Gender discrimination

[Tblock]

I know the title sounds very forward, but it can only be described as this, but why do a lot of women feel disappointed if they are having a boy? Don’t get me wrong, once you have you’re baby, I’m sure you will show them the love and affection regardless of gender, but I find a lot of women almost discriminate against having a boy and feel a sense of disappointment when they realise they are not having a girl. I could be wrong, but I don’t think I have ever seen an article on here where someone is hoping they have a boy, it’s always a girl. Whilst I understand the concept of it, in the sense of wanting that mummy/daughter relationship, but I also find it a little unfair on boys who get quite a hard time when it comes to pregnancy. Just my thoughts.

[quote pluckywormfish]**@Turtleturtle81* @justanotherneighinparadise* @nildesparandum

Im quite surprised the level of bashing I have received for wanting a daughter. I don't believe there is anything wrong with that. Can you explain to my why you picked on me and not @Namechange8471 @Changeofseason for wanting a son?

It is allowed to want a son but not want a daughter?

There is nothing wrong with having a preference and there are many reasons for it. I don't think mothers should be shamed for their feelings.

I would be delighted for a healthy baby as the most important things. But I think if I didn't have a daughter I would wonder.[/quote]
All the reasons you give for wanted a girl are entirely about satisfying your wants, and nothing to do with the child’s needs.
You want to go clothes shopping for nice dresses.
You want to go on mother-daughter days.
You want to force the type of relationship you have with your mother on your child.
You want her to think of you as her best friend.

This is all about you. Your daughter might not want these things. You have centred yourself. A daughter is not an extension of you - she is her own unique person. You only need to take a look at the Stately Homes threads on here to see the sort of damage this can cause.

I think you hear people focussing on dresses etc because it's the only real difference isn't it? I have 2 boys and they're basically the same as their girl cousins except the don't wear girls clothes. I'd love a little girl but wouldn't be disappointed if I got a boy. I might be a little sad that the little girl I'd imagined never arrived but I'd never be disappointed about my boys. I think sometimes people think someone posting on an online forum crying they didn't get a girl means they're crying they got a boy - to my mind it's not the same thing at all and everyone is entitled to cry for whatever reason they want.

I never understood women who say they don’t know how to play with a boy, hence they want girls. How do you play differently, FGS? And if you’re going to be all toy tools, diggers and trainsets with a boy, and My First Tea Party and Domestic Servitude with a girl, then give yourselves a shake. That’s why you won’t have a strong relationship with an adult son.

Because @pluckywormfish it doesn’t seem to have occurred to you that your daughter may not want to do any of the things you’ve suggested.

As @Turtleturtle81 said, this is all about your needs. As a child I refused fo wear dresses, my DM had to cut bows off my clothes, I refused to wear anything with frills. I have never worn anything with a bow in my entire life. I have two friends who each have girls, they play football (on a team, they’re really good), they climb trees, they get invited to the boys birthday parties. Do you not realise that your daughter may not fix the box you want to put her in.

And yes I have a good relationship with my mum, so does my brother, so does my DH with his.

I’m currently 11 weeks and hoping so so so much I’m having a boy. I won’t necessarily be disappointed with a girl, so long as they are healthy and happy.

But I’ve always connected better with boys. All of my cats are boys and I can just see myself having a son.

Guess we’ll find out soon 😂

It seems to be a U.K. thing. In many other cultures, boys are prized far more highly over girls (especially for a first child).

I’m not sure whether it’s just because women find it easier to imagine parenting a girl, or because in the U.K. the ‘mother daughter’ relationship is given so much time and attention in the media. I think it’s also a reflection of gendered stereotypes - that boys are energetic, messy, naughty, vulgar etc whereas girls are sweet, compliant, loving, nurturing. Of course that’s bollocks, but the effect of those stereotypes can be very persuasive.

I find threads about gender disappointment so frustrating. When DS2 was five days old, a neighbour who was cooing over him asked if he was a girl and when I said he was a boy she replied "never mind". So many people seem to feel I'm not complete as a mother without having a daughter.

What angers me about it is that so many of the stereotypes that lead to people wanting a daughter e.g being closer to maternal grandparents, supporting them through puberty etc are things that ultimately can be influenced by your parenting.
I'm equally as close to my parental grandparents because my grandmother raised a great son who has never expected my mum to be the primary carer. Ditto my husband - I married someone who is close to his parents and ensures our children have a close and loving relationship with them (incidentally I often FaceTime his parents so they can see the kids, and he took our son to visit my grandmother in her garden just last week - so it goes both ways).
When my period started it was my dad who nipped out to get me sanitary towels because I was raised to be able to talk to him about stuff like that.

