Gender confusion? Pics included.

[essexanon]

Hey all.

So yesterday I had a private gender scan (16+5) and they said Boy.
But both nub experts and nub techs said girl.
We have had our heart set on a girl and to be honest, I left the scan a little disappointed (please don’t judge)

But I’ve read girls parts can be swollen?
Has anyone been told ‘boy’ and it’s really a ‘girl’?
Maybe I’m just looking for hope that at my 20wk NHS scan, they are going to tell me girl. I know it sounds silly.

Xx

We've also both got access to the same internet so the information is there for both to see if you care to look for it.

But you’ve already found the links and are quoting them to support your views, so why wouldn’t you post the links you’ve already read and are quoting, in order that other people can read them? Unless they don’t exist, of course ...

Quoting them to support your views, so why wouldn’t you post the links you’ve already read and are quoting, in order that other people can read them? Unless they don’t exist, of course...

Research about the difference between males and females doesn't exist? Are you serious?
FYI, I haven't quoted anything, I said there has been research into it, which there has.
Just type it into a Google search if you're genuinely interested in a different viewpoint to your own. I'm not writing a thesis here lol.

I see you haven't responded in any way at all to the countless examples I have given in previous posts?

Interesting also that I have just been to watch my niece in a swimming competition and boys and girls were competing separately, not against each other. I wonder why they have male and female sports teams and different events at the Olympics etc if there are no differences whatsoever between the sexes?

My opinion (which I'm entitled to by the way, even if it differs from yours) is also backed up by personal experience, both privately and professionally as well as some really interesting discussions with child psychiatrists and psychologists in the course of my work. We're causing a lot of damage to kids and society in general with this obsessive quest to make both sexes the same.

What a funny turn the thread took.

Of course there are differences in the average boy and girl. Doesn’t mean every fufills his stereotype or every girl either. But ask any teacher and they will tell you there are generalised differences across most groups of boys vs girls. Some of these may be down to biology, some reinforced by society, but either way they can’t be dismissed as existing.

@Moctodtensmum we've definitely gone off on a bit of a tangent (I find a lot of threads on MN mentioning gender tend to go a similar way lol)

Outdated stereotypes of boys and girls annoy me. Yes, i think there are inherent differences between boys and girls but I'm a massive believer in letting kids be who they want to be and encouraging their individual strengths and interests. Gender should never hold anyone back. I certainly have never been a stereotypical girl and can't imagine buying everything pink or blue for my child based on their sex (although I think it's each to their own and have no issue with anyone who chooses to do that for their own child).

@MyNameIsGone interesting. Every teacher I've met says different.

I've worked in a primary school and can honestly say I didn't notice any real difference between boys and girls - the way they played, the way they behaved etc. It was pretty similar. Now I am not arguing that there are no differences (especially once the hormones kick in during puberty) but I really believe the differences are exaggerated in people's minds. If someone sees a boy behaving a certain way it will reinforce their ideas about how boys are - yet when I was at the school girls displayed exactly the same behaviour. I really believe personality plays a much greater part in how a child will be than their biological sex. That's why I pointed out my DS is much more like me and my DD is much more like her dad. Their sex is irrelevant to me. I was brought up in a family where my parents didn't seem to notice what gender their children were. I can't think if a single time when I was treated differently to my brothers (that includes going out late at night as a teenager/having boyfriends and girlfriends etc). In contrast I had friends whose parents treated their sons and daughters COMPLETELY differently. There was a huge male/female divide in these households. I wonder if people who had these type of upbringings have a stronger belief in the differences between boys and girls? Because I can see no fundamental difference between me and brothers, my son and my daughter. I see no difference in the relationship I have with my parents and the relationship my brothers have with my parents. I'm no closer to my mum than my brothers are. However, I can imagine if you were brought up in a house where boys were boys and girls were girls you would notice differences.

