NCT courses- any good?

[rieb95]

Hey,

So I've heard about the NCT antenatal courses and was considering signing up for one. But I've heard very mixed reviews of people saying the content itself is poor and they are only really good for making friends...

I don't have any pregnant friends so that would be a bonus but I just wondered what your experiences had been of the courses if you did one ? I don't have much knowledge of looking after a baby so even if they covered things very basically I think it may still benefit me. I just don't want to spend the money if one of the free courses would be just as good 🤷

Thanks for your advice

I have only had negative experiences of the NCT I'm afraid. I just typed them out in detail but it made a very long rambling post so I've deleted most of it. But in a nutshell, 3 different groups in different parts of the country (i kept trying because every group is different right?) - ostracised for not being the "right" demographic at one, given some truly terrible breastfeeding advice at another and literally told I was an neglectful mother because I was going back to work at the third. (I gave up at that point)
But the worst is what happened to one of my friends. She went to her local antenatal classes and became obsessed with natural childbirth as a result. Which might have been ok, were it not for the fact that her pregnancy was far from straightforward. I won't tell the full story as it's not mine to tell, but suffice it to say there was a tragic outcome. I don't blame the NCT leader for that. I do think she advised my friend poorly, but the same things might have happened anyway and her advice was not the direct cause, though it didn't help. But it is what happened afterwards that still makes me burn with anger many years later. Did these new "friends" rally round to offer her support in her darkest times? Like hell they did. They dropped her like a hot stone, leaving her, in her distress, believing that they despised her and that she had let them down. "Sorry, too upsetting" was what her DH was told when he made contact asking if anyone would visit or at least phone. OK, I can just about buy that from the other Mums who hadn't given birth yet, but what about you, Mrs "Trust your body not the doctors"? What's your excuse? Where were you when my friend was experiencing almost unfathomable distress?
Of course it's perfectly possible that I have just been very unlucky to encounter unpleasant people in 4 different groups, but I couldn't recommend, based on my experiences.

everyone else is buying top of the range breast pumps, prams etc and able to splurge on meet ups.

We definitely didn’t! We met for coffee several times when on maternity leave.

Some of these responses are awful to be honest. Can you imagine a thread about the free antenatal course at the hospital and me saying I wouldn’t go because it would be full of poor people who didn’t give a shit about their kids and probably smoked? That would be such a stupid and horrible thing to say. But it’s OK to slate people who spent money at a time when to get anything you had to?

@Purplefoxes I completely understand why you feel so resentful about it - I would too in your shoes. The point I am trying to make is it is unfortunately bad luck that the women in your group were so nasty and spiteful the same way as it is bad luck the girl in my class was so horrible to me at school and managed to create a little group who loved torturing me mentally. I never reported to parents or teachers so I can't place all the blame on the school for not handling it. I'll admit, there were signs which I think they should have investigated but that is another topic entirely. Ultimately, many others have had a fantastic experience at that school and will recommended. Generalisations like 'If however you are competitive, enjoy sneering at and judging other people for their lifestyles and choices, think you are superior to others in all ways, want to be the leader of a pack of followers then this is the place for you' are not representative

We have differing incomes in our group. We are lucky that we are like minded and none of us wanted to waste money in coffee shops every week, we much preferred meeting at home and those who had the space hosted with absolutely no ill feeling that others were not able to reciprocate. We shared costs for snacks and meals and would often spend entire days just lounging around, chatting whilst feeding/putting newborns to sleep.

I know I am so so lucky with my group - we are a complete mix of natural births/induction/c-section, same for breast/formula, then moving onto blw/spoon feeding, our styles of discipline are not the same and some of us are using state education with others private. There is no judgement, we support each other and will all parent each others' children like our own. I would trust every one of those women with my children without hesitation

I’m not slating people for spending money. I’m spending money too. But it’s notable that my NCT group is affluent and I suspect it would feel very insular to anyone who wasn’t.

@Sleepygrumpyandnothappy - I do understand that and I wasn’t noticing your post as hugely jumping out as unpleasant or too broad in sweeping statements. Anything that charges money is going to exclude some of the population, and the more money that is charged the more people will be excluded.

