The positive birth company don't believe that pregnancy and birth should be woman centered.

[JustcameoutGC]

Just thought you might like to know, in case you are deciding on where to go for education and support during your pregnancy

@glasspaw

This thread is immensely disappointing. Casual bigotry aside, I would really urge the majority of you do just do some research around the MANY examples of non-female identifying humans that have gone on to become pregnant and have children. Their stories are heartbreaking. I can’t even imagine the kind of discrimination that some of these individuals faced throughout their pregnancy.

The whataboutism around products and services aimed at men doesn’t prove the point you think it does, rather highlights that we still have a long way to go as a society to break down these often damaging gender norms. The point is that these products should also be taking steps towards being more inclusive.

I for one feel extremely happy as a pregnant human to see inclusivity from companies in this space for my fellow pregnant humans.

Why are you assuming the genders of the posters?

Out of interest.

Describing yourself as a pregnant human just makes you look extremely odd, glasspaw. Not progressive at all.

Ijustreallywantacat

Where is this using both terms?

'birth is not a woman-centred event''

They could have said

Birth is an event centred on the woman or birthing person

Woman and other birthing people must be at the centre

Etc etc

Why are some posters insisting that phrase is inclusive when in fact it states in plain language that it's not about women

They could even have said

Not just a woman centred event, anyone giving birth must be centred however they identify

Etc etc

'Oh shush! what’s it got to do you and why do you care what a total stranger, who you know nothing about, identifies as? It doesn’t take much effort just to respect other people.'

Newsflash, #nodebate isn't a thing anymore, women don't have to shut up and be kind. We are allowed to discuss sex and gender issues and how women are impacted by them.

Well that's me subscribing to a different hypnobirthing content producer. There's no way I want to support such a ridiculously anti-feminist company. Be inclusive by all means, but not at the expense of women.

@EarringsandLipstick

why do you care what a total stranger, who you know nothing about, identifies as?

The key is 'identifies as', not 'is'.

They can identify absolutely anyway they want.

If you get pregnant and give birth, you are a woman. It is the female biological characteristics that you were born with that enable you to do so.

If you 'identify' as a woman, but you are biologically male, you cannot, not ever, give birth. If you give birth, your identity as anything other than female, has nothing to do with you giving birth.

It is both linguistically & intellectually wrong; and as PPs have said, is diminishing of women & their experiences.

Exactly.

If you seen an NHS poster for pregnant women, you'll know if that applies to you or not.

What we don't need to do is start removing the word women, or adding on additional words every bloody time we use the word "woman"

I would just love to know where in my post I assumed anyone’s gender. Though I realise you’re being facetious.

@Scirocco

The first paragraph of my post was addressing why might a person identifying as other than female want to give birth.

So they know that they are female then, because only females can give birth. Anyway why would a trans man want to go through that most womanly of womanly processes, when no other man on the planet can give birth? Doesn’t show much commitment to the cause does it.

If I were them I would have said something like

Here at PBC we believe it's important to actively support the LGBTI+ community around childbirth.

We have helped X transgender clients to get the best birth experience possible. We understand the importance of respecting identity at all times and sensitivity in communicating information about the birth experience.

We have a dedicated section on our website with more info here.. Or you can contact us by phone or email to discuss the different ways we can support you.

No need to fuck off women by saying giving birth isn't about them full stop.

Great opportunity to get some more clients and get the word out.

Why are they not more interested in talking up their service? Why have they instead chosen this really rather aggressive and dismissive statement to their core client base?

I honestly don't get it.

@NiceGerbil your statement is perfect! It’s almost like to support trans people, companies and organisations feel they have to take this really aggressive approach to women, maybe to appease activists, as the debate is very (ironically) binary at the moment with no space for different views that don’t align exactly the the trans lobby narrative.

@glasspaw

I would just love to know where in my post I assumed anyone’s gender. Though I realise you’re being facetious.