I guess what I'm saying is that if your sons grow up to not be close to you (or to be weirdly close to you), or to allow your relationship with grandkids to be "second tier" we have to partly look at ourselves and question how we raised them.

Boys clothes are crap. The colours are awful. The boys clothes section is half the size of the girls. Boys just aren’t fun to dress up because high street boy’s clothes suck.

I actually totally disagree with this. I don’t know what I’m having, so have bought clothes that would do for either. I generally loathe the baby clothes in the girls’ section. Why does 50% of it have a peplum? Why would a baby want a fussy peplum?! Why are there so many fiddly frills and bows which will just get in the way of movement and be awkward when dressing? Why is so, so much of it pink?

By contrast, I’ve got loads of lovely things which I consider totally gender neutral from the boys section - green jersey dungarees with a highland cow on the front, a romper covered in different kinds of whales, a blue cardigan in the softest navy wool with a Peter Pan collar, a very hungry caterpillar onesie in the brightest colours. There’s so much more variety and creativity, whereas it seems to be assumed that everyone wants to dress their girls in pastel coloured frills.

Prime example of why I feel this is worth debating, is lady on one of the nub theory forums I am on has 6 kids (Boys) and recently had her 7th which finally was a girl. She’s openly admitted she’s been trying desperately until she gets the girl she’s dreamed of. I mean how fucked up is that ? Churning out babies like they are objects, until she gets the girl she desires. What if she had 10 boys in a row? She would end up with a football team full of children, just so she can get the girl she wants. I just find it astonishing someone can behave like this and there are a lot of women like it. Take a minute and think of the thousands of women that can’t conceive, then just maybe you might not be so self centred in this weird notion that you must have a girl and are disappointed in a boy, it’s ridiculous.

[quote pluckywormfish]**@Turtleturtle81* @justanotherneighinparadise* @nildesparandum

Im quite surprised the level of bashing I have received for wanting a daughter. I don't believe there is anything wrong with that. Can you explain to my why you picked on me and not @Namechange8471 @Changeofseason for wanting a son?

It is allowed to want a son but not want a daughter?

There is nothing wrong with having a preference and there are many reasons for it. I don't think mothers should be shamed for their feelings.

I would be delighted for a healthy baby as the most important things. But I think if I didn't have a daughter I would wonder.[/quote]
I picked on you because your comment made you sound very hard of thinking which is just the attribute I assign to many of the women who post gender disappointment threads and start talking about clothes 🙄

All the reasons you give for wanted a girl are entirely about satisfying your wants, and nothing to do with the child’s needs.
You want to go clothes shopping for nice dresses.
You want to go on mother-daughter days.
You want to force the type of relationship you have with your mother on your child.
You want her to think of you as her best friend.

This is all about you. Your daughter might not want these things. You have centred yourself. A daughter is not an extension of you - she is her own unique person. You only need to take a look at the Stately Homes threads on here to see the sort of damage this can cause.

Absolutely. This reads completely as ME ME ME ME ME.

@BluSpider lol to this. I assume you are being sarcastic?
Boys clothes are great!

I have recently had my 3rd boy. Didn't find out sex with any.
I am so proud of my boys, I am proud I made 3 gorgeous little men.
it must radiate off me when we all go out for a walk together. I am so smug that I will have 3 men that'll always love me.
I don't grieve for not having a daughter. I just wanted healthy babies.

OP is right though when I was pregnant with all 3 actually people commented on how lovely it would be to have a girl.... would it??? Lol

@Tblock

Prime example of why I feel this is worth debating, is lady on one of the nub theory forums I am on has 6 kids (Boys) and recently had her 7th which finally was a girl. She’s openly admitted she’s been trying desperately until she gets the girl she’s dreamed of. I mean how fucked up is that ? Churning out babies like they are objects, until she gets the girl she desires. What if she had 10 boys in a row? She would end up with a football team full of children, just so she can get the girl she wants. I just find it astonishing someone can behave like this and there are a lot of women like it. Take a minute and think of the thousands of women that can’t conceive, then just maybe you might not be so self centred in this weird notion that you must have a girl and are disappointed in a boy, it’s ridiculous.

