Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Feeling extra guilty about vaccines and embarrassed.

173 replies

SexlessBoulderBelly · 29/12/2019 22:47

I’m having a c section on Tuesday, I’ll be 37+4, baby is coming early due to issues with my placenta and growth restrictions.

Up until I was about 30 weeks and started attending the hospital every week, at my usual midwife appointment she reminded me to book my flu and whooping cough vaccine.

I’ve got to be completely honest, I totally put them off as I suffer terrible anxiety and was frightened did have a reaction to them. I never voiced that to the midwife and just kept saying I would book it in. I had every intention to do it as I absolutely want what’s best for DD but I just thought to myself every time I thought about it “I’ll ring tomorrow“

Even now I just think it’s pointless even if I could get a appointment. I know that logically it’s not pointless but the anxiety in me is brushing it off and I’m overcome with guilt.

I’m so pro vaccine for babies too. It’s just me having the vaccine that I can’t bring myself to doSad

I’m entitled to the flu vaccine for my job anyway and I’ve never had the jab done.

Am I absolutely terrible? Did anyone else not have them? Obviously not having the whooping cough vaccine I’m going to be recovering from the c section for a few weeks and will try to really limit visitors until baby has her first vaccines. Will keep hand sanitizer on the side table and make sure veryone wishes theirs hands before holding her and absolutely no kissing.. which would have been a request anyway. Something about kissing newborns on the face when they don’t belong to you makes me a bit irritated. Common sense (which I’m obviously lacking by jeopardising her health selfishly!)

I don’t really know what my question is, no one can tell me if she will catch whooping cough or flu, and people with hve different opinions on me being an idiot but I suppose I just needed to offload!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Cornyplaster · 31/12/2019 02:46

I think the difficulty lies when someone sticks rigidly to an opinion without strong empirical facts to back it up. That is what appears to have happened here. Clearly there are posters who really do know their stuff regarding this subject and therefore it’s frustrating not to be listened to.

FWIW I didn’t have the flu jab this year, I kissed the appointment and then didn’t get around to going back and then got flu. Not a cold, flu. I was fine in the morning and by lunch I thought I might die. The next day I WANTED to die it was so awful. Every single bit of my ached, even my toenails. It was 2 full weeks to get over it. I heartily wish I’d had the vaccine. Thankfully all my kids did and they didn’t get it.

Graphista · 31/12/2019 03:32

I don't have any medical qualifications I’m shocked!

Listen to the people who DO have the qualifications training and experience.

I’m an ex nurse, during my training I witnessed babies and young children suffering the complications of childhood illnesses because they weren’t vaccinated. Some were left with permanent disabilities inc brain damage. In a few cases it was sheer luck they lived!

My mother lost 2 cousins to childhood illnesses (until recently I’d thought it was only one) and my dad lost a cousin too 1 of those babies it was whooping cough.

When I was a baby and due my whooping cough vaccine there was a silly scare linking it to cot death. When my mother took me to be vaccinated the dr steeled themselves to try and convince another mother that the link was unfounded and vaccinating still preferable, but my mum was like ‘I’ve seen a baby dying of whooping cough, my kids are having all their vaccines” dr was relieved.

As your 'research' didn't even cover that very basic difference, I would urge extreme caution about relying on it to put it very mildly!

But when I have to make the decision of taking a risk when my unborn baby is affected NOT getting vaccinated is also a decision that involves taking a risk and actually puts your baby at greater risk than vaccinating does. That’s the point. Nobody is saying vaccines are perfect but the illnesses they protect from are more dangerous to your child than the very very small risk of a possible adverse reaction to vaccines.

“Research” is not merely reading articles online or books by people with little if any medical training of their own let alone understanding of how real research and stats work.

You need to consider:

Who wrote what you’re reading

What their qualifications and training is (and a certificate in homeopathy from some unregulated college doesn’t count!)

What THEIR bias and agenda is (EVERYONE has bias)

Who sponsored their research (eg I wouldn’t particularly trust a piece of research saying lactose intolerance doesn’t exist that’s been funded by the dairy council!)

What establishment the research took place in, what are their credentials, who are they financially beholden to?

The size of the study, how candidates were selected and which candidates excluded or removed from the study and why

How the research was undertaken - was it a double blind study? How was it monitored, how was it controlled etc

That’s why you’re better listening to people who understand such things far better than you do.

ANYBODY literally can write stuff online or even get a book published (it’s quite scary in this arena that there are books published full of utter nonsense but contain enough ifs buts and maybes to dodge legal challenge)

Personally I think laws should be much tighter on what people can say about things like this.

fluffyjumper · 31/12/2019 03:43

Baby will get the whooping cough vaccine at 8 weeks old.

Thoughtlessinengland · 31/12/2019 03:43

but I feel I know what is right for my baby

There is no arguing with stupidity and those that make life and death decisions based on ze feels and on their unqualified, untrained internet “research” on dodgy websites. Fine play with your baby’s life - but these are the sort of people jeopardising the health of others including vulnerable others. Maddening. But you know, ze feels innit hunnies.

