Feeling extra guilty about vaccines and embarrassed.

[SexlessBoulderBelly]

I’m having a c section on Tuesday, I’ll be 37+4, baby is coming early due to issues with my placenta and growth restrictions.

Up until I was about 30 weeks and started attending the hospital every week, at my usual midwife appointment she reminded me to book my flu and whooping cough vaccine.

I’ve got to be completely honest, I totally put them off as I suffer terrible anxiety and was frightened did have a reaction to them. I never voiced that to the midwife and just kept saying I would book it in. I had every intention to do it as I absolutely want what’s best for DD but I just thought to myself every time I thought about it “I’ll ring tomorrow“

Even now I just think it’s pointless even if I could get a appointment. I know that logically it’s not pointless but the anxiety in me is brushing it off and I’m overcome with guilt.

I’m so pro vaccine for babies too. It’s just me having the vaccine that I can’t bring myself to do

I’m entitled to the flu vaccine for my job anyway and I’ve never had the jab done.

Am I absolutely terrible? Did anyone else not have them? Obviously not having the whooping cough vaccine I’m going to be recovering from the c section for a few weeks and will try to really limit visitors until baby has her first vaccines. Will keep hand sanitizer on the side table and make sure veryone wishes theirs hands before holding her and absolutely no kissing.. which would have been a request anyway. Something about kissing newborns on the face when they don’t belong to you makes me a bit irritated. Common sense (which I’m obviously lacking by jeopardising her health selfishly!)

I don’t really know what my question is, no one can tell me if she will catch whooping cough or flu, and people with hve different opinions on me being an idiot but I suppose I just needed to offload!

Every time a decision rejecting a vaccine is made it is never made for just one individual. It is a public health matter. I will never ever stop pointing out the ludicrousness of these feels based “research”. A lay person has not done any legit research because they cannot cite it. Because it does not exist.

But what was her 'research?' Can she share the actual research base that she used with the rest of us so we too can be enlightened?

@KayAR

I'm hardly 'stupid' for trying to do what I think is best for my baby !

and later

But I can't apologise for having my own opinion which I have thought about for a very very long time and it's not just a decision I woke up one day and decided.

It's not that you're stupid, but that how you've tried to 'do best' for your baby is. If you're not qualified to assess the evidence, as in you understand the limitations and strengths of ALL the relevant studies and what the evidence base is on this issue, then you should absolutely leave it up to the experts and follow the official guidelines. Not doing so is certainly stupid, as well as potentially dangerous to both your own children and other children.

Thinking about something for a long time does not make anyone into an expert. That's not how it works. Obviously.

@OstrichRunning but no one on this post is a medical professional so how can they try and give me any sort of medical advise about what is right for my baby ? My decision has come from speaking to my own medical consultants about the pros and cons and what is necessary and what isn't, I have done enough research to have made my mind up and it was not made lightly, it really is funny all of these people preaching what I should do with my child have only got there information for one person or place, I have looked at many different things and my outcome is that I am not getting the flu vaccine while pregnant. End of

I didn't have any vaccines during pregnancy following an instruction from the immunologist. However, my situation is specific. I've had all my vaccines and my baby will have them too but my father, my sister and I had exceptionally strong responses to vaccines ending up in hospital after each (And our reactions were strong to both 'live' and other vaccines). Therefore, we all have to receive them in fractions (sometimes as small as 0.1) under supervision of an immunologist. That is why our specialist advised not to receive any during pregnancy as the risk, in his opinion, was not worth it. Baby is already scheduled for immunization so she'll be covered, but as said - under the strict supervision and in fractions.

but no one on this post is a medical professional so how can they try and give me any sort of medical advise about what is right for my baby ?
Virologist/immunologist here. Well qualified to advise you.

@Mustbetimeforachange well done, it still has not changed my opinion I am sorry. I have made my own decision and am sticking with it.

Hi.

Just to share my experience while it's still hot.

I'm not anti vax no pro in pregnancy. Neutral.

I gave all my children all immunisation at the due time.

In pregnancy I was a bit weary as don't want stuff inside me while baby is in.

I was diagnosed with the flu a week ago at the hospital. Since then my husband and children got it. Sunday I started antibiotics together with my husband, chest infection. Yesterday my DD started antibiotics. My DS still has spiking temperature. Plan to go again tomorrow to A&E if symptoms don't improve. We're still so bad after more than 48 hrs of antibiotics. Kids are bad too.

THE FLU IS BAD, really bad. You don't know unless you had it. I am. And I'm 23 weeks pregnant.

I didn't get the flu vaccine. Was thinking about having it but was still not sure and also got busy with life and work.

After I recover I will have the jab. From next year we all will gonna have the flu jab.

My point of the story is, do it because you don't know how bad it is the flu. It's not a simple cold, not even a bad cold. It is really bad. Can't do anything, everything hurts, so far we got a bad chest infection due to the flu. I worry each day if I feel baby move as flu could have consequences for baby.

Please pp stop arguing and do it for you and your family. Times are changed, the viruses get so much worse each year.

If I could go back in time I would do it as soon as I could.

“ Do your own research and then decide as it will put you at ease”

Well, if you start now, you could be a qualified immunologist in about 9 years. Less if you have A levels already...

Do what you like but don't kid yourself you're doing the best for your baby.

@R2D2abc Really hope you're all feeling better soon, sounds awful

@Dipsydoodle I am thank you x

KayAR You say you have done a lot of your own research instead of listening to others. What sort of research have you done? Can you send links to the research that says flu and whooping cough vaccinations are dangerous when you are pregnant?