I do know of someone who ho is one of 13 brothers!!!! The mother did indeed keep having children and never had a girl.

I disagree strongly with some of the comments on here, especially the OP labelling it as gender discrimination. It runs a lot deeper for many of us than just wanting to wear matching dresses and go on bloody spa days. I’m pregnant with my second son and whilst I am so happy to have another healthy baby and a beautiful brother for our son, I felt sad when we found out. A relationship between a mother and her son IS different compared to one between a mother and her daughter. I don’t love my children any less because of it, I don’t pine for a daughter day in day out. But the reality of it is that many of us would love one of each.

My neighbours, after having their 4th DS, came to our door and asked if I wouldn't mind stopping hanging out my DD's clothes on the washing line as it was so upsetting for his wife.
The wife then went on to suffer from PND which, according to her husband, was due to the fact they didn't have a DD so I do feel that gender disappointment is a real thing that can have some huge repercussions.
I have a ds and dd and must say I was surprised after DD was born with the amount of cards we received implying how clever we were to have managed to have one of each, I did feel like saying all we did was have sex, nothing much clever about that.
This wasn't recently tho so hopefully things have moved on

@abitfunny

I disagree strongly with some of the comments on here, especially the OP labelling it as gender discrimination. It runs a lot deeper for many of us than just wanting to wear matching dresses and go on bloody spa days. I’m pregnant with my second son and whilst I am so happy to have another healthy baby and a beautiful brother for our son, I felt sad when we found out. A relationship between a mother and her son IS different compared to one between a mother and her daughter. I don’t love my children any less because of it, I don’t pine for a daughter day in day out. But the reality of it is that many of us would love one of each.

How is the relationship different? I’m intrigued. Is it a period thing again 🤔

Some people would do anything to have any baby.
What a self indulged society we live in to be able to have preferences or disappointments for a particular sex.

BluSpider lol to this. I assume you are being sarcastic? Boys clothes are great!
Boys clothes (too dull or too bright, transport and dinosaurs) vs girls clothes (pretty soft colours, flowers and stars).

Girls clothes are the colours that are currently trendy in both fashion and interiors. Soft neutrals are what most women would choose to buy for themselves. They want to go shopping and choose baby clothes they like and think are beautiful and cute. Most women wouldn’t choose to wear the colours and patterns available in high street boys clothes.

Then compare this with the boys clothes photographed by influencers, which are typically from small brands not available on the high street. Soft neutral colours, androgynous, in many cases the boys have longer hair. The high street hasn’t caught up with this trend and still mostly offers boys clothes in old fashioned colours and patterns instead of the new trendy soft colours.

There’s a lot of judgement on this thread.

So I’m going to come out and admit that before I had my first baby I wanted a girl. I don’t really know why. Certainly nothing to do with dresses and bows (my 10 yr old often tells me off for dressing the toddler like a boy). I love unisex colourful clothing and dresses are a faff. It was just a vague feeling. My sister had a very difficult relationship with our dad which She’s only just beginning to unpick in therapy - perhaps I was affected by that and felt safer investing emotionally in a female. I don’t know. It’s not something I’ve ever been able to control.

I’ve never found out the sex prior to giving birth as I know I will love the baby as soon as it’s in my arms.

I have 3 girls and with each one I’ve had a slight preference for another girl. Probably because I have loved the preceding child so hard that I just want to do it all again the same as before. I’ve been through my share of hardship - it’s taken 7 miscarriages to get my family.

I’m pregnant again and I don’t even dare think about the sex. I’m too busy checking the toilet paper and wondering if I’ll find blood. But if you asked me to pick girl or boy.... I’d pick girl.

I had a Chinese colleague who was devastated when she found out she was having a 2nd girl - she had multiple scans in case they were wrong. Terrible things happen to female children in other cultures so I really don’t think my slight preference for a girl which I’m sure would disappear as soon as I had a baby boy in my arms is going to affect any child detrimentally.

The question started out innocently enough but now it seems like this thread has become a free for all to attack woman like me for our preferences. Clearly ‘Be Kind’ didn’t make it to this corner of Mumsnet.

@Tblock @justanotherneighinparadise I always think about those poor boys in these sorts of families that know that they weren't wanted, they only existed as a by product to their sister existing, and the first thing they ever did on this earth was disappoint their parents 😔

@abitfunny personally I don't think there's anything wrong with having a slight preference either way, but to actually be disappointed for more than a second after finding out... that's not on. You shouldn't be crying after a scan where you find out you have a healthy baby, it really is ridiculous.