Thoughtlessinengland · 31/12/2019 03:47

pointless in my opinion

And your opinion in a medical context is worth what? Jesus fucking Christ. A lay person with zero medical training, zero access to epidemiological evidence bases, zero understanding of biomedical intricacies at either population or individual levels, goes and reads random online sites, forms an “opinion” and suddenly becomes a fucking expert? What are your qualifications? Do you actually have legit qualifications for your opinion on medicine to actually count? Fucking hell.

TheBumbleBee · 31/12/2019 04:21

I'm guessing that last one was for me as you've taken 4 words from my last, much longer, comment. I dont normally engage with unpleasantness but to be clear;

I work in a hospital where it is my job to inform patients about the flu jab and aid them in making an informed decision on whether to have it. Because of this, I know that the flu jab only protects you against the few flu strains that are predicted to be most widespread this season, and there are many more flu strains that it does not protect you from. It does not completely protect you from flu, it simply makes it less likely to contract depending on the strain you come into contact with. Limiting your contact with infected people and maintaining good hygiene will reduce the chance of coming into contact with the virus and is just as effective from my personal experience, which is why I opted to do such instead of having the flu jab in my pregnancy

I never claimed to be an expert or have 'legit qualifications', I am just giving advice based on personal experience through working in a hospital. No need to be nasty Thoughtlessinengland.

TheBumbleBee · 31/12/2019 04:28

KayAR, I'm sorry to see that other people are giving you a hard time. Sometimes people seem to forget others are allowed to have a different opinion. I'm new to this site and find it quite disappointing how much negativity there is here. I dont know anything about the whooping cough vaccine as my midwife never mentioned it so I'd be very hesitant about having it until I know more. Being offered a medicine or vaccine doesnt always mean you should have it no questions asked - folic acid made me very ill and I had to stop taking it so I was very cautious in my pregnancy, hence no flu jab.

Thoughtlessinengland · 31/12/2019 05:05

It was taken from kayar post at 02:42. And nope: this is not a matter of opinions and illegit unqualified research or about refraining from nastiness to protect the feels. I will speak out for evidence based, qualified, authentic research and best practice in both medical and social sciences to counter hyperbole, poor research, feels and opinions not backed up by a robust evidence base - and if that makes me nasty so be it. There is NO room in this world for anti vaccine bullshit to be peddled and for feelings and opinions to jeopardise the health of society discounting decades of progress.

Thoughtlessinengland · 31/12/2019 05:09

Limiting your contact with infected people and maintaining good hygiene will reduce the chance of coming into contact with the virus and is just as effective from my personal experience

Forgive me. You work in a hospital. An NHS hospital? Where it is your JOB to impart information (note: information, not personal opinions or feels, as it’s a professional role) about the flu jab. And in that role is this above what you tell members of the public in your role? You tell them that in your personal experience and opinion limiting contact etc is “as effective” as the jab? You tell people this in your professional role in the hospital? You use the term “as effective”? No you don’t? Why not? If you do - I’d be very interested to know what hospital this is where members of the public, many presumably vulnerable, are being told by a professional that limiting contact etc is “as effective” as a vaccine.

surlecoup · 31/12/2019 05:15

Thoughtless - heat hear
Kayar - you have changed your opinion from your first post based upon what random people on the internet have written. At least you are moving in a direction supported by medical research/science. But you could so easily move someone else in the opposite direction with your expression of your hesitancy based on nothing more than feelings.
Talk to your doc/midwife/nurse and get real life fact-based input.

xJodiex · 31/12/2019 05:34

I agree with @Graphista - people should get their vaccines.

TheBumbleBee · 31/12/2019 05:58

Thoughtlessinengland, note I said from my personal experience, meaning my own health and lack of contracting flu, particularly during my pregnancy where I was relocated by my manager to work away from unwell staff and was not able to work on the ward due to the risk of flu. This was following NHS staff procedure and I did not get flu despite not having the jab and working in the same building as staff who had contracted flu regardless of the jab. So yes, personally, I have not contracted flu whilst maintaining good hygiene and actively avoiding anyone infected. A jab will not protect you if you fail to wash your hands and pick up one of the many strains of flu it does not vaccinate you against, hence why some of my colleagues still got flu regardless. Again, this is my personal experience. Meaning what I have personally experienced during my lifetime, I'm sorry you are getting this confused but I'm not sure how I can make it clearer. My work is separate and involves giving patients information either verbally or as a leaflet, discussing the jab, it's effectiveness and their options and giving advice around good hygiene and minimising contact but that does not mean I will regale them with my personal experience and opinion as that would be inappropriate for a professional environment. I dont understand why you need to question my work when I am simply sharing my own experience and not a professional recommendation.

