having a HUGE mouthful ...but with this way of latching I've now got two enormous white friction sores since yesterday

kaz1967 tried ruby balling...seems to work for the left side and not the right! Weird. Thing is everyone I saw previously - midwife, HV and MIL (a breast feed counsellour from the 70s!!!) all said the latch was fab and putting on over 1oz a day meant something was right. I just wanted advice on why feeding was so constant! Mmmmmmm, I'm going to monitor situation over weekend.

JW I'm sooo looking forward to the day I can wrap my norks round my neck like a scarf....I shall get nipple tassels to add a special sparkle!!

[johnworf]

Haha can't wait for the pics jeanjeannie of your new scarf venture

Bad news re the lanolin. Shame as it's fantastic stuff.

No other suggestions on the BF front. Mebbe paint your nipples with that stuff to stop you biting your nails....just inbetween feeds?

Sorry, very cruel mother now leaving the building

[jeanjeannie]

Hahahaha jw cheers for the biting nails tip...pmsl at that. Crikey I bloomin well needed cheering up Ta chuck!

Ooo eek, it got so bad this morning that I actually posted over on breastfeeding....and they all scare the pants off me!!! Hope Katherine has a great weekend.

[thumbwitch]

jeanjeannie - I got some nipple ointment from a herbalist friend of mine which is fab - it's made from beeswax so no lanolin involved.
contact her here to ask her about it - I'm sure she'll be able to help. Don't know how much she will charge for it as she gave me mine (being a friend)

[wahwah]

Hi all
Jeanjeannie DS was exactly the same as your Verity and it was flipping awful. I thought I'd become melded with the sofa and never leave the sitting room...

If I put him in a sling (hugabub) he settled better and I got longer between feeds, but basically he was an enormously hungry baby who leapt up the weight centiles to match his height.

[mrsboogie]

mornin all

how is everyone? I am amazed with myself this am - went to bed at 2am (ate a hot curry really late so wanted to avoid lying down and getting heartburn) and I was awake at 8am. Last fri/sat I slept from 12 to 12!

jw - see the poking at the undercarriage doesn't bother me at all; they can delve away down there so long as they stay away from the norks.

I see that measles is endemic again now in Britain, that makes me so angry. Myself and my siblings nearly died from it when very young. I can't believe people were so willing to risk their childrens' health on the basis of the theories of some maverick doctor. Even if there was a tiny risk of autism from the vaccinations it would probably still outweigh the risk of serious damage from measles.

[Kaz1967]

jeanjeannie if you were managing before and the nose to nipple is what is causing the problem then I would be inclined to say don't worry about it. It is actually very common for babies to be more comfortable feeding one way on one side and another on the other. No one's boobs are symmetrical neither are babies we all have sides we feel happier with. Go with what works esp if 2 people have said you have a good latch and she is obviously putting on weight well so getting plenty.

I also know many many Mums (one was one of the girls I worked with and also taught breastfeeding) who found their baby fed continuously so it may just be the way some babies feed which is a pain because you literally spend all your time with a baby clamped to your boob and can do bugger all. Can you feed lying down when doing it over night? It may be that you get a little more rest that way. Seeing the scarf comment has made me remember something the midwife mentioned the other day not sure if you have big boobs but she suggested having a scarf looked round neck and under boob to support it a little and give you a free hand may help get the wayward nipple under control. I taught BF for 12 years and have counselled friends and relatives successfully over phone and I am absolutely dreading doing it my self because I have no idea if I will cope.

Sore nipples have you tried squeezing a little milk out after she has fed and rubbing it in and letting it dry naturally? Breastmilk is actually very good at helping healing.

mrsboogie I don't understand the Measles thing either having looked after small children with it and actually read the original research (which not only was publicised before it was complete and treated as gospel has some major floors in it's collection and interpretation) publicity the later research involving a far larger number of children over a greater amount of time has not got.

[jeanjeannie]

Hi wahwah Mmmm, thinking sling may be the only way. Was going to order one but then spied it cheaper on ebay....I'm watching it like a hawk

The measles thing is sad. However, I suppose we offer freedom of choice and, along with the controversy over the MMR research, more and more people are reluctant to take it up. Not only that but until there are more ideas as to the rise of ASDs then vaccinations will probably take the brunt of the blame.