However

annoying competitive mc mums … constant(ly) braying

don’t do it if you are sensitive or weren’t part of the popular crowd at school

if you enjoy sneering at and judging other people for their lifestyles and choices, think you are superior to others in all ways, then this is the place for you

They are awful things to say - and they are about the people on the course, not the course itself. I know not everyone likes the course which is fine. But how is it acceptable to claim everyone who signs up for a particular course is ‘like that’? It’s not, surely?

Wow you've really hooked into that one part of an earlier message @morechocolateneededtoday and @Neverfullycharged haven't you? Do you work for NCT? I think what it should have said is this: you should be prepared that you may end up in a group with people who are competitive, enjoy sneering at and judging other people for their lifestyles and choices, think they are superior to others in all ways, want to be the leader of a pack of followers"

for the balance you crave then I will also say

"you may equally end up with lovely people who are wonderful, non judgemental, supportative and BFFs for life". Unfortunately it wasn't my experience but it could be yours, if you are lucky!

@Purplefoxes - both @morechocolateneededtoday and I responded perfectly nicely and pleasantly to you. You posted very long messages to people warning them off NCT because of the horrible people who apparently do it - the only point is I’m not horrible and I am sure @morechocolateneededtoday Is not horrible either.

We did spend a fair amount of time in coffee shops, though, once they opened again anyway.

Might be a stupid question here but when exactly do you join the NCT? I’m 12 weeks and not sure when I should join anything….?! I’m lucky that I’ll be living with my mum for support the first year who can show me everything so I’m really just wanting to make friends as I’m the only one I know pregnant. Obviously anything I can learn too would be great. So should I look to join now?

@MrsAvocet I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences that is awful to have a crap experience 3 times, you clearly had more faith than I did to endure that! Your poor friend not only to be given advice which could have potentially been harmful (we will never know for sure!) but then to receive zero support and basically be shunned by her group when she needed the support the most because they were too selfish to care. Ugh..let me guess, your friend was told she should avoid all interventions, go over her due date without induction even if high risk etc.. at the end of the day it is the mother's choice but it should be a properly informed one..come to think of it how do NCT regulate their advice and practioners?!

@Kentgirl2525 if you put your due date into the course finder on the website it will recommend the best sessions, but generally you aim to finish 3-6 weeks before your due date.

Err I haven't called either of you horrible at any point, and at no point have I been unpleasant to you. I wonder why are you trying to subvert the content of my message? I said I met a friend there, clearly we would not be friends if everyone was horrible?

I'm not trying to warn people off the NCT, they can make their own minds up! I am simply sharing my experience when the OP asked people's opinions if it was worth it. In my opinion it is not for the aforementioned experience, in your opinion it is based on your experience. I haven't said your opinion isn't valid. You would like only to hear the positive experiences? Why is that I wonder? Why don't you think my experience counts or the other lady that's had 4 negative experiences and a few others in here? What is the point of asking a question if you only hear one side of the coin or you do you not like hearing my experience because it doesn't fit with your own? Or do you think there is something wrong with me for not having a positive experience? I'm genuinely intrigued. I've posted some of the things that were said to me, do you think that I deserved to be told those things by someone claiming to be a friend?

You clearly encountered some really horrible women at a time when you were vulnerable. I have a lot of empathy for you there because I have been bullied before and the insecurities stick for life.

BUT the judgements you made about women who do NCT were despicable. To judge and label an entire group of women the way you did is about as far from kind as you get. I found them extremely offensive but refrained from being rude in retaliation

you should be prepared that you may end up in a group with people who are competitive, enjoy sneering at and judging other people for their lifestyles and choices, think they are superior to others in all ways, want to be the leader of a pack of followers
Hate to break it to you but this can happen in any social situation - read the number of posts of women who discuss having these problems in baby groups/school gate/other activities. Same for those who end up with nasty colleagues. NCT courses are well known for making friends and getting much needed social support - it was reasonable to hope that others were in that boat too. Sorry it didn't work that way for you

You’re not trying to warn people off but

don’t do it if you are sensitive or weren’t part of the popular crowd at school

if you enjoy sneering at and judging other people for their lifestyles and choices, think you are superior to others in all ways, then this is the place for you

As PP said, put due date into the website and it will tell you which courses are best. If you are unsure about anything, just send an email and they are usually quite quick at getting back to you. They can also tell you how full the courses get and how early to book

In the end, people simply have to choose if they want to meet some people who will give birth at a similar time to them and hear about childbirth.