As for your 'speaking out', it may be brash but if that's how you are I'm not particularly bothered, it's the swearing that I find unpleasant. Its unnecessary and, in my opinion, rather childish that you cant use less abusive words to get your point across. There's simply no need for it. I'd expect it from a teenager, not an adult.

Generally I think vaccines are beneficial though I can understand why some people choose not to have them and respect that decision. I decided not to have the flu vaccine during my pregnancy because it would have been riskier than not having it and I fail to see the point in it.

Namestranger · 31/12/2019 06:10

When did vaccines become like a religion when you have to "respect everyone's right to an opinion" instead of just listening to the experts who actually know about this stuff. If you were taken to court you wouldn't be "doing my own research thanks" you'd hire a flippin solicitor 😂

Thoughtlessinengland · 31/12/2019 06:25

Thebumblebee - if you are new to Mumsnet you will find that this is a site where swearing is prevalent, and absolutely okay. This is not Hunsnet. If you’d like floral niceties and headmistresses frowning upon sweariness, Nethuns is that way —->. I mean Netmums. But hey - welcome to Mumsnet.

I shudder to think that there are people working in our public health services who genuinely believe that personal experiences feelz and opinions trump evidence based research and policy and who sit there distributing public health leaflets whilst genuinely truly believing that personal hygiene is “just as effective” as a jab. Just as effective and personal experience and feels and opinions being bandied about in the context of evidence based public health. Jesus wept.

Thoughtlessinengland · 31/12/2019 06:29

And there you go - a nice intro to swearing on Mumsnet where Nethuns types come in and are offended by the occasional “oh do fuck off dear” - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2673978-Swearing-on-Mumsnet?pg=2&order=

As I said, if offended, and if seeking starmarks crossing out swear words and xxxx at the end of a line of hunnies, Netmums awaits ——>

corduroyal · 31/12/2019 06:37

You should be way more anxious about not having a vaccine than having one. Look up what whooping cough does to a child.

Selfsettling3 · 31/12/2019 06:37

The whooping cough vaccine is to hopefully pass immunity to baby in the womb. It was introduced to pregnant women after a number of new born babies died from whooping cough before they were told enough to get the vaccine themselves.

I’m all for informed parental choice but I get angry at people who are too lazy to do proper research and make potential life or death decisions on behalf of their children based on “feels’.

Thoughtlessinengland · 31/12/2019 06:42

I think the people of the opinion that vaccines are optional/damaging are indeed convinced of “proper research” that they have done whilst it’s actuall ze feels they have got a grip on. Their “proper research” usually consists of -

  1. Dodgy websites (ie not evidenced based public policy documents, or reputed peer reviewed publications in esteemed journals)
  1. Hive mind chatter on offline and online similar minded echo chambers.
  1. Any random internet video cos if it’s online it must be true
  1. Perceived Personal experience (the logic of “I have not got pox in 2 years in a nursery so it follows that”..)
  1. He said she said glenda’s SIL overheard
  1. My feelings and opinions.

That surely amounts to “I have done my own research”....

Fucket · 31/12/2019 06:44

It angers me actually that hcp are not made to have flu vaccines, and for that matter people who work with infants and the elderly. You are the people who are in the most contact with vulnerable in our society, too young, sick or old to have vaccines. Being fit and strong adults, you’re more likely to soldier on at work for as long as possible, spreading these viruses with the vulnerable.

Thoughtlessinengland · 31/12/2019 06:47

Fucket - your username may cause offence 😂 yes the idea that people working in hospitals are not potentially vaccinated and in contact with vulnerable others is of great concern I think

zsazsajuju · 31/12/2019 06:49

It’s frightening how stupid some people are.

MrsG010814 · 31/12/2019 06:49

So irresponsible to not have wc vaccine. Its to protect your baby. If your baby died from wc because you didn't vaccinate I wonder if you would still be saying you did your best. Wc is awful, if you had experience of it you wouldn't be refusing to vaccinate or be questioning qualified hcp's. I'm sure Dr Google is more qualified than your doctors/midwives 🙄

similarminimer · 31/12/2019 06:50

I really don't understand the 'flu vaccine doesn't cover all strains therefore I won't have it' argument. It's engineered annually to cover the most likely strains predicted for that year. It's a hell of a lot better than nothing - and why not wash your hands and have the vaccine. Where's your cut off? Covers 10%? 50? 99? And how are you deciding? What proportion of strains have been covered each year for the last 10 years? What risk reduction does it offer? What is your estimate of the rate of harm from the vaccine? If you can't answer those questions then you're just winging it and would be better to listen to the epidemiology experts who can.

zsazsajuju · 31/12/2019 06:52

Also breastfeeding doesn’t give babies antibodies. Antibodies need to be build in the bloodstream by exposure to disease.

RhymingRabbit3 · 31/12/2019 06:52

Your baby will get what they need for the first few weeks from you.
Not if you haven't been vaccinated. If you're not immune to whooping cough, the baby won't be either!

Swipe left for the next trending thread