Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Due January 2019 (3rd thread)

999 replies

Buttercup53 · 26/08/2018 16:41

Starting a new thread for the January 2019 crew! Newcomers welcome :)

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
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Buttercup53 · 21/09/2018 08:32

I can’t remember where I read it, but I recall seeing that your bump actually starts at your chest and can go down to just above your knees, so that entire area can be affected by growth pains and stretching. I don’t know if it’s true, but anecdotally it makes sense to me as I have aches and pains in all that area that I’ve never had before.

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eilidh1986 · 21/09/2018 08:33

Hi guys,

Hope we are all doing well! My sickness has returned over last couple of days, feel fine so don't know what this wee guy is up too! Lol!

Controversial topic I know but is anyone else feeling reluctant to get their vaccines, i.e the flu & whooping cough? I'm so sceptical of vaccines & pharmaceutical agendas & I'm holding out before I know I really need to decide! No one in the NHS will advise you otherwise so feel all I'm left with is my own research most of which is American based. Don't feel I could ever be completely pro or anti vaccine and it's such a personal decision but can't help but feeling pressured into something that just doesn't sit completely right with me.

Pelly8 · 21/09/2018 08:34

@cryptonaut this is worrying as I have woken up today with pain in the lower right back area. It feels muscular as it eases up when I walk but I might mention it to the midwife.

Funnily enough, my groin doesn’t feel as bad today.

I get cramps in my legs too and it’s so frustrating!

@jennac that’s a very good description of what I was experiencing!

doleritedinosaur · 21/09/2018 09:25

@HolDaws there’s also Phil & teds & another one I see people using so I’ll keep an eye out.
The Quinny is expensive firsthand, I picked mine up secondhand & a local bike shop has repaired a wheel when I’ve had a puncture.

@cryptonaut I had those cramps & it means I’m dehydrated so I just try to keep drinking as much as possible.

@elidih I’m not having the flu jab but even though NHS says it doesn’t make you ill it does make me ill. I even have to avoid family members who have it, if I’m with them for a few days.
But I’m having the whooping cough & Anti D. Whooping cough passes on immunity to the baby as it’s really serious if they catch it.
There’s nothing in the jabs that isn’t already in your body & they are rigorously rested.
If your midwife is decent she can link you to peer reviewed journals as anything less is not good or decent information.

Does anyone else have the intense mood swings? I’ve exploded a few times on holiday whereas I wouldn’t have normally.

Buttercup53 · 21/09/2018 09:42

@elidih We live in a vaccinated world, and especially in this country and the US, that means we massively underestimate the seriousness of the illnesses were vaccinated against. For example, flu is so underestimated that it’s now used as short hand for a bad cold a lot of the time - it wasn’t that many decades ago that the Spanish influenza (aka flu) killed a significant proportion of the world’s population, and today we are privaledged enough to just shrug it off as ‘one of those things’ purely because of vaccines. I’m not trying to be goady especially on this thread because it’s a lovely support network, but what is it about pharmaceutical companies you find untrustworthy? Sure they’re exceedingly corrupt in terms of money (which is more of a problem in countries that don’t have a national health service), but what it is about the actual vaccines that you find untrustworthy? For what it’s worth, I feel reluctant to get every vaccine because I always feel like crap for a few days afterwards and I always have, but that’s the only reluctance I feel. I had the whooping cough vaccine, I felt shit for a couple of days, I got over it.

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eilidh1986 · 21/09/2018 10:45

Thanks guys for your replies! It's such a personal decision & in no way am I not acknowledging the seriousness of these illnesses. I think your right @Buttercup53 that we prob have become a tad complacent because immunisation programmes have been so successful in eradicating previously deadly illnesses!