'This thread is immensely disappointing. Casual bigotry aside, I would really urge the majority of you do just do some research around the MANY examples of non-female identifying humans that have gone on to become pregnant and have children. Their stories are heartbreaking. I can’t even imagine the kind of discrimination that some of these individuals faced throughout their pregnancy.'

By the majority I assume those who do not like what this company have said?

Why are you assuming research is needed? Your assumption is that no one who says it's a shit thing for them to say, come under the trans umbrella themselves and have had s baby.

Why do you say I'm being facetious?

I’m so sick of reading shit like this. I want to feel empowered as a woman who can give life and breastfeed. This takes it away from women IMO.

@glasspaw you say ‘non-female identifying humans’ so by your use here of the word humans instead of women, do you not believe in the biological sexes of female/male, or just that you don’t consider them important? Of course we are all human beings, but sometimes sex is an important distinction especially when it comes to pregnancy?

Oh shush! what’s it got to do you and why do you care what a total stranger, who you know nothing about, identifies as? It doesn’t take much effort just to respect other people.

You can’t tell women to ‘shush’ when discussing their rights and their experience. You just can’t. It’s steeped in misogyny - it’s up there with ‘calm down dear’.

@Wearywithteens

“Oh shush! what’s it got to do you and why do you care what a total stranger, who you know nothing about, identifies as? It doesn’t take much effort just to respect other people.”

This post just sums up this whole debate. Women just STFU. Make someone’s self appointed identity your God and bow down to it at all times. It doesn’t matter about your experience. It’s only someone who has an ‘identity’ that matters. Make sure you respect them - whoever they are - they could be the most hideous person but they are worth more than a woman because they have an ‘identity’ and are special. We must change all normal language, social interactions and diminish the dignity of biological women on the whim of people with an identity, lest they, as grown adults have a negative or sad feeling because their sad feelings count far more than anyone else’s. Just STFU women. Show respect. It doesn’t take much effort.

Well, I am a woman so 🤷‍♀️ I’m pointing out that my non binary friend deserves to be respected, just like anyone else. No one has said that they deserve more respect than women because they are non binary.

Or a company that trades in birth info and support telling women that they are not worth being 'centred' when having a baby...!

@MissChanandlerBong90

Oh shush! what’s it got to do you and why do you care what a total stranger, who you know nothing about, identifies as? It doesn’t take much effort just to respect other people.

You can’t tell women to ‘shush’ when discussing their rights and their experience. You just can’t. It’s steeped in misogyny - it’s up there with ‘calm down dear’.

The “oh shush” wasn’t in reply to someone discussing their rights. It was in response to comments a pp made about my friend.

'I’m pointing out that my non binary friend deserves to be respected, just like anyone else. No one has said that they deserve more respect than women because they are non binary.'

It's not respectful to women to state that childbirth is not a woman centred thing though surely?

That's not 'additive' language is it.

Facts are not disrespectful.

Mousetown

You feel strongly about this so I wonder if you have any thoughts as to why the company said that childbirth is not a woman centred thing

Rather than something like

'Here at PBC we believe it's important to actively support the LGBTI+ community around childbirth.

We have helped X transgender clients to get the best birth experience possible. We understand the importance of respecting identity at all times and sensitivity in communicating information about the birth experience.

We have a dedicated section on our website with more info here.. Or you can contact us by phone or email to discuss the different ways we can support you.'

Is this approach ok from your pov?

I can't understand why they took the route that did rather than something that highlighted their service and wouldn't get women's backs up.

Do you have any thoughts on that?

'I’m pointing out that my non binary friend deserves to be respected, just like anyone else. No one has said that they deserve more respect than women because they are non binary.'

I agree they should be respected, but why does women saying they don’t want the word woman erased and disagreeing with the statement ‘birth is not a woman centred event’ disrespectful? Can you not see any harm in this approach? Previous posters have given some great examples and points?

The fact that the phrase woman centred birth has been used for a very long time by activists who worked to get women's voices heard- to have their consent requested etc.

Is a real kick in the teeth really to all the women through the years who have worked so hard to improve things.

Just disrespectful.

Only women can birth children. The end.