Up-the-duffers...what are you scoffing?

[DetentionGrrrl]

I have discovered that the key to not feeling horribly nauseous is eating pretty much constantly.

Today i have had:

2 pieces toast with marmite
Yogurt
Handful Ritz crackers
2 cheese crispy pancakes (which i thought would be nicer than they tasted)

Fancy quiche and jacket potato for tea. And some mint poppets. Hmm...poppets...

Toadstool, thanks for the concern but it depends what you say is an issue with food. I have an issue with crp food in a Gillian McKeith kinda way. My body was not craving that piece of almond slice, and would not have garnered any goodness from it cos there is little goodness in it. The only times I have felt rubbish during this PG is after I have eaten sugary fatty food (usually after the weekends). So I know things taste nice but then make me feel crp, so yes I do have an issue with food whether I am PG or not.

Just thought I would share my story from what a cr*p day I had yesterday and maybe get some understabding from MNers as my emotions are all over the shop.

I have to disagree that I have been agressive, I have said many times that it is up to each individual what they eat. It is a free country, I just wanted to put over a different opinion.

Also, I didn't "agonise" over eating it, I clearly said in my post that I didn't even want one but after they were sat in front of me I did, so I had one. I don't call that agonising. I have also previously sais that millions of babies are born perfectly healthy after their mums ate rubbish so it is not big news to me that your friend ate waffles and had a healthy baby.

Sorry toadstool, I was being aggressive then. I am feeling quite fragile today...

And my day yesterday wasn't crp - my little sister had a baby which is amazing and she is beautiful. The rest of my day was crp though

And now I look like a crazy rambling fool!! Which I am, forgive me - when do these hormones go away? PG seems to have hit me like a train this week

Either way people, I don't think any of us would disagree with what constitutes healthy or unhealthy food, nor the fact that healthy food is obviously optimal. I just think that our levels of resistance, logic and energy all go out of the window when pg (speaking for myself anyway!). I'm am resigning myself to that fact and not fretting too much that I had 2 donuts for my lunch at work today (had intended to go home before lunch so hadn't taken any in, and was better than nothing!) but had a healthy turkey stir fry for my dinner. Everything in moderation. (Ok 2 donuts is not moderation but that's what happens to me when i deprive myself!)

NH101, sorry you had a tough day, but hope you can understand a little bit more what it has been like for those of us who find most days pretty tough through being pg. Hope your weekend is better though

Twiga, it could have been worse, you could be craving chocolate, avacado and fishfingers all in one sandwiches and doesn't sound pleasant even to me!

Well I'm 29+1 weeks pregnant and if I want a piece of cake or a muffin or some chocolate I'll bloody well have one! I hate being 'told of' for eating what I want, it's my body and my baby. If I want a chocolate bar or a packet of crisps I hardly think it makes me the worst mother to be in the world! I try and eat as well as I can but in all honesty, if I'm too tired to prepare and cook a meal for 2 hours I'll make something quick that is maybe not the healthiest option - so shoot me!

I had awful morning sickness for the first 12 weeks of my pregnancy and I don't think this is any indication of bad diet. Where did that come from? Morning sickness is usually seen as a sign of a healthy pregnancy, it's got naff all to do with diet unless you've gone and eaten some dodgy food that's made you physically ill. Pregnacy in my opinion is no picnic and I haven't really enjoyed it at all. And I think a lot of woman would agree that it's nice to indulge and have some chocolate when your severe morning sickness, or exhaustion or even hormones get the better of you one day.

Each day I try and make sure I'm eating a piece of fruit and some veg, a glass of milk, glass of fruit juice, a probiotic yoghurt drink, lots of squash and water, and my 3 main meals. Usually with some junk food thrown in too, sometimes not. And I don't feel bad for it either, I'm sharing the chocolatey goodness with my bean - who likes it all very much too! Muffin anyone?