We had DD1 vaccinated for everything but some of DPs family vehemently disagree with all vaccinations. Each time we approach injection time they send emails linked to spurious conspiracy sites to try and put us off....all very odd.

My father almost died from diptheria and one of his siblings did. He remembers the slums of London in the late 20s, where dying from these diseases was commonplace. I too was dreadfully ill with measles and remember it well. For us it was worth the 'risk' of the MMR. Death from these illnesses is so rare that the risks pale off into insignificance for some people. Hey Ho...but then again...it's a free world!!

Just had a shower...what a treat...I smell great.....for once!

[Kaz1967]

jeanjeannie re vaccinations yep it does up until the point it effects you someone you know or you care for someone who dies or is seriously damaged by one of these conditions then as you said it becomes all too real especially when the child person effected is too young to have been vaccinated or cannot be because of a medical reason or is one of the rare ones who was and it did not take.

I wish people would go to the original research and all the stuff following it which does not necessarily come from this country and actually read what it says and make a properly informed choice rather than rely on half truths that come from the media which is where much of it has come from. anyway think I had batter shut up about it now.

[mrsboogie]

aye me too - I could go on about it, but one last point - as Kaz says the risk of dying from one of diseases seems remote until it happens to you or someone you know - only because the vaccinations keep the thing at bay in the population. If here was no vaccination we would all know children that had died or been badly damaged by it.

I read the other week that a child died recently from diptheria in London - first one in years and years. Apparently the vaccination rates in London are in the 80% region whereas it needs to be above 96% I think to keep the population clear of it. It's a collective responsibility in a way.

kaz -i confess i am relieved to hear you say that you are anxious about bfing. If someone as well informed as you is then I can excuse myself! It's the one thing about childbirth and the immediate aftermath that scares me (apart from things going wrong obv) There's so much hype around it and women seem to have so much trouble and angst with it. Puts me right off it does. I know I would be unable to cope with constant bfing like jeanjeanie so admirably does. I think I would fall asleep and the baby end up on the floor!! Also I fear that I would find the continuousness of it suffocating.

[lackaDAISYcal]

sorry for crashing in (am only 39 and pregnant so don't qualify ), but do any of you lovely ladies on here have any words of wisdom for this poster

thanks

[Kaz1967]

mrsboogie it's called herd immunity we need it to protect those who are unable to be vaccinated from medical reasons, too young to be vaccinated, vaccination does not take, or they have a serious illness which reduces their immunity. I don't actually care how people get their kids vaccinated whether it be single jabs or the MMR I just wish they would take some social responsibility for doing it. I know part of that comes from having a grown man cry on my shoulder because he had just sat with parents watching their child of a year die of repertory failure secondary to Measles

[mrsboogie]

aye yes kaz - herd immunity. Totally agree with you. What people don't realise of course, in thinking that they are protesting their children by not vaccinating - what if you have a five year old who gets measles at school because he isn't vaccinated and passes it to his sibling who is only a few months old? If the older children are immune then the baby who is too young for vaccination is at much less risk.

Thats what happened in our family; in the days pre-vaccine. We caught it as five and six year olds and passed it to my sister who was only a couple of months old. She ended up in hosptital for weeks with pneumonia and we all ended up with heart murmers.

I still remember being bed ridden and half blinded for weeks and weeks. I had to be carried to the toilet. And we probably got off relatively lightly compared to what could have happened.

Even if the science did reliably show a potential link between MMR and autism I would think it worth considering given the risk of the alternative.

And I will shurrup now

[johnworf]

Totally agree with all these tossers who are led to believe that the MMR jab is evil.

My DD#1 had measles and german measles back in the day (mid 1980's) before the vaccine and I can tell you that it was bloody awful. She was terribly poorly I can understand how kids die of it.

People today haven't seen measles or german measles in a sick child so have no idea...if they did, they wouldn't think twice about having the jab done.