@SallyWD what's your theory on why boys and girls generally hit their early milestones at a different rate? Or why girls generally out perform boys in academic tests at all ages? Or why boys and girls don't compete against each other in competitive sports?

You can't tell me that's all just down to parenting attitudes?

Gender wasn't an issue in my household growing up either, there were 4 of us siblings and none of us were 'girly girls' or 'boyish boys' and we certainly weren't treated any differently. We're all equally close to our parents but the mother/son or mother/daughter relationship is definitely different (as is the father/son, father/daughter one). As I've said before, I don't think one is stronger or better than the other, I just think there are differences.

Research about the difference between males and females doesn't exist? Are you serious? FYI, I haven't quoted anything,

I didn’t say “research between the difference between males and females”. I referred to your post where you asserted this:

It's scientific fact that male and female brains are different.

Scientific facts are supported by evidence, none of which you have provided, despite apparently having read this evidence yourself somewhere. Without evidence, your “scientific facts” are meaningless.

Oups. I saw a willy...
Go for some shopping and start visualising the most handsome youngster you know, because he's your son... You'll have to try again for the locks and everything pink I'm afraid. You've got a few months to prepare yourself to meet your child, let go of your expectations. Yours was about gender and you know what it's fine : some cannot let go 50 years later that they did not give birth to (fill in the gap). One of my friend wore exclusively pink garments as a baby because his mum was told he was supposedly a girl. Brilliant urologist now. I wonder why...

@FamilyOfAliens Seriously, it's right there on the internet for you to look at if you're genuinely interested. Here's a 2 second Google results screenshot just to start you off 😊 imagine what you could find if you had a more comprehensive look....

Still avoiding responding to every other part of my posts I see? 😂

@essexanon - my nub showed girl..my genetic NIPT showed a boy!

Nub is totally unreliable.

Here's an ever-so-difficult-to-find Wikipedia link for you to peruse over a cuppa too:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences

I know it's not trendy and it goes against the current gender neutral obsession but it is actually 'scientific fact' that there are genetic differences between a male and female brain.

My DS’s are a lot more gentle and calm than my DD’s. Today I took my youngest DS to softplay and a woman tried to claim her Grandson was only misbehaving because he was a boy, she thought my DS who was behaving perfectly well was a girl for some reason because of course only boys misbehave . Outdated stereotypes need to go, boys are lovely, it’s all to do with how they’re raised.

That aside, I was told by a sonographer that it’s very easy to mistake a boy for a girl but rare for it to happen the other way around. That potty shot is definitely a boy, the nub theory is just guesswork. Just be thankful you have a healthy baby.

Outdated stereotypes need to go

I totally agree

@sel2223 I'm not denying there are differences. I studied child development at university and remember learning some of these differences. My own experiences (my family, my children, other children I've known, children in the school I worked at) is that boys and girls are pretty similar. The only differences I see in my kids and in my relationships with them are based on their personalities. I genuinely don't see any differences in my relationship with my mum and my brothers' relationship with her (same goes for our relationships with my dad). However this is just my family. You say there are differences in your family relationships. Just goes to show the differences that exist - it isn't always one way or the other.

Thanks for the screenshot.

So adult brains, which have been exposed to gender socialisation, show some differences. Be interesting to know if this applies to children’s brains. And I still wonder why you would have a different relationship with your male child to your female child because their brains will show some differences when they are adults.

You're very welcome @FamilyOfAliens take a look at the link I posted too if you like....scroll down to the bit about cognitive tasks and there's a section about research with three and four year olds.

In my opinion, the relationship between parents and their sons and daughters is different. I explained this several replies ago by pointing out that I believed it stemmed from the fundamental differences between the sexes....differences in the way they think, the way they react, their emotions etc.....genetic differences....something you don't agree with.

It is clear to me that you have a very closed minded view on this subject and have no desire to learn more about it or hear a viewpoint that differs to your own. You asked for a link regarding scientific research which I've posted, I've asked for your response to all the examples I've given about the differences between the sexes and you've just completely ignored it all.

