Are all children this badly behaved?

[nairn]

I am preggers and had some friends with children round on saturday. One is 3 the other is 18 months.
They were a complete nightmare. Screaming, destroying my house, throwing tantrums. My poor mate couldn't even have a converstation for running around trying to stop them tearing down my Christmas tree - she can't have one because they would do the same in their own house.
I have been left feeling very worried that this is what the future holds for me.
I know kids will be kids but this was a living hell.
How do you stop that happening to you and continue to have a normal life of some sort?
I must admit I'm feeling really down about the whole thing now.
She said things like 'all this lovely stuff will have to go' and I couldn't' help thinking 'but I don't want my house turned into toys r us!' I like my nice home and I don't want a child - my own or someone elses - to destroy it!
Help! Tell me it's not always like this!

The great thing about parenthood is it's incremental. You don't go into labour and give birth to a screaming 2 yr old. You have a cutesy wootsy lickle bubba to fall in love with first. And by the time you've fallen in love with them and they've grown into a normal toddler (which is what your friend's kids sound like!) you'll be well used to the chaos your orderly life has descended into.

Hats off to your friend even attempting an adult csocial occasion with two under 3 yrs old, though! She'll no doubt be a great source of solidarity and support to you when your little one is a terrible two yr old .

number 3 on that list certainly applies to some degree

I'm sure she will be a great source of support and I must add she had no idea how I was feeling. Would never dream of hurting her feelings - would rather have the house trashed frankly. Just so no one thinks the poor woman went home thinking I was watching her every move and scowling at her!

Do you have any reason to suspect she might be a Mumsnetter...?

Naive first timer here, regrets reading this post now... OMG What have I done!!!

No I really don't think so. She lives in the far east now and is only over visiting for three weeks.

You continue to have a normal life because it becomes your normal life. It isn't always like that - it's only like that in other people's childless houses. Your own house will look like a penitent monk's cell once your oldest child is moving.

Sambiclaus -aw don't feel like that, listen to what nearly everyone is saying. Having kids is messy and noisy for most people and they don't care! Dcs bring far more to a house than chaos, they bring unconditional and overwhelming feelings of love and that puts things into perspective.

here is the proof

Ladies I'm going to have to dash as I have some Christmas shopping to do. But I wanted to say thanks for sharing your stories and views with me. It has been both entertaining and enlightening. You all seem to be happy with the way you and your children are living and that's really all that matters at the end of the day.
I'm taking away from this a bit of common sense, a few reality checks and still a little bit of idealism! If my bubble gets burst then so be it!
Thanks and good luck to us all!

Idly speculating (not aimed at nairn)...

1. Could apply or not, depending on range of things on how easy it is for you to lose weight post-natally. Let's assume that you are a Paula Radcliffe type and can be fairly confident it won't apply to you.

1. Is for men, so technically won't apply to you. Let's eliminate it on that technicality.

1. Some might feel that making comments on a parenting board suggesting that teaching children right from wrong will more or less guarantee good behaviour falls into this category, even if you follow it up with "I'm not judging my friend as a parent, I know she tries her best and is a great mum." (OK, that bit was kind of aimed at nairn, but only in an affectionate way. We have all been there, more or less)

1. I guess if you are planning to hire a full-time night nanny you could know this wouldn't apply to you. Or to do CIO from birth (which no one short of Claire Verity recommends, not even Gina Ford). Otherwise this is one of the luck-of-the-draw things.

1. To be fair, I think being this bad is unusual. You can't know it won't apply to you, but you'd be unlucky to have it this bad. Mind you, as we've eliminated #2 on a technicality we really ought to retain this one on a technicality (of not "knowing").

1. I have never come across a small child this doesn't apply to, so don't see that anyone could know it wouldn't apply to them. Unless hiring a full-time day nanny as well as a full-time night nanny.