Why thank you v much Lwatkins, that'll do very nicely for my brekkie!
I'm with you in the not enjoying pregnancy camp, and I think they can loosely be divided up into those who have suffered ms (and other symptoms) and those who haven't. It's funny how being pg makes you public property and open to being told off or commented on for anything like what you eat, how big you are, the shoes you are wearing, your hormones... None of these things would be appropriate any other time but people seem to take the responsibility on themselves when you're pg!

The irony is that my diet was worse during the first three months than it has been over the last 3 years. I'm usually very protective with my food - everything is made from scratch, no fast food or packets, and I have a healthy balanced diet.

Unfortunately the first few months I was incredibly tired and my OH was away a lot so I ended up just eating any old thing. The last few weeks I've been getting better (I'm almost 17 weeks) and trying to return to a more balanced diet. It's not quite there yet, and yesterday I scoffed a huge bag of malteasers and the first KFC I've had in 3 years, but at least I'm happy with my diet for 80% of the time

usually we eat very well at home, veggies, fruits, no fast food, etc. and i was doing so well on my first 3 months... perhaps because i was having morning sickness and didnt feel like eating much anyway, so i was just being healthy and good!

now that im 19+3 all the good diet has gone out of the window. we still eat healthy meals, dont get me wrong, but the problem is what i eat in BETWEEN. muffins, chocs, hot dogs, sweet pies, mcdonalds, you name it!

my husband and my sister (she lives with us) dont care about the junk food i eat, they say, oh well, you are pregnant... at work it doesnt matter cause most of the people dont know anyway.

i havent put on much weight yet but i know what a situation i will be in once our baby is out in this world and i will have to work my butt off at the gym!

[i eat but i do feel slightly guilty...]

The hardest thing I found was when I had morning sickness when I wanted to eat I had to eat STRAIGHT AWAY, and couldn't cope with preparing food so I ate quite a few microwave meals which I am usually SO against! And each day I could only eat one particular thing, and it was different each day. I actually cried in waitrose because they didn't have the pasta sauce I wanted to eat, and could face anything else!

Bumperlicious, you are so right, when I feel the nausea I have to eat straight away that instant. Am RAVENOUS for carbs at the mo (12 weeks ish) which I normally avoid as they make me very sluggish, but seem to be perking me right up now - obviously a bit of a starchy baby!

Had a major craving for BUTTERSCOTCH ANGEL DELIGHT today, which I have not had since I was about 12 - tore round Sainsburys like a crazy woman until I found some and am just waiting for it to set so that I can have a nostalgia/additive fest - yum.

Hi y'all! it's interesting reading the debate over the past few days. I've had lectures from so many people about diet now, I'm starting to lose the will to live! one of the gps at my surgery tried to put me on what I'd call an extreme diet (1000 cals a day, no animal products whatsoever) and my mum told me off for putting on 3 lbs in 13 weeks of pregnancy. She said to me that I should be aiming to put no weight on at all during this pregnancy (ie effectively losing the 2stone extra I'm carrying).

The thing is, it's really easy for others to sit in on judgment of others during pregnancy. Like someone else said, people treat your pregnancy as public property.

I'm currently on night shifts (5 x 12 hour night shifts) and that on top of pregnancy is making me beyond tired. All I want to eat is bread and other carb type foods. I really want to eat healthily and avoid putting on weight, but under the strain I am at the moment, I feel that's so difficult. I'm trying to maintain my intake of everything else healthy, so that if I do have to eat more carbs I'm not missing out on anything. I wish I could call my miserable doctor and tell him now (at 1am when I've still got 8 hours to work) that perhaps he'd like to join me in a salad!!!

Sorry if that all comes across as a bit narky, just grumpy old night shift persona taking over!!! Now, where's that mars bar?

MrsMar, why are they (mom, gp...) pressuring you so much? were you overweight before you got pregnant? i was just wondering why even the gp has mentioned a diet...

anyway, i love eating carbs too, and they make me sooooo sleepy. sometimes i win the battle of not eating it so much, sometimes i lose.

I know my opinions haven't been very well received and I am sorry for that and sorry that I have narked people off (which I now realise I was bound to do).