I explained this several replies ago by pointing out that I believed it stemmed from the fundamental differences between the sexes....differences in the way they think, the way they react, their emotions etc.....genetic differences....something you don't agree with.

It is clear to me that you have a very closed minded view on this subject

So if I don’t agree with your beliefs, I have a closed mind on the subject? That’s an interesting interpretation.

So if I don’t agree with your beliefs, I have a closed mind on the subject? That’s an interesting interpretation

So have an actual discussion then. Tell me your thoughts on the examples I gave you. I am genuinely interested.

All you have done is fixated on scientific research and suggested I was making it up, then when I've posted the link you pestered me for, you've said it's just adult brains exposed to gender socialization.

Then when I've mentioned a section for you to read about research into children, you've ignored it completely.

You have a closed mind, not because your opinion differs from mine, but because you are unwilling to engage in any discussion that goes against your own beliefs. Every reply has been antagonistic....why?

Another teacher here. Nope. In fact the more years I've been teaching the more I've steadily dropped more and more of my previous gendered stereotypes. The variation within each gender is much much bigger than any marginal difference between their two midpoints. In terms of personality, learning styles etc etc. And to those pp who say we are doing "damage" by treating sexes the same - actually, we are working to reduce the high young man suicide rate, close the gender pay gap... need I go on?

@Umberta Nope what? As a teacher you have surely noticed a difference in learning styles and speeds? A difference in exam results between the sexes? A difference in sport? I know my sister and best friend (also teachers) both have and it's very well documented.

it's such an interesting subject and one we can only base on our own personal experiences. For example, I've worked with troubled teens and young adults and had some fab discussions with child psychologists and other mental health professionals and a recurring theme seems to be this lack of identity these days. Boys in particular are being taught to almost be ashamed of being boys and all kids are getting lumped together into one big gender neutral pot......no boys or girls, no winners or losers, no life skills! In my opinion, based on what I have seen with my own eyes, we (as a society - not pointing fingers here) are causing damage.

Closing the gender pay gap and expecting equality is totally different to saying males and females are the same. They're not. Both sexes are wonderful and should be encouraged to be the best people they can be, following whatever interests they enjoy, regardless of gender.

I've also met a number of gender neutral, gender fluid or non binary youngsters in the course of my work and every single one of them has also had mental health issues. Read into that what you will.

Anyway, this thread has gone way off course here!

Believe it or not, this all started as a simple discussion on a parents relationship with a son or a daughter and whether there was any difference 😂

I've also met a number of gender neutral, gender fluid or non binary youngsters in the course of my work and every single one of them has also had mental health issues. Read into that what you will

My read on it is we are forcing stereotypes on young people with all the pink brain/blue brain crap.

Which leads to confused kids thinking they are girls because they like dolls and dancing, or boys because they like football and not make up.

The “gender neutral” trend is a result of stereotyping.

Males and females are different because of how society treats them- outside of physical differences. Being told you like x or must behave in y manner means those who don’t fit start thinking they must be a or b.

Treat kids like people, not as homogenous sexes who all have the same likes and same traits.

Treat kids like people, not as homogenous sexes who all have the same likes and same traits

Well said, I couldn't agree more! If you read my previous posts you'll see I am dead against old fashioned stereotypes and can't personally stand the whole pink and blue thing. I was a total tomboy who hated pink and played football and was never held back because of my gender.....in fact, all the kids I know now are encouraged to do whatever activities they enjoy, wear what they are comfortable in and play with whatever toys they choose. Aside from adults insisting it exists, I haven't actually seen any forced stereotyping for a very long time.

The differences I talk about between the sexes are not to do with stereotyping, they are physical differences, differences in their genetic make up, their brains....biology. My point was that these fundamental differences make a parent child relationship different..... mothers and sons vs mothers and daughters for example.

It's important to embrace their genetic differences and help them understand it whilst also nurturing each individual child's own personality.