I am very sceptical of pharmaceutical companies because of the basic fact that they make billions out of people being ill. I know first hand the effect a supposed preventative medicine had on a close family member & what it brought about & for that reason I'm pretty scared of them. Like you @Buttercup53 I don't want to cause any controversy on here as it is a very supportive forum! Xx

eilidh1986 · 21/09/2018 10:47

@doleritedinosaur thanks Mrs, I feel if I'm leaning more towards one it is the whooping cough vaccine! As a teacher I see how unwell children in my class get following the flu vaccines & it just makes you question what is best x

jennac · 21/09/2018 11:09

@eilidh1986 I am so pleased to see your post - I am exactly the same but haven't wanted to mention it on Mumsnet in general as have seen the kind of responses that people get when they say they are even questioning vaccination. I have decided against whooping cough and the flu jab, I know this is a very personal decision and I would never tell anyone they shouldn't get them in the same way that I would hope someone else wouldn't tell me to get them. This is not a decision I have made lightly and have been doing extensive research (only from qualified practitioners) and am now against pregnant women being vaccinated, it's hard to summarise here but essentially you can't do testing on pregnant women so it's never been proved as safe, the effectiveness levels are very low and the content on the vaccines are questionable. Like you I found it hard to find UK based research but I am currently reading a brilliant book by a UK GP so if you'd like to message me I can send you the name. (Don't wanna force it on you!) it is a very touchy subject nowadays and I just wish people would let me make my own (informed) decision. I had two midwives gang up on me at my 25 week appointment which I found shocking as I can guarantee I've probably spent more hours researching this than they have

jennac · 21/09/2018 11:11

@Buttercup53 that's funny, it really makes sense that your bump goes down to your knees because I've been getting all kind of twitches and weird sensations in my thighs, but thought no way could that be related! I guess it's such an enormous change that it makes sense that a larger area is affected!

cryptonaut · 21/09/2018 15:35

Regarding vaccines, I've already had the whooping cough to pass it on to the baby. In the past I have never taken up the offer of flu vaccines for a variety of reasons. However, in the past 7 years I have had flu 4/5 times (real flu, diagnosed, not just bad colds) usually over the Xmas period and I have never ever experienced any other illness like it. Knowing how sick I was in those instances and that the immune system is weaker in pregnancy, I am extremely worried about getting flu this winter and what effect it would have on the baby. For this reason I have decided that I will get the flu vaccine on this occasion.

GinGeum · 21/09/2018 15:39

crypto same here. I had flu last year in October and it took months to get back to normal. The thought of getting flu and then having to give birth with no strength whatsoever seems terrifying, let alone the risks it poses for baby and myself!

purplesmiler · 21/09/2018 15:49

I had both whooping cough and flu vaccines this morning. I was quite poorly with a chest infection that bordered on pneumonia a few years ago so I get quite anxious about this so for me the decision was easy. I respect everyones individual choices.

le42 · 21/09/2018 16:55

@jennac > I've had the exact pain! I thought i'd overstretched in yoga but it was hurting when I walked, feels more like the front of my top thigh and pelvis rather than the groin but I'm so aware of it. I feel so creaky and stiff. Like bats are going to fly out when I stand up!! :(

DoraNora · 21/09/2018 20:10

@cryptonaut and @GinGeum same here! I think anyone who has had the actual flu would never turn down the chance to have the jab - I can't imagine going through that and being pregnant.

I got it last year and I was too weak to even go downstairs, sometimes too weak to even sit up. It took several weeks to recover fully. I have never, ever been so ill.

The effects of a jab would have to be pretty horrendous to be worth risking going through that again, let alone while pregnant.

@Buttercup53 you are right that we are so far removed from what the effects of these illnesses actually are we happily say 'oh no, I don't want to risk feeling under the weather for a couple of days' and don't realise what we leave ourselves open to.

eilidh1986 · 21/09/2018 20:41

Thank you @jennac & like u I have ventured into the pretty scary world that is a mumsnet vaccines thread! Don't know if I would make it out alive or at least without being battered by a self righteous judgement stick on the way out, lol! In all seriousness like you I wouldn't tell someone what is best for them & I'm certainly not an anti vaccine person. I guess I would just like to be more informed about what is in these vaccines & how they can be confident that they are safe for pregnant women. Would defo appreciate the book recommendation to help me with my decision but not sure I've worked out yet how to private message?? Hmm

Thankfully I've not had flu before but really does sound horrendous so no wonder those of you who have had it get the vaccine!