But I thought you'd like to read what I have read which makes me think the way I do about diet:

This is from "Optimum Nutitrition Before, During And After Pregnancy" by Susannah Lawson and Patrick Holford:

"During the first three months of PG all the organs of your baby are completely formed. It is during this period that optimum nutrition is most important. Yet many people experience continual sickness at this time and don't feel like eating healthily.

"PG sickness is one example of a condition that usually only manifests itself in women whose nutritional status is less than optimum. Probably caused by an increase in the hormone HCG, women with poor diets are particularly at risk (Ref. "Nausea and vomiting in pregnancy" by B Pickard)

"HCG is produced by the developing placenta from the moment of conception and usually reaches its peak at around 9 or 10 weeks before declining by week 14 to 16.

"In very undernourished mothers, HCG may not be produced in sufficient quantities at all, which may explain why women who miscarry early are less likely to experience PG sickness.

"Conversely, very well-nourished women appear to ride the storm of these hormonal changes with little or no symptoms at all.

"Other possible explanations for sickness involve the body trying to eliminate toxins, and also difficulty maintaining blood sugar balance."

That's why I think steering clear of sugary foods (to maintain blood sugar balance) is important, plus not wasting calories on junk and using them for nutrient-dense foods instead. Also, I know the more sugary foods I eat, the more I want (cos my blood sugar levels go all over the place) so I try to steer clear of them completely.

I think this book is really good and would recommend it to anyone thinking of PG or already PG.

Well that's one opinion.

By Patrick Holford who not only is a man so unlikely to ahve been hit hard by ms but is also quite controversial. I'm not sure he has any qualifications apart from one he awarded himself. There was an article about him recently in the Guardian bad science bit. I'll try and find it online if I get time.

I'm happy for you nh101 that you've been so lucky to feel so well and to be able eat well - but for those of us struggling to get through each day please stop making us feel guilty and unhealthy.

And it's utter utter bollocks about the healthy diet pre pregnancy theory meaning no ms.

Patrick Holford...hmm I read one of his books about ten years ago. Many of these so called experts in nurtition are not eminent, experienced dieticians. Patrick Holford's BSC is in psychology not nutrition! His significant qualification in health matters is the DipION awarded by the Institution of Optimum Nutrition which was set up as a 'charitable and independent educational trust ' by none other than Patrick Holford himself. Hire a few rooms in some managed office space in Richmond, London and you can have an International Headquarters. Even better, get one of those new universities (say Luton) to accredit your course and you can expect a stream of fresh new students. I am very sceptical of people like him.

I would take the moderate advice of my doctor and hospital dietician over any advice written by these quacks trying to sell us books. I am sure there is some good advice in his books but we all know that we should try to eat a healthy diet. His claim that only people who had previously unhealthy diets get morning sickness is untrue as many on this thread can testify to. If that was true then women athletes would never experience extreme MS and I happen to know this is untrue.

Glad you are managing to stick to your healthy diet though I am doing alot better in this last week also.

xx

Hmmm, until men get pregnant, I'm not really going to listen to their 'advice' on what I should do while preggers. I eat v healthily usually, prorrige from breakfast, I always make dinners from scratch, and due to a broken oven, can't make any cakes/bikkies at the mo. And yet for this second preg, I couldn't eat or drink for 4 days solid, I was going to be admitted to hospital, as I lost 4 kg in those 4 days. I couldn't drink anything except lemon squash, couldn't eat anything at all except for salt and pepper tuc crackers (mmmm) - and only a couple a day. My obst. kept telling me to eat protein for the first few months, but the mere THOUGHT of meat or beans made me throw up. MS has absolutely nothing to do with your diet, if you get it, poor you, try and weather through it and then eat as healthily as possible from then on. Forcing myself to eat food (whether healthy or unhealthy) just made me throw up. So I think everyone should lighten up whilst having MS, and get back on track afterwards. And easter eggs are an important source of either calcium (if you like milk choc) or antioxidents (if you crave dark choc). You have to enjoy yourself, eating mung beans for 9 months would personally kill me. As would eating Maccy Ds for 9 months. It's the balance that's important. There, my tuppence worth.