When you join anything, there’s no guaranteeing who will or won’t be part of the event. In my view, most people you meet are nice. In my view, when you spend time with people about to encounter the same big life event as yourself, you tend to have a lot in common. So I’d give it a go.

I’m not sure this thread has helped anyone thinking about NCT. Someone somewhere might have encountered a horrible person on NCT, but I think there has been a lot of generalising too, which suggests that everyone is highly competitive and into natural birth. That is so simplistic and so much of a generalisation.

Does it attract a certain demographic? Probably yes. Most people who go are more middle class. Is that a barrier? It might be for some people, but being middle class isn’t in itself a problem and all middle class organisation to be avoided. Does it try to be inclusive? Well yes, it thinks its teaching is useful for all expectant mothers and wants to be inclusive, offering free or reduced places, but the reality is that most people in the courses will be middle class. Some people will be out off by that. As another has said, some people might be put off going to other services offered by former SureStart or whatever on the basis of prejudices about working class people and you could say therefore the organisations are not inclusive. It’s a weak argument.

If you want to learn about childbirth and meet other Mums who will be off work and who will be keen to meet up, probably in coffee shops etc, and are open to mixing with whoever you find in the group, it can be great.
If however, you’ve already read lots or are going to another provider of birthing classes and don’t really like certain groups of people or enjoy meeting new people people, it probably isn’t for you.

I maintain that those who either had one negative experience of specific individuals and who the extrapolate that to the whole organisation, are probably people who generally don’t like groups which are formed of strangers or organised teaching of the type NCT provide. It’s best those people recognise it’s probably not for them, but also that this might be a personal thing rather than a fault in the whole organisation.

Does anyone know if hospitals are doing antenatal courses now?

No if course I don't think ALL people who do NCT are like that! And I'm sorry if that's how it came across in my original post. I did NCT. I am not like that, neither is my friend. But in the group I went to 3/8 persons in our group were unfortunately like that. Not a great statistic! And other people who posted before me had very similar experiences...I can only talk about NCT because I didn't go to another antenatal group. Perhaps they are the same? Yes cliques exist but I did not have this experience at my son's school nor anywhere else or baby groups I've been to. Maybe because it's not the same pressure cooker environment.

You've selectively taken parts of what I wrote out of context again. I also said:

"you may equally end up with lovely people who are wonderful, non judgemental, supportative and BFFs for life". Unfortunately it wasn't my experience but it could be yours, if you are lucky!

Do you work for NCT? I asked it earlier too.

Honestly Op anyone can bath and put a nappy on. They’ve made raising a baby into a black art but mostly so you can be sold a ton of crap no one needs. You learn as you go along and pick up hints and tips when needed.
Anyway I had a brilliant NCT group. We had a lovely photo of all our babies at about 6 months plopped up on a sofa. We have just had the same photo of them all at 18! We don’t see each other much but we definitely bonded over out firsts. I got a discount as a poor single mum and I would say it is quite middle class. I didn’t find it cliquey though. If anything it was a bit of a leveller.

@WombatChocolate you've said one breath that you don't like people generalising mums that go to the NCT and yet you've just in the next breath generalised anyone who had a bad experience of NCT when you said:

"I maintain that those who either had one negative experience of specific individuals and who the extrapolate that to the whole organisation, are probably people who generally don’t like groups which are formed of strangers or organised teaching of the type NCT provide. It’s best those people recognise it’s probably not for them, but also that this might be a personal thing rather than a fault in the whole organisation"

So according to the above, those who had a negative experience must not like groups or organised teaching? I had a negative experience in my NCT course, I'm part of lots of groups outside NCT and regularly participate with organised teaching at work, plus I also enjoy craft sessions with organised teaching. I network as part of my job and attend conferences with strangers on a weekly basis. How are you so sure that it is a personal problem with said individuals and there isn't actually a problem with the NCT format? Read back on the thread, there are some common themes I've seen. It's a bit like washing over other people's bad experiences and saying oh well they don't count as just isolated and it's probably their fault anyway. And I think that's actually quite insulting and a little bit victim blaming. It's luck of the drawer who you get but there has to be a way that it could be improved to avoid experiences like mine and @MrsAvocet

Yes probably anyone can but they might not feel confident enough to do it.