Of course the flu vaccine can't protrct against all strains of Flu, that's common knowledge but research is carried out into what are the most likely forms of flu to be around in that year. (this is not a stab in the drak it is scientifically done and based on evidence) so the flu vaccine which is different every year protects against the types of flu you are most likely to get. I still think that is a very useful protection and I paid to have one this year, I think it's one of the best £12 I've spent

*“ Do your own research and then decide as it will put you at ease”

Well, if you start now, you could be a qualified immunologist in about 9 years. Less if you have A levels already...*

This. Exactly this.

Care givers aren't out to get us. Bearing in mind the collective cost of medical negligence cases, they test and test and test again. They won't say anything is 100% safe.

Unfortunately, catching the flu while you're pregnant carries a very high risk of miscarriage. If you're ever unfortunate enough to go through that yourself, you'll do whatever you can to minimise the risk of it happening again; and you'll try to help others to too.

The benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks, or we wouldn't be offered them. It's as simple as that.

There are two things that fuel this sort of a mindset and both are pretty central to our broader political atmosphere around the world currently -

1. First, reject expertise. All manner of expertise - legal, medical, sociological, scientific - is to be rejected and replaced with anecdotes, hyperbole and “common sense”.

1. Erect an us and them boundary between expertise and the “will of the common man”. Experts in this case either do not know enough or are hiding facts and are out to get “we the people”. But we the people know best and we shall use common sense to say no thank you to expertise.

This demolishing of expertise was absolutely central to two major legal-medical cases in the recent past involving the ethics of end of life care for terminally ill children - both cases made the news. Both cases involved a massive social media movement rejecting expertise, denying evidence, and establishing the will of the lay person as superior and invoked the “mother knows best” and “mothers instinct” trope. Both movements shared innumerable parallels and indeed actual membership with the anti vaccine group and both thrived on decrying medical and legal expertise - in those cases the NHS and British judiciary - as “out to get us”. In my own professional capacity I studied those cases and the parallels to the discussions here are substantial.

For anyone reading this thread in posterity though, or for anyone lurking - I hope you notice and make good note of the fact that not one person against vaccination has cited expertise and evidence based research clearly and has instead relied on the tropes of (1) personal opinions (2) anecdotes from friends and family (3) vague references to having done their own “research” (4) emotional flouncing off and (5) “mothers know best”. If you’re undecided and lurking here, or if you are reading this months later when this is a zombie thread - please ask yourself -

1. What evidence shall I base my decision on?
2. What is the source of such evidence?
3. Has this evidence been professionally evaluated ie part of public policy, official medical guidance, in a reputable peer reviewed journal etc?
4. As a parent I love my child the most, but do I have the professional expertise to understand my child’s specialist bodily functions and needs? Does love and instinct replace expertise?

Bravo Thoughlessinengland. Beautifully put.

Research doesn’t equal stuff that pops up on FB or anti vaccination sites.

Very well put "Thoughtlessinengland*.

Social media and "Mum knows best" in high profile cases can galvanise people who think a tiny amount of non-epecialist knowledge makes them an expert because they saw something on Facebook and haven't the intelligence to realise that just because a situation is upsetting doesn't mean there needs to be a witch hunt against the experts.

Often I find myself concluding the more someone claims to know all the answers, pushes their chosen solution and (directly/indirectly) claims they don't do experts or expertise, the less they actually know on the topic. It's how really bad advice flourishes.

What Thoughtless and Snoozy said. Times 10.

Brilliantly put, @Thoughtlessinengland

it angers me actually that hcp are not made to have flu vaccines, and for that matter people who work with infants and the elderly me too

Certainly when I did my nurse training while it wasn’t compulsory it was made clear that if we didn’t have certain vaccinations we’d be restricted from training with certain vulnerable groups - which imo is how it should be

I have absolutely no time for anti-vaxxers well said op

@thoughtlessinengland excellent posts very well said

“and yes they are medical professionals but that's not enough for me to potentially put my baby at risk” wow! You think you know better than people with years even decades of training, qualifications and experience - that is astoundingly arrogant and foolish

NOTHING is 100% safe, not food, drink, the air you breathe, clothes you wear... NOTHING. But we KNOW from actually CENTURIES (the one very slight mistake thoughtlessinengland made) of study, research and properly assessed evidence that vaccinations are LESS risky than not vaccinating.

There are several pps on thread who are or were medical professionals.

Yes it’s absolutely terrifying how expertise is being vilified in the world generally.

@KayAR my test showed I was immune to chickenpox. Then I caught chickenpox WHILE PREGNANT.

I’m now 32 weeks pregnant with a baby who might have significant and catastrophic deformities and/or learning disabilities and there is no way of knowing until she’s born.

OP, I think you're looking for reassurance which is understandable but let's be honest here, yes you have been selfish and irresponsible with your child health (and you know it!) I understand how it's happened and I don't say it to be cruel but you've put your own comfort (physical and mental) above the wellbeing of your child and tried to minimise the risk in your own mind to avoid something difficult for you.

There's no point in beating yourself up about it but you do need to face that fact squarely and probably feel a bit bad about it to make you do better next time because you'll want to avoid feeling that way again.

Tell your healthcare team what's happened. They'll have heard it all before and be able to advise on the best course of action from here onwards to achieve the best protection for you and your baby which I fully appreciate is what you want.

Like a poster above, I got flu two days before I was due for my vaccination and my little newborn caught it from me. Horrible for both of us although mercifully less full-on than it could have been. I would not recommend!

We've all done stupid things out of fear (many times in my case!) and just have to give ourselves a bit of a shake and try harder next time. Good luck!