Isn't there a theory the opposite of HOlford's basically- that certain pg women are driven to avoid strong flavoured things, particularly vegetables and herbs, because the embryo is actually acting on parts of the brain to protect itself from any possible toxin?

the baby is so small at that stage that it will simply take whatever nutrients there are from the mother and effectively starve her of them because of her hormonal hypersensitivity to toxins. No one seems to be able to explain, though, why only certain women experience this effect. I suspect it has to do with your general hormone tolerance and balance (mine is always terrible).

The theory makes a bit of sense to me because when pg I couldn't stand the smell or taste of anything remotely strong. Before getting pg, I had a pretty good, largely organic, varied diet. When pg I could smell EVERYTHING and herbs, veg etc made me gag. Couldn't stand the smell of anything rotting, bad breath(!) etc. I craved strong clean flavours like vinegar, citrus, and mint.

Didn't eat anything much except bland carbs and a bit of cheese (which usually came back).

Now at 36 weeks I am scoffing sour cream and chive flavour pretzels. And the whole pack has just gone.

I know Patrick Holford got a hard time after he published his "Food is better medicine than drugs" book which is probably what the Guardian article is about. But this PG book is referenced with 169 articles and research papers so it is not like they just sat there and made it up. Anyway, it is not written by Patrick, it is written by Susannah with Patrick's help (probably with his name to it cos it boosts its profile).

I followed his GL Diet (which balances blood sugar levels) before I got PG and it is the best eating plan I've ever folllowed, it really did banish cravings and boost energy. They did diet trials on GMTV before Christmas using his diet (plus others) See

www.gm.tv/index.cfm?articleid=23465

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, you all know mine . I am just glad MN is a place where you can have a healthy debate.

This is a fascinating article published last year in a believable and peer-reviewed journal ) about risk factors associated with morning sickness:

They interviewed 22,000 women and discovered that morning sickness:

Was more likely the younger you were
Was more likely the more children you had
Was more likely the more previous m/cs you had
Was more likely in pregnancies with twins

Also that women whose morning sickness started after the first trimester tended to be less well-off and less well educated than women whose morning sickness started early in their pregnancy.

However socio-economic status (and hence probably the level of nutrition) of women had no bearing on the absolute likelihood of their having morning sickness.

Hi Jabuti, sorry for the delay in replying, I was asleep all day cos I'm on nights... bleurgh!

I was overweight before I got pg, and still am. 13st10 and 5'10". I saw on my notes at my scan the other day that my BMI is 28 point something, so awfully close to the dreaded 30 (and officially being obese!) hence my paranoia about weight gain during pregnancy. I'm not going bonkers though, I'm fairly confident of losing anything extra I put on after the baby's born, I'm going back to work after maternity leave to a really physically demanding job, so the incentive to get down the gym as soon as I can will be there!

Mrs Mar, it's crazy and irresponsible of anyone to suggest you don't put on any weight during this pregnancy. You'll be a wreck at the end of it. You need your strength as much as your baby does. And starving yourself isn't going to get you there.

It pays to be sensible about what you eat, of course. Gorging on junk food isn't the way to go, pregnant or not. But just as important as what you're eating is how much exercise you are getting.

If you're making sure you're walking say 4-5 days a week, doing some stretching/yoga a couple of times a week, you'll be in good shape. I always think of the 10,000 steps a day we're supposed to be doing. somedays better than others!

Hi Medulsa - yeah I did think it was a bit ridiculous too! I've got a terrible cold at the moment and I'm on nights, so exercise is difficult, but the past couple of weeks I've been getting back to some kind of exercise regime. It's been difficult as I've had quite bad morning sickness, but the other day, I couldn't quite face a run, so I fast walked my usual 10K route. It took me about an hour and half, but it was a great day, I had the ipod on shuffle. I really enjoyed it, I must to it again when I'm healthy again. My legs were quite achy afterwards so I must have been working something!