Sorry, got no time for arseholes who have caused these diseases to once again get a hold.

msboogie as for BF (technically I am told that I am fully BF Katherine although at the mo obviously she's not able to take it directly from me) it's ok once you get into the swing of it. You are tied to it though and it can be quite demanding - sorry I'm just telling the truth here However, on the up side, it's the best thing to give to your baby. And tieing it in with the debate re measles etc, you're giving your baby lots of your lovely immunity to nasty stuff.

[mrsboogie]

I know jw and I do want to - jut not sure I am cut out for it. Will have to see how it goes I guess :O

If all goes ok with the birth etc I'm sure I will be too busy thanking my lucky stars to be mithered about how demanding/painful/scary/ bfing is...

[johnworf]

ah mrsboogie the birth will be a breeze Think positive!

I've seconded your request for a 1 hour labour, 2 pushes and it's out. So there you are..no need to worry any further about it

And as for the demanding/painful/scary aspect..it's no more so than marriage. At least kids grow up and leave home unlike husbands

[mrsboogie]

i'm not married...

but yes, the one hour labour will do nicely thank you!!

[johnworf]

mrsboogie Lucky you

Anyway, vent time

Doc had a word with me while I was at the hospital today to let me know that Katherine's weight gain isn't up to scratch (10grams in 2 days) so they want to top her up with formula. Not happy to say the least. DH doesn't get it, thinks doctors are god and bows to every word they tell him so he's in the dog house as well.

Long and short of it all is I didn't feel like I was making a decision as there wasn't really any to make. They've used my guilt as leverage (quicker she gains weight, faster she'll get off the ventilator) so I've had to relent. Now I'm pissed off with myself.

Whilst I was on the war path today I've had a go at anyone who would listen that the guard which holds her ventilator tube in place has taken half of her septum out and I'm livid after persistently telling them every day. Now they're taking action (hopping mad mother doesn't do to argue with). If it doesn't grow back as normal - and they said it would - I'm going to sue them!

Secondly, they failed to tell me about the cardiogram she's having done tomorrow. I only know cos I read her notes last week. I gave them a chance to tell me ('anything to report to me on the ward round?') and it was a nada...so today I told them I knew about it and wanted to be present. In their most patronising tone I was told that 'ah well, we'll just let you know the results'...I DO NOT THINK SO. I will be there tomorrow when they do it whether they like it or not and if I miss it there will be hell to pay. I'm getting sick of being treated like some numpty with half a brain.

Ok, you can all come out from behind the sofa now...I've finished

On a lighter note, these fenugreek capsules really do work - if you can bear the smell of yourself. I'm getting lots more breast milk now (Holland & Barratt - about £7.50 for 100)

Ah poo, this mothering malarky isn't as easy as I remember it to be.

[rosebury]

Hello ladies

I am 25wks now and feeling good despite the struggle to reach my feet I am off to get my toenails done on Tuesday a girl has to do her best to maintain standards even if she looks like the side of a house.

Mrsboogie what a fab word MITHERED a proper northern saying where are you from?

Kisses to Katherine.

[hedgepig]

johnworf arggggggg (KAZ if i'm wrong here please correct me) but I thought (for term babies anyway) that there was slowly a understanding that bf babies do not put on weight at the same rate as formula babies and there are new WHO weight gain graphs that support this. So why would this be any different for a premature baby? Even though Katherine is not directly talking the milk for you I would imagine that the weight gain would be slower that a formula fed baby. But its so difficult to stick to your guns when you are worried about your child. Since they are controlling totally how much milk sh e gets can't they just increase how much they are giving her?
Although DS was born at 40 weeks he didn't feed and didn't pass his meconeum (sp.) for over 72 hrs and so ended up being fed formula through a nasal tube even though I wanted to bf him. Also because of the meconeum (or lack of it passing) he had to have various tests including lumbar puncture and bowel biopsy. DH went with him for both which was seen as a bit odd by the Drs at the time. The consultant doing the bowel biopsy even asked if he (my dh) was going to hit him because he was worried ds would see blood and get upset. A more unlikely person to hit any one I can't think of TBH. I think maybe most parents let these tests happen without wanting to be there.

KAZ the scarf under the boob idea is brilliant. I am rather a large cup size and I must admit last time I always found manipulating my boobs into a good position a bit like trying to dock a super tanker in a very small quay