1. Again, I think being this bad is unusual. Same as #5, really.

1. Oh yes, this is true. Unless you have your child strapped into a buggy until they are old enough to walk to school unaccompanied. Why is each individual piece of gravel so fascinating? And sticks? And lichen? (mind you, plus side is that DS has been able to identify lichen since he was just-turned-two, so gains me extra smug "look at my PFB's wonderful vocabulary" points). I'd be surprised if anyone could know this wouldn't apply to them.

1. Pretty likely, I'd have thought. I can't see that anyone could know this wouldn't apply.

10. DS doesn't eat or destroy anything in the supermarket in fact he's very helpful but he does have his goat-like qualities (a very nice and well-behaved goat, as goats go, but still distinctly goaty). Supermarket shopping with him is fine, but I do wonder how it will work out when we have two (although by the time DD is mobile DS will be older, of course). This is the sort of thing that people think they know won't apply to them. I am reasonably sure I thought that myself. But not the sort of thing you can be sure about.

11. If you do BLW then I guess this won't apply. The mess won't be any better, but the process will be different.

12. Will probably happen. Even if you are one of the very small minority who doesn't allow your child to watch television, rather than the much larger group who intend not to allow your child to watch television but lapse some time before his/her second birthday. DS has never watched a single episode of Thomas the Tank Engine. Does it appear to have affected his total recall of the characters? Not in the slightest. I have no idea how this works. Perhaps it's quantum...?

By my reckoning, 12 things.

three of them (1, 2, 11) you could know won't apply without attracting any opprobium.
two of them (4, 6) you could know won't apply if you had nannies working 24/7 or were Claire Verity, so might get a bit controversial (especially if you are Claire Verity) (P.S. nairn -- if you are Claire Verity I suggest keeping quiet about it).
two of them (5, 7) are very unlikely to be as bad as suggested. But "knowing" they won't happen at all would be pushing it a bit far.
The other five (3, 8, 9, 10, 12) are either very likely or just luck of the draw.

I know, I'm a bit of a planner and the realism from here has prepared me greatly!! At least DH is a bit more sensible about these things. I suppose I'm a typical childless person thinking along the lines of...."My child won't be like/act like..." Then the parents smile sweetly, ooooh just you wait...

The comfort I've taken from this thread is that it's a gradual behaviour decline and you don't notice it.

And I can't wait for my little devil to arrive, if she's anything like me - she's gonna be a handful.. My mother is so smug about it...

It applies to everyone, trust me. I thought I knew what I was doing because I have nephews and nieces, I was a wreck.

On the other hand, parenthood is something that you cannot describe, so nothing we can say can possibly have meaning to you now.

Just know, however, that when in two years time you are posting in despair that dc has bitten the head of his/her pet bat or similar, we will nobly not remind you of this thread

o-oh, that idea of "a great believer that they fit into their parents lives - not the other way around."

Hmm, my sister has always lived by that ideal, whereas I always assumed that our lives would have to change radically once ds came along. It did.

I have to say that I don't honestly believe my sister ever really 'gelled' as a parent, and she and her daughter seem much more distant than ds and I.

But that is justy one family's experience ....

LOL Lemonaid, I nearly did pretty much the same post as you.

A few of them can be ruled out just by being very rich, which is fine, but otherwise I can't see how you can avoid most of them except by delegating your child pretty much entirely to other people, even having a separate car for your child, I suppose (in which case why not just have a separate house?)

The shopping one can be easily avoided by shopping online. (Or living on a big farm and growing everything yourself.)

re the child fitting into their parents lives, its an interesting one. Our lives have definitely been changed, but we still do the stuff we enjoyed doing before DS just have to change the structure somewhat.

Travelling - well we still go away and stay in appartments or do house swaps rather than hotels, DS is well travelled. We like eating out so if we go with DS we go to large Brewers Fayre type place with play area, food is average beer according to DH is naff, but hey we get to sit down for half an hour so who is complaining. If we want a posh meal we either go out or buy Waitrose finest.

