whats the current advice on drinking in pregnancy??

[SparklyGothKat]

not for me!! for misdee

Yes Libra and Aggiepanther - I had no aspartame or caffeine in my pregnancy, I don't recall eating fish either but since I don't eat it that often anyway I can't remember.

I'm not ashamed of being very careful. Ask anyone who's been through IVF - we don't take chances.

Fair enough RG, as you said IVF probably makes you more cautious but there is still no evidence that I can find (waiting on Star6) that proves low amounts of alcohol causes problems.
Alchohol is such an emotive topic that I don't think anyone is ever going to agree until we have concrete evidence and apparently research using pregnant women is frowned upon

"I don't think anyone is ever going to agree until we have concrete evidence and apparently research using pregnant women is frowned upon"

You can still do research, just not controlled experiments in lab conditions . Besides you could make the same argument about aspartame or msg which I am more wary of as generations have not been exposed to them.

Oh I totally agree, and I think because you can't do controlled experiments in lab then it is correct to be a little more wary even if the evidence doesn't exist, but you have to admit that alchol is one of the substances that has been quite well researched as far as it is able unlike something such as aspartame.

I have been far more careful during this pregnancy then during my first pregnancies, as I've had two miscarriages in the last year.

I just think women should have all of the correct information, and be allowed to make up their own minds without being judged. I find it patronising when someone says to me 'of course you're not drinking because you are pregnant' - I find that only serves to make me want alcohol!

Too many to go into I'm afraid. I meant self-induced health problems in general. Although actually I worked for a while on SCBU so I've seen a few cases of FAS too.

My main issue with all this is people's apparent obsession with fighting against the "establishment". Why is it assumed that health care professionals, when they give advice people don't like, are ignorant bullies, cruelly spoiling our fun for no good reason? Why can't people see that medics become medics so they can improve health, rather than resisting them and trying to find ways to undermine their advice?

It sometimes seems that taking gambles with health (and the health of an unborn child) is applauded, as a strong stand against a mean Big Brother!

If 100 people cross the M1 motorway during rush hour, some will die, some will be slightly injured, some will be seriously injured. But some will be absolutely fine. Still doesn't make it a good idea!

RachaelG - Why is the "establishment" making reccomendations that are not based on any evidence? That means they are causing worry and guilt for no good reason. I had to correct a colleague recently for stating that SN like ADHD were probably caused by mothers breaking the rules on drinking while pg. There is guilt, suspicion and misery spread by such nonsense.

Everything I do while pregnant may be taking a gamble with my unborn child. I had potatoes for lunch, should I worry about pesticides? There was a strong chemical smell like burning plastic on my street this morning - could the fumes contain dioxin? I don't have the option of moving to tellytubby land where everything is clean and safe. So I just have to get on and try and do the best I can.

--"If 100 people cross the M1 motorway during rush hour, some will die, some will be slightly injured, some will be seriously injured. But some will be absolutely fine. Still doesn't make it a good idea!"-----
Indeed - but the risk is obvious and severe. There is no evidence of any risks to the unborn from moderate consumption of alcohol. The scaremongering about it risks making mothers of children with SN feel terribly guilty and even stigmatised for no good reason. It also adds another unnecessary restriction to pregnant women - if I really want a glass of wine I should be allowed enjoy one, without this kind of misinformation and scaremongering.

If we accept this about alcohol, what next? Caffiene? Sweetners? Sugary foods? It is evident that people dissaprove of "sumo babies" so that is not as big a stretch as it might seem.

is it the medics who are giving this latest advice though? I thought it was the government?

The analogy about crossing the M1 doesn't really stand up. There is a clear risk with crossing the M1 - there isn't evidence for one with drinking a glass of wine. For drinking several glasses of wine on a regular basis then yes there is a clear risk.

Crossing a normal road on a pedestrian crossing carries a risk but you can't really avoid crossing a road. You can of course avoid having a glass of wine but there doesn't seem to be any reason to do so - any more than eating only organic food for example. Some people will avoid conventional food thinking that it lowers the risk to their baby - but there is no evidence to suggest it does.

Eating organic food and totally abstaining from alcohol are therefore no more than lifestyle choices and no one should be made to feel guilty for not making these lifestyle choices. Of course we may find out different in future but we can only act on the information that is available at the current time.

mrsboogie - NICE admitted when they came up with that new 'no alcohol' guideline a few months back that there was no evidence for it and that it was politically motivated, because the Government believe that telling women not to drink at all is the best way to stop them binge-drinking...

Both my GPs I saw when I found I was pregnant (at 14-15 weeks) told me a small glass of wine with dinner a few times a week was probably a good thing, and were much more anxious to tell me about the risks of pate and unwashed salads. They are also good GPs who keep abreast of current research and will consider any papers I show them (I used to be a medical researcher - specialising in embryology and neuroscience, so I've read a lot on this topic)

I phoned a midwife at 19 weeks just before going on holiday to France, as I'd been feeling faint. She was most reassuring, said a holiday was the best thing I could do, recommended one small glass of wine with dinner but not pate or blue cheeses, and to enjoy myself. Since then I've had a maximum of half a glass of wine once or twice a week.

I figure the risk of being a stressed mother, paranoid that one sip of wine is going to
damage the baby, or having to deal with judgemental people around her, is probably one of the biggest risk new mothers face now.

"NICE admitted when they came up with that new 'no alcohol' guideline a few months back that there was no evidence for it and that it was politically motivated, because the Government believe that telling women not to drink at all is the best way to stop them binge-drinking..."