I went to classes at the local health centre. I was the first to deliver and walked down to the centre with baby in his pram when he was 8 days. One of the other mums asked if she could hold him, she said she was so scared about the coming baby as she'd never held a baby in her life. So I handed her the baby and the HV and I were encouraging her to support his head, then put him up on her chest and tap his back to get some wind up and then maybe get up and have a walk round with him. She was so happy and 15 minutes with my teaching aid (oops I mean son) had made her feel so much more able to cope.

Maybe they should ask the last class to come along with their babies so women like her in the new class could actually hold a baby.

I come from a big family, lots of little cousins (20 something but I lost count) so it seemed amazing to me that someone could be an adult and scared of a baby but she was.

There is no room for misinterpretation of the sweeping generalisations you made on your first post - you have said that everyone who is pro NCT is like that.

Re-read your post - I have taken nothing out of context. By your own admission, the part I quoted is your view but then 'for balance' you added "you may equally end up with lovely people who are wonderful, non judgemental, supportative and BFFs for life". Unfortunately it wasn't my experience but it could be yours, if you are lucky!. Had you only written this part from the outset alongside your experience, no-one would have challenged you.

If you are unable to see how rude and insulting your original message is by generalising thousands of women based on your experience of your single group, this is more a reflection on you than anyone else.

No I do not work for the NCT. If you look closely at my first post, you will see my list the negatives of the course content itself however I signed up solely to make friends and I thankfully got what I wanted and more from those friendships which is why my view is so positive.

I do sometimes wonder if @WombatChocolate is correct in her analysis - as an adult, I have not encountered issues in any of the dramas that so many women post on here about. When I have met someone who gives me vibes that they don't like me, I give them a wide berth and certainly do not make sweeping generalisations about the entire organisation/school/group based on it

I must admit I do roll my eyes a bit at ‘the only thing you have in common is you had a baby at the same time.’

Ummm yes and that’s quite a big thing, isn’t it? More of a link than ‘both did A level English lit at the same time’ ‘both in Mr Williams’ tutor group in Y8’ ‘we both worked at the same office.’

I think @WombatChocolate gave a good post. I don’t think you’re ever going to have perfection from your friends, or your partner. I know our group isn’t perfect, but I am not perfect myself and I can’t demand this of my friends.

I've already clarified what I said earlier on and I did not mean to generalise as I have already said, it's an emotional subject, however you still keep repeating the same thing over and over leaping in on one single thing I said which I've already explained, isn't that trolling?

You say above "as an adult, I have not encountered issues in any of the dramas that so many women post on here about" ah well of course they can't possibly be true or valid experiences then can they if YOU haven't personally experienced them and it must be some defect of those people at fault because you are wonderful and therefore never had those problems 🤣 talk about acting superior..... Wow just wow. Small wonder then you don't like what I said about SOME women on those groups acting superior, perhaps it touched a nerve? I came on here to share my experience of NCT, I've done that. I don't want this pettiness (exactly the sort of thing I was talking about) to derail the OPs thread any further. I'm so done. @rieb95 OP all I'm saying is don't expect the world on the friend front, not everyone will be nice, don't let anyone treat you poorly and be careful what advice and cross reference it with other sources and other mums if you can.

I wanted a class to show me how to hold a baby, how to bath them, how to change a nappy, how to make up a bottle, safe sleeping in a cot - practical things for someone who hadn’t held a baby before. I wasn’t looking for new friends and didn’t go to any baby groups but there doesn’t seem to be a basic course

I found NCT too focused on the labour and birth. That's only a small part of it. Hardly anything about caring for your baby after.