I suppose it depends what your life was like pre kids, if it involved snorting coke and clubbing all the time then clearly it has to change dramatically, but people don't intrinsically change when they have children.

Sorry a bit rambly and not altogether related to the OP ...

It's the planning that gets to me. Pre-children we'd do stuff at the drop of a hat -- I'd phone DH or he would phone me and say "Such-and-such is on at such-and-such a cinema tonight, shall we go?" or "that play that we were reading reviews of at the weekend has some tickets left for tonight" or "shall we see if we can get a late table somewhere?". Or even "we need a good putting-the-world-to-rights session, let's pop down to the pub". Now everything has to be planned, and sitters found (and paid for... ouch!).

Oh yes portandlemonaid, the lack of spontaneity, sigghh. Thought it was funny when OP said she was popping off to the shops, can't remember the last time I popped anywhere without packing 2 nappies, small bag wet wipes, bottle water, small snack and plastic bag to carry diry nappy if required ( and I know this is a good stage compared to babyhood and biger toddler hood)

Oh and I miss skiing.... sigh... no point going atm as DS too small and a) can't afford it and b) don't want a holiday where we don't see DS for most of it.

Oh and for babysitting form your own babysitting circle at www.mynightoff.com its fab.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/67/63145?pg=2

If you get a chance have a look at this. It was about a shock to the system having a one year old to stay when my DS was 4 months.

My DS did all the things and worse as he got older. I will never forget the beans being poured onto our cream carpet. I will never forget the teapot being pulled off the side with awful effect. I will never forget the xmas tree last year (when DS was two) I will never forget the tantrums (still having them!!!) and the general cheekiness and difficultness. But he is my DS and I love him to death.

FWIW, I never did have my friend to stay again, although another friend did who also has children and who found her every bit as terrible (if not worse) than I did.

And although I do so love my DS I do very much hope that the whole girls are less raucous than boys thing comes to fruition. If not I might spontaniously combust. Or else loose a stone...

I know it's a bit late for the OP... but why have children if you don't want them to change your life? I mean, what's the point, otherwise?

"I'm more than willing to accomodate my child - just a great believer that they fit into their parents lives - not the other way around"

This is a classic thing said by non-parents. There is a 99% probability that you will U-turn on this view. Write it down now so you can read it later and laugh

As consolation, it is much better having your own kids create havoc and take up all your attention in your house than having other people's kids do the same thing.

Kids are magic, you're in for the ride of your life.

Interestingly, I once heard the mother of a 10 year old say that was how she lived her life.

'My daughter fits in with my plans, like it or lump it'.

Mind you, said woman was a single mother (her hubby abandoned her when she was pregnant), so I think in her case I can see why she would have to.

I am newly pregnant (first timer) and have found this thread hugely instructive (and entertaining). I think I'm going to have to abandon my control freakish tendencies and go with the flow for once in my life. Eeek!

It's not really a 'decline in behaviour'. A two, three, four.....teenager are all more interesting than a newborn baby. The fact that they can run towards you and cuddle you back, watch movies with you, tell you they love you etc more than makes up for a few toys about the place. And they tend to sleep a bit more at night too (and if teenagers, during the day as well).

'all this lovely stuff will have to go' and I couldn't' help thinking 'but I don't want my house turned into toys r us!' I like my nice home and I don't want a child - my own or someone elses - to destroy it!

yep thats abotu it! yes there are some kids who are 'good' they sit quietly, they like to draw, they are neat, they like to read etc etc. Thats a personality type and it has its ups and its downs, (Monica from friends when they grow up?)

Then there's the type I've got - the lively, curiuos, always on the go, active, bouncy, mini bob the builder type.

Doesn't make much difference who you are or what your parenting style is, sure once they get past about 2yrs old your parenting style starts to make an impact but one thing that suprised me was just how fully formed their base personality type is from day one!

(mine came out the womb 4 weeks early kicking and yelling and looking around!)