To me that raises an interesting question: would that small minority of women who would have drank heavily under the old advice be persuaded by the new reccomendations to abstain?

I don't think they would TBH but am willing to listen to arguments from those who have worked with women who drank heavily while pregnant.

My pregnancy was very interesting because of circumstances I was under a French midwife and an English midwife.

The English midwife said NO ALCOHOL and no more than 6 cups of tea per day.

The French midwife said NO TEA and no more than one glass of wine with your evening meal!

Makes you wonder, hey?

I've been told that caffiene is much more harmful when taken in high amounts on a daily basis! Something about it contracting the babys vessels and effecting his/her circulation during development. (Don't know how much of this is true)
Subsequently, Ive taken to decaff tea and coffee and very occasionally had caffienated when at friends or out. Haven't missed at all, although initially the first few days I was feeling lethargic.

As for wine, well I made it a rule that no alcohol would pass my lips until 20 weeks, and since then I've probably enjoyed a glass a week with DH. (I'm now 40+2, and waiting impatiently for things to happen!!)

I think it's down to that old cliche - "everything in moderation" yeah yeah bla bla bla!

I've been told that caffiene is much more harmful when taken in high amounts on a daily basis! Something about it contracting the babys vessels and effecting his/her circulation during development. (Don't know how much of this is true)
Subsequently, Ive taken to decaff tea and coffee and very occasionally had caffienated when at friends or out. Haven't missed at all, although initially the first few days I was feeling lethargic.

As for wine, well I made it a rule that no alcohol would pass my lips until 20 weeks, and since then I've probably enjoyed a glass a week with DH. (I'm now 40+2, and waiting impatiently for things to happen!!)

I think it's down to that old cliche - "everything in moderation" yeah yeah bla bla bla!

Your friend was onto a good thing, StarlightMcKensie!!! I think what we should and shouldn't eat and do is a mixture of cultural beliefs and science. But... it is just a guess based on my experiences but I am no dr!!!

I noticed your body and your mind help too... anything that feels wrong probably is. When I was in my 1st trimester the alcohol isle in Tescos made me feel sick (just seeing the bottles) and I couldn't stand anything with caffine in - it tasted like bleech!

TettyLouBar I think you are right about the whole moderation thing - by the way good luck with the oncoming weeks! Enjoy those first deeply precious and special moments!

Rachael G - it has absolutely nothing to do with fighting against 'the establishment' and everything to do with being a fairly intelligent person who looks for evidence and information before making choices rather than blindly accepting what I'm told.

I was a health care professional myself for 12 years and so I know that they are doing a difficult job in difficult circumstances but are only human and cannot be experts in everything - they are so busy doing their jobs that they have to rely on government guidelines to keep them up to date. I certainly didn't have time to research each condition as thoroughly as I'm sure some of my (more expert) patients did.

notcitrus - as far as I can see NICE haven't said no alcohol, there guidelines from March 2008 still say 1-2 units once or twice a week. The Department of Health have said NO alcohol.

Thanks teafortwo,
I'm sooo excited I'm ready to burst - literally. Very aprehensive about birth as this is our first, but she can't stay in there forever!!

TettyLouBar, I was very, very nervous before my daughter was born but actually giving birth is just like anything in life - once you start you just sort of get on with it! Then once all the pushing is over and the initial micro-second of shock melts away you will have such an absolutley unbelievable magical time... and I'll tell you a secret, my dd is 2 now and so far being her Mummy, well, it just gets better and better!!! Have fun - enjoy the ride!

By the way, to keep this threads theme going... on the way home from the hospital me, my Mum, my dp and 4 day old daughter stopped at a pizzeria for lunch to celebrate her birth and I had a nice glass of red wine and blue cheese on my pizza - some of the things I had really been missing during my pregnancy!!! Ha ha ha!!!

rachaelG, it's interesting to see the way that, having first mentioned that you are a GP, then bristled about knowing more about antibiotic prescribing than anyone else on here, you then completely personalised the alcohol question with ref to your own situation, undermined the arguments on her by suggesting they were motivated by a desire to fight the establishment (the one that you've made it perfectly clear you're part of) and then tried to substantiate your point with a far-from-analogous example.

it's the sort of thing i hear from GPs a lot, tbh. i prefer dealing with consultants and higher up, tbh, they tend to be less precious ime, more open to talking seriously about research. i realise that this is a benefit of specialisation, that they have the luxury of knowing a lot about a little, iykwim?

GPs in my experience, are great gatekeepers, but rarely have a terrific understanding of the specifics. i respect my own GP, but what i like best about her is her willingness to think about things from a new angle. even if it's just to say 'hmmm, i'm not sure that is right because x, y or z research would contradict it.' and THEN she says 'i'll look it up.' and she does. no similes or homilies, i'm relieved to say but i still wouldn't go to her for expert advice, tbh.

PS she likes me too, i should say, i'm not a horror patient. just someone who shared a flat with a lot of medical students and remembers how terrified they all were (and remembers also that they didn't have better exam results than me...)

tettylou, just go with the flow, don't set your heart on anything in particular with regards to the birth plan, and remember that it's sore, but somehow (imo) it's a very natural, progressive sore that is really getting you somewhere.

i felt like the very best parts of my character (strength, humour, perseverance etc, which can often be in short supply) came together to deal with labour, and i'd do it all again in an instant tbh. there have been quite a few threads from women who enjoyed their labours, you should have a search for them.

Erm a GP is a consultant.

RachealG - what would you prescribe for hayfever in a 34 week pregnant woman?

you know what i mean, consultant level and above in hospitals... not general practitioners...