Have a great weekend everyone x

Chelle13 · 21/09/2018 23:58

Hi ladies im not having the flu jab for a few reasons but are only my reasons.
I was pregnant last year and had the flu jab and was very poorly straight after also my babys heart stopped 3days after having it with no reason.this was my 4th pregnancy and had all my other children perfectly fins without it .this was my first time havibg the flu jab.i gave birth to a baby that had nothing wrong with him but like i said his heart had stopped inside me .im currently 25 weeks pregnant again with my rainbow baby and ive choosen not yo have the flu jab.but these are just my reasons xxx

eilidh1986 · 22/09/2018 07:59

@Chelle13 that is truly awful & I'm so sorry for what you have been through.
I think at that stage you do prob start relaxing a bit more as feel you are out the immediate danger zone time so for that to happen must have been heartbreaking! I hope you are keeping well with this very special rainbow pregnancy! Thank you for sharing your experience & like you I get how personal a decision this is but there is just not a lot of information out their to support anyone going against the mainstream advice xx

jennac · 22/09/2018 08:36

@Chelle13 I am so sorry to hear what you've been through, that must have been unimaginably difficult and so pleased you are now in a happier and exciting place. Congratulations on your pregnancy!! It must have been a very hard time and I imagine few medical professionals would admit a possible link to the flu jab? Sending lots of love xxx

@eilidh1986 haha, no worries!! I've just actually tried to send a message and realised I don't know how either! The book is 'Vaccines: Making the Right Choice for Your Child' by Richard Halvorsen. It's not an anti vaccination book at all which I really like, it simply breaks down each vaccine and tells you the ingredients, side effects, whether they are effective or necessary in this day and age and also offers an alternative vaccination schedule if you wanted to try and give non-combined vaccines or to spread them out over the child's life instead of giving them all when they are very young as provided by the NHS (the effects of which can be devastating). Anyway, I'll let you read it and make up your own mind 😊 would be nice to stay in touch and hear your thoughts as I find this quite a lonely road to walk down sometimes!

jennac · 22/09/2018 08:37

@eilidh1986 ps. Make sure you buy the updated fourth edition xx

Buttercup53 · 22/09/2018 08:49

@chelle very sorry for your loss, that must have been horrific for you. If it’s not too difficult to talk about, as you have brought this up during the topic of vaccines, did a doctor give the the flu jab as the reason why your baby died immediately following it? How far along were you, because I don’t think you’ve mentioned it in your post? Looking at your post history on other threads, it suggests you had a missed miscarriage? I may have misunderstood your previous posts though. Apologies for the grilling but at this is a thread of primarily (but not only) anxious first time mums, I think if you come in to a discussion about vaccines saying that a flu jab killed your baby, there needs to be a greater level of detail given - I know when I read that it made my heart skip a beat and feel quite sick, as it’s obviously a truly horrific thing to go through.

My honest belief is that the anti-vaccine movement is toxic and spreads dangerous information by people who believe they’ve done more ‘research’ (using Google, presumably?) than people who have undergone actual medical training. Previously eradicated diseases have now been reintroduced into society because of the anti vaccine movement. That means people who medically cannot have vaccinations are more likely to catch the disease and die because herd immunity doesn’t exist anymore. It means that my baby is more likely to catch something like whooping cough when he’s tiny because some people have read something on Facebook that says they shouldn’t have the jab. There’s a reason why the mainstream information given is pro vaccine, and it’s the same reason why all the mainstream information is that climate change is real - because it’s true. Some people will have a bad reaction to vaccines, just like some people will have a bad reaction to painkillers and food. We are literally going backwards as a society because of this BS.

It’s hard for me to write all this because my OCD makes me think ‘now you’ve said this, you’re going to get the jab and then the baby will die’ but it needs saying, I can’t be complicit to false information being spread by saying I respect everyone’s choice just for the sake of avoiding making the thread awkward. Maybe my emotions are heightened at the minute, but since others feel comfortable enough sharing their opinions, this is mine.

