whats the current advice on drinking in pregnancy??

[SparklyGothKat]

not for me!! for misdee

Thank you!

I'm another one of the "everything in moderation" crew. Felt too sick for the first 12 weeks (and not a good idea anyway in my view) to drink, but since then had the occasional glass. Not risk free, but life isn't either, and my DDs so far are ok on a similar diet.

Chequers, by the time you are that pg the baby is only getting fatter so have a glass on your birthday. When I was overdue with DD1, my consultant recommended a glass of champagne, followed by lobster and sex to get things going. She said that the champagne would make me feel better if it didn't work! I would certainly have a good glass if it were me, but you can probably have guessed that from this post anyway!

Cheers

I have to say that I love drinking wine but when I was pregnant the view was a glass 1 or 2 times a week was ok....but when I poured that glass, for some reason I just couldnt face it.

Maybe I should get pregnant to stop me drinking ...off to persuade DP.....

Mssparkle, thanks for talking a lot of sense!

Starlight, the fact that there is yet not enough evidence of what constitutes a safe amount to drink in pregnancy doesn't necessarily mean that there is a safe amount!
Research is needed, but in the meantime the safe option is really no alcohol at all. You say "trust your istincts", well unfortunately this is a scientific matter,instinct doesn't comeinto it. If you are convinced that booze is safe in pregnancy doesn't make it true!

What you can say is "look, maybe even a small quantity of alcohol is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk". That would be more honest imo!

Seashell, you would have just as much basis for stating that:

"look, maybe even a small quantity of broccoli is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk".

"look, maybe even a small quantity of chocolate is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk".

"look, maybe even a small quantity of herbal tea is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk".

"look, maybe even a small quantity of lemonade is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk".

"look, maybe even a small quantity of meat is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk".

"look, maybe even a small quantity of rice is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk".

"look, maybe even a small quantity of artificial sweetner is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk".

"look, maybe even a small quantity of artificial flavouring is toxic to baby, nobody knows for sure, but in the meantime it's my choice and I choose to take that risk".

etc. Bet you can't prove any of those things are safe. Is your diet restricted to organic produce? Even then how can you know everything you eat is safe? Do you sometimes breath in fumes from cars

In practise most of us draw the line somewhere. We can't live in a bubble of pure air, eating and drinking only things that have been proven safe, so we avoid anything where there is evidence to show it is harmful. No evidence means no moral dilemma.

Upwind is right. Just a quick point about these 'risk free' choices: my family's meat-free diet is organic and two weeks ago my daughter ate quite a few Waitrose Columbian Blacktail free-range organic eggs -from the patch that was withdrawn a few days afterwards because the bloody free chickens had gone and eaten lead shots...

Arguing about what is safe and what not during pregnancy raises the level of cortisol and adrenaline -hormones in the body, especially cortisol being b-a-d for the unborn baby .

First of all, I have drunk wine while pregnant, including, the first time, a small glass of wine every night for a week on holiday at 7months. But there is some evidence that alcohol damages the blastocyst even before implantation and causes miscarriage and may cause other damage. There is evidence that while Foetal Alcohol Syndrome is rare, drinking in pregnancy seems to cause smaller behavioural and attention problems in children that are very persistent. I think drinking patterns have changed so much in the last 50 years as to become unrecognisable, and researchers are worried about the effect of this on babies. I suspect there is little risk from drinking one or two units a week, but I think lots of people equate a unit with a drink. And a small pub glass of wine is 175ml, and if the wine is 13% then that's 2.3 units. Two of those is 4.6 units.
One large pub glass 250ml of 14% wine (chardonnay for example) is 3.5 units.
I drank wine when I was pregnant, but in the hugely unlikely event of getting pregnant again, I probably wouldn't, bar the odd weeny glass of champagne on a special occasion.
I found a glass of tonic, with ice and lemon make a good g&t substitute, and half a small glass of wine with soda is OK too if you have a craving.

meat isn't toxic to unborn babies! And neither is broccoli.

MsDemeanor - I think you mean Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD). They are still rare. I would be interested in comparing the statistics on the prevalance of FASD, with estimates of the number of female alcoholics of childbearing age.

I have a suspicion that the numbers would suggest that children with FASD are lkiely children of those with drinking problems. But it would be difficult to do research in this area because the researchers would have no way of knowing how much the mothers in question really drank (or the fathers), and the identification of FASD on the basis of small behavioural and attention problems is tenuous at best. There are so many other factors that will come into play by that time.

I think another problem the research into FASD is having is limiting the other factors that come into play i.e. is an alcholic more likely to be a heavy smoker and/or a drug user as well. There is no real way a researcher can march up to 100 pregnant women and say do you mind drinking a bottle of vodka a day but abstaining from any other behaviour that might influence the development of the foetus!

oh and I'm really looking forward to my large glass of wine with my chinese tonight

gosh this thread isn't half active!

The thing about risk that many people have a problem understanding is that there is no such thing as "no risk". From anything. Practically everything in life is a hazard whether pregnant or not (there is a risk associated with driving, using computers, drinking caffeine - so we have all probably taken a risk already today). You cannot even say there is no risk from drinking a glass of water - a recent study is supposed to show that compounds arising out of the chlorination process cause birth defects.