I really didn’t care what I had and never found out. I have two beautiful boys and they are really close to each other.
My only disappointment is how other people have acted towards me - making suggestions that I must be disappointed to not have a daughter.
We were never in a position to have had a third child, and I also feel that ship has sailed, however I always wondered what whether I’d have comments made about just trying for a girl. It is a shame...

@Moo678

There’s a lot of judgement on this thread.

So I’m going to come out and admit that before I had my first baby I wanted a girl. I don’t really know why. Certainly nothing to do with dresses and bows (my 10 yr old often tells me off for dressing the toddler like a boy). I love unisex colourful clothing and dresses are a faff. It was just a vague feeling. My sister had a very difficult relationship with our dad which She’s only just beginning to unpick in therapy - perhaps I was affected by that and felt safer investing emotionally in a female. I don’t know. It’s not something I’ve ever been able to control.

I’ve never found out the sex prior to giving birth as I know I will love the baby as soon as it’s in my arms.

I have 3 girls and with each one I’ve had a slight preference for another girl. Probably because I have loved the preceding child so hard that I just want to do it all again the same as before. I’ve been through my share of hardship - it’s taken 7 miscarriages to get my family.

I’m pregnant again and I don’t even dare think about the sex. I’m too busy checking the toilet paper and wondering if I’ll find blood. But if you asked me to pick girl or boy.... I’d pick girl.

I had a Chinese colleague who was devastated when she found out she was having a 2nd girl - she had multiple scans in case they were wrong. Terrible things happen to female children in other cultures so I really don’t think my slight preference for a girl which I’m sure would disappear as soon as I had a baby boy in my arms is going to affect any child detrimentally.

The question started out innocently enough but now it seems like this thread has become a free for all to attack woman like me for our preferences. Clearly ‘Be Kind’ didn’t make it to this corner of Mumsnet.

Your post seemed pretty reasonable actually. With every girl you had your preference for another girl grew. Seems reasonable and practical. I think having two or more of the same sex is fabulous for the child (what child doesn’t want a sibling with the likelihood for similar preferences for toys and games) and it brilliant for easy hand me downs.

I just find the posters on here banging on about clothes and shared menstruation very odd.

@LincolnshireYellowBelly

I really didn’t care what I had and never found out. I have two beautiful boys and they are really close to each other. My only disappointment is how other people have acted towards me - making suggestions that I must be disappointed to not have a daughter. We were never in a position to have had a third child, and I also feel that ship has sailed, however I always wondered what whether I’d have comments made about just trying for a girl. It is a shame...

Honestly those comments only reflect poorly on the person that says them. Children are a gift and should always be cherished as such.

@abitfunny

I disagree strongly with some of the comments on here, especially the OP labelling it as gender discrimination. It runs a lot deeper for many of us than just wanting to wear matching dresses and go on bloody spa days. I’m pregnant with my second son and whilst I am so happy to have another healthy baby and a beautiful brother for our son, I felt sad when we found out. A relationship between a mother and her son IS different compared to one between a mother and her daughter. I don’t love my children any less because of it, I don’t pine for a daughter day in day out. But the reality of it is that many of us would love one of each.

Nobody is saying you can’t want one of each, but it’s absolutely pathetic when you have mother’s crying in the baby girl section of a shop because they are have a baby boy. I have seen a few threads on here say this exact thing. You might think that’s normal, but reality is that’s messed up and very self centred. Oh poor me, I’m not having the I crave. How about you cherish and be grateful you can have children? Think of how fantastic it will be to have any sort of child regardless of gender because there are millions of mums that can’t have any and would die to be in you’re place. Due date for us is April 30th, and either way we will be ecstatic regardless of gender.

It's really interesting hearing the difference reasons people had for having a preference!
I want one of each tbh, so with this (first) pregnancy, I wasn't too fussed either way. I had a slight preference for a girl, because I think men who have older sisters tend to be more respectful of women. Although I work in a very male-dominated field so feel like I can relate to boys better. DH wanted a girl because "teenage boys are too much trouble" (think he was trouble!).
This one is a girl, and I'd be a tiny bit disappointed if the next one (God willing) is too - just because we wouldn't have both then.