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jennac · 22/09/2018 08:59

Hi @Buttercup53, I really appreciate your views and am not going to get into a debate, all I ask is that you please don't assume that all I've read is on Facebook (which I don't even have, thank you very much!) or google, when the my hours of research has been based around the thesis and journals of medical professors and GPs. Thank you for that little courtesy 😊 I will respect your views if you do not belittle mine.

aburrow93 · 22/09/2018 09:58

I think @buttercup53 has actually asked a very valid question by asking how far along she was. There will be several people on here who have already gotten their flu jabs or have theirs booked in and will read the post and will be really alarmed and terrified!!! I think they deserve to know all the facts before they start panicking.
@chelle I am truly sorry for your loss. It's everyone's worst nightmare I'm sure.

Buttercup53 · 22/09/2018 10:28

@aburrow that’s the thing - I don’t want to get into an argument with a stranger online (honest!), but if no one says anything that doesn’t disagree with the other opinions being shared, someone very vulnerable could come along, read that, and completely freak out. I know I did when I read it this morning!

@jennac I’m sorry you feel belittled by my opinion. I’m interested to know what resources you used to find these journals and theses if it wasn’t a search engine. Are you a member of an academic body? Because that would give you access to Jstor etc, but otherwise I can’t think what you’d use other than a search engine to find this information. The publishing industry isn’t much more regulated than the internet, either, so if it’s physical books where did you find out about them?

Also as an FYI I’m not saying we shouldn’t question medical bodies at all. I don’t just blindly take every pill and jab offered to me. But I also believe that the majority of health care providers aren’t actively trying to kill me and my baby and probably have my best interests in mind (and might know more about this stuff than I do).

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eilidh1986 · 22/09/2018 10:41

Thanks @jennac for recommending I'm on amazon just now checking it out & from the reviews it says the Dr is pro vaccine so it appears to be just like you say, a book to give you all the information so to make a proper informed choice. Which for me might be to go ahead & be vaccinated. I have never once claimed to be all one way or all the other - I don't think anyone can!

It was never my intention to cause any controversy on this thread or to evoke any anxiety in anyone. However it has been something that I have been wrangling with myself & there just isn't enough information out there to be completely informed.

I have personal experience of my dad being given a form of preventative medicine, statins to be exact for a condition he didn't have & the results were devastating. Without going into details, as i know it is not particularly relevant to this group however it provides some context to my apprehension to go with the mainstream health agenda. I have no doubt that this drug accelerated & worsened a disease that my dad may have got eventually. 10-15 years ago everyone was prescribed statins for a slight rise in cholesterol. Now they are so reluctant to prescribe at all & don't unless their is a significant risk of cardiovascular disease. The effects on too many people were proof that it was wrong to mass prescribe this drug.

It is therefore my possible anxiety of what I witnessed first hand that is causing me to look a bit further into this so to be sure that this is not going to be the case with these vaccines. It is for that reason I have to agree with @jennac that it's not fair to not respect other people's views when everyone's starting point here is different.

jennac · 22/09/2018 11:14

@Buttercup53 I would just like to say that I am not making you justify your opinions, so I'm not sure why I have to justify mine? If you have carried out extensive research into the safety of vaccinations via a channel that you deem reliable and have decided to proceed on that basis, I am very happy for you to do so. However, since you ask, I have recently completed a BSc where I had extensive access to medical journals as a student of a renowned university. Much of my research was carried out during this time, along with discussions held with academics and students alike who had firsthand experience of the ineffectiveness and possible side effects of the rigorous vaccination schedule currently implemented in the U.K. The book that I have just recommended to @eilidh1986 is written by a qualified, experienced British GP and is a great entry point for this subject.

I wish to say no more on this... I have been posting on this thread since May time and have never brought it up as I know how upset people get when this is discussed, so if we could all respect each other, that would be wonderful 😊