What we have to do in order to negotiate life as safely as we can is to manage the risks so that they are as small as possible while still living a relatively normal life. This requires us to have some idea of what the risks are. In terms of alcohol the evidence is that moderate drinking causes no harm and may even be beneficial to the child while getting drunk on a regular basis may result in serious problems in some cases.

Some people would say that we should only eat organic food while pregnant because there is a risk to the fetus from pesticide residues. There might be. As we know chocolate contains caffeine which is toxic to humans. However the government doesn't dictate safe levels of chocolate to be eaten in pregnancy or that we should all go organic for nine months. But it does recommend abstaining from alcohol on the basis of no evidence that moderate consumption does any harm. This is because alcohol is an emotive subject and we Brits seem to think that we have a collective drinking problem.

All those people who think that they are eliminating a risk to their babies by not having the odd glass of wine are probably only reducing a relatively very tiny risk while simultaneously carrying on with other normal "safe" behaviours which may carry relatively more risk.

So there is absolutely no evidence that having the odd glass of wine is any more harmful to your baby than consuming a host of other things that the Medical profession does not see fit to pronounce on at this time. If you don't fancy it - great. If you do fancy it and are unable to restrict your drinking to moderate levels then you have probably got a problem.

"However the government doesn't dictate safe levels of chocolate to be eaten in pregnancy "

Ah but it does dictate safe levels of caffeine whilst pregnant and this includes chocolate.

MrsBoogie - yes, if you are unable to stop after one drink you should abstain from alcohol. And not just during pregnancy.

But I don't think the new govt advice will actually make any difference to women who were going to binge drink anyway. Instead they add another bit of stress and restrict the 91% of pregnant women who would never have exceeded the old (and still arbitrary) recomendations. As aiti72 pointed out, cortisol and adrenaline are definitely bad for the unborn child!

I have a wedding to go to in October when it will (hopefully) be very obvious that I am pregnant. If I toast the happy couple with champagne, will I be looked at with disapproval for ignoring Nanny State advice? I bet I will be.

I totally avoided any alcohol during the first trimester. Since then have had 1 glass of Pimms on 2 occasions - both times when I was eating as well.

The current advice is to totally avoid alcohol during pregnancy and the first trimester is particularly key.

I take the view that 1 small drink with a meal (and then only very occasionallY) in later pregnancy really really is very unlikely to do any harm (and I did check that with my doc who said it was fine), but that's really the limit - if you can't exert the willpower to stop at one, don't have any!

Tip for anyone who is really craving... you can make a very small white wine spritzer or pimms last a very long time by continually topping up with soda / lemonade!

libra1975 - it does so rather loosely in terms of tea and coffee drinking. I wouldn't have a clue how much caffeine is contained in chocolate or, therefore, what level I shouldn't exceed. If the Govt was to take the same approach with caffeine as it does with alcohol we would be told not to touch tea, coffee, chocolate, cola etc.

upwind. I agree. I am a bit of a hypocrite on that front myself - even though i have examined the evidence and understand the risk (or lack of evidence) and am happy to have two glasses of wine a week while pregnant I would feel uncomfortable to be seen drinking in public while obviously pregnant. This is because I would be aware of an assumption on the part of those observing me that drinking one glass of wine = getting drunk on a regular basis.

another problem with collecting data on FASD is that (according to police and paramedics i know), alcoholics find it very hard to be truthful about their intake. junkies, otoh, are very honest about what they're on and how much etc.

Mrsboogie, all the information I have seen about caffeine and pregnancy is couched in the terms "that means you can have 2 cans of cola, one cup or tea and 2 bars of chocolate" (this is an example!) so we differ there. I am lucky that in the first trimester I completely lost my diet coke and tea habit!!

Upwind, I have been drinking in public (not walking down the streets but at parties, resturants etc) it is your body and you will probably have to get used to the disapproving looks if you decide to breastfeed in public!

Anne76 - there is no way I could stop at 1 pimms!

libra1975 - blimey - I haven't seen anything like that - but maybe that's partly the point. The "don't touch alcohol" message is everywhere - you probably have to look for the information about caffeine for yourself. That gives the impression that the risk from alcohol is worse, or the risk of people being unable to control their consumption is worse - but there are plenty of chocoholics and cola addicts about ;)

I have had 7 children, all ok and have drunk different amounts of alcohol with all of them only really avoiding in the first three months(after finding out I was pregnant) mostly cos it made me feel sick. Have also had regular amounts of wine while bf. Eldest is about to go to Oxford so not affected her brains anyway..........

I drank small amounts when I was pregnant definitely under 2 units when I did. I once indulged in a champagne cocktail in my third trimester and it made my dd very restless so I can fully beleive it does affect the foetus.

when I have a glass of mine my LO gets active too - its probably the sugar content.

Hello,

its a bit off the beaten track and way up high in the thread, but In fact freezing does not kill bacteria, it either temporarily stops or immensely slows their growth.

On the other hand, cooking (ie heat) does kill bacteria.

I heard the current advice on alcohol in pg is none.
I've had a few sips and might have a reet
small of glass of something when I'm on holiday as personal choice!

i think with raw fish the problem is worms, and freezing kills them? i think, anyway...

Yes worms in raw fish. ugh.

Drinking cold water can make the foetus restless!