Fed is Best!!!!!!

[HotDawg123]

If you choose to breast feed - good for you
If you choose to bottle feed - good for you
But if you choose to be a breast feeding warrior and look at those who choose to bottle feed as scum then I hope you slip in dog shit tomorrow.

The amount of horrible women I've come across who are like this is too many now. And as I am heavily pregnant and have hormone rage it is really pissing me off.

Thank you for listening.

mini
The most effective prevention for type 2 diabetes, obesity, cardiovascular disease in adulthood is a healthy diet from weaning onwards. Benefits from bf (which are minimal in industrialised countries and for full term babies) are completely cancelled out if the diet that follows is bad. So why are you so passionate about the importance of bf? Wouldn't it be better if you channeled all that energy into promoting healthier diets for children and adults in the UK, because that will make a much bigger difference than six months of exclusive bf? I cannot help but think that women who bang on about how bf is so much better than formula only want to boost their own ego and feel better about their parenting. I just don't get how it can be so important to anyone that they need to repeat over and over again "bf is better than ff, it really is!"

At the end of the day, no one is handing out medals for either formula feeding or breastfeeding.

When your kid is starting primary school, no one will give a shit how they were fed as an infant, neither will they be able to tell.

If you want to breastfeed, excellent. Crack on and good luck to you.

If you don't, great. Crack on and good luck to you.

I don't understand why people have to be so evangelical about it and why anyone thinks they have the right to tell or guilt another woman about the choices they make about what they do with their own body.

If a man made some of the comments on this thread they would be flamed and rightly so. Women are awful to each other.

I don't understand why people have to be so evangelical about it

Because, if nobody did, there'ld be no breastfeeding services at all, and no maternity leave, and no option to work after babies in professions, and maternity services would still be in the dark ages.

I'm sick of the people who are working to improve things for women and children in general being painted as the bad guys here!

Tinsel There's a difference between supporting and promoting and being totalitarian in your approach. What people are criticising is the blinkered approach of some in the BF community. And it is some. It is extremely off putting to many mothers.

Admitting that BF is not ideal in some case and that women should feel less pressurised (to the detriment of their own mental health) is not an argument against BF. It is an argument against the all or nothing attitude of some in the BF community. BF can be promoted without demonising the alternative to the point where mothers are frightened to stop BF if it isn't working out. There is a more balanced approach to take.

Lunalovepud

So you think breastfeeding has no value?

I wish someone would give me a medal for bfing. It has been so bloody hard at times! Formula ensured my dd1 survived when I had lactation failure. I'm very grateful for it. Bf is going much better 2nd time around. I'm glad but there is so much more to parenting than how you feed. I'm bfing dd2 because I want to. I believe in the immediate health benefits- as in the baby is protected by the mums immunity to certain conditions. But, beyond that, I really do not think it makes a difference. Dd1 was formula fed when bfing failed. She is physically healthy due to the healthy diet she's fed now. She's the youngest in her year and top of her year group for literacy (dh is a teacher at her school which is how we know this.) I believe that is due to the fact that we have read to her since she was three weeks old and we are both teachers and that influences our parenting. I don't believe bf makes any real difference to intelligence and health long term. Love your kids. Ff or bf. It doesn't matter.

Oh hi Skerry - I was wondering when you would turn up again...

I have never said that breastfeeding has no value. Both BF and FF have value, in that they feed a nourish babies and keep them alive. I think we can all agree that keeping babies alive, healthy and happy and new mothers alive, healthy and happy is the important thing.

If you believe yourself to be a better mother than me, or other women who combined fed / formula fed and couldn't make BFing work, then I am fine with that. I think it says much more about you than it does about me.

Tinsel my concern is that with the current approach that some breastfeeding advocates take, they are alienating more women than they are helping. Women don't want to be lectured about what they should and shouldn't be doing with their own bodies - we get enough of that from society in general without getting it all stealthy from members of our own gender.

The percentage of mothers breastfeeding is low as I am sure you will agree. Maybe the approach needs to change on some level to help improve uptake and access? I am pregnant at the moment so I am a member of your target audience, surely? If a member of your target audience is telling you that they have felt alienated, looked down upon and not supported by the breastfeeding support services they had accessed and that they have found it really off putting for the future, is it not important to your cause to empathise at least?

And what NannyOggsKnickers said.

Lunalovepud

I hope you find some resolution for your bitter feelings.

Is this still going on?

Skerry I hope you find some resolution for your sanctimummy behaviour...

I'm not bitter - just don't have time for a woman who goes onto the thread of another woman, who has had a mastactomy and is upset and looking for support because she keeps being asked if she is breastfeeding by HCPs, only to give information about 'breast is best' and 'lactation failure is very rare'. Stay classy.

This is exactly the kind of evangelism that turns people off.

Amy I know, right? Just when I think it has ended, I get another email to say there has been a new post!

I know, I know... I am just making it worse.

I did breastfeed but god this is just silly. Aren't we supposed to support each other?
I agree with you Luna. Scientifically bf is best but it's not always practically the best choice for a new mother. I do think some breadtfeeders alienate other mums. I felt it myself so I stopped associating with them.

I'd be more concerned if the child wasn't being fed at all!

Bloody hell, this argument was going on when I first signed up to MN 9 years ago and here we are going at it again!

My first was FF because I didn't want to BF, he is happy and healthy.

My second was BF because I decided to give it a go, she is also happy and healthy.

It really doesn't matter, both sides will be judged for something and everyone feels that people are pushing their own agenda onto them but the fact is none of it matters as long as your baby is thriving. Although I will add that personally I received far more snotty comments and looks for BF than FF.

There's no disputing that there is evidence that BF has health benefits, whether you choose to believe or take them onboard is your decision. On the other side of the coin formula has no doubt saved many lives when mum's struggled to BF.

Time to move on IMHO!

So Lunalovepud , are you going to give up some of your time to provide the "right" kind of support? Or just attack those that do because you don't like how they're doing it?

Are you going to actually petition for the information and type of support that you feel is still lacking? contribute anything constructive?

Because that's what most breastfeeding supporters actually do, they're in it because they found services lacking and attempt to plug that hole for future mothers, if you find different things lacking, please, help provide that service?

Or just shite on about mummywars if you thing that's more constructive

"think"

Luna I feel the same as you wrt that previous thread. Made me feel sick. Lost all respect for certain posters after that incident.

Stay classy, I like that!

Tinsel, Luna has said she is pregnant... how are you promoting bf if I may ask? To me all I can see is a criticism for her opinion.

Some areas do have poor support. I found the bf community in my area stuck up and even though I was doing it right, my dd was gaining weight, happy and healthy; they still had to stick there two pence worth in and suggest a way I could do it better. I felt pushed and pressured, my way or the high way sort of thing. I stopped going to the cafes for bf and stayed at home and called my hv instead! These were supposed to be my support group, a group of my peers.

I'm pro choice. Everyone has the right to decide what they would like to do, whether it's scientifically better or not.

It's not even worth the arguments with anyone. Ladies will still ff more than bf whether you provide info or not because that is their choice!

Amy, same question to you then, if you don't like the volunteer cohort in your area, have you set up any alternative or volunteered yourself? or just criticised how the ones who are doing something are doing it?

Yes I'm a bf councillor I help ladies to feel supported when they're struggling

I don't push them and if they decided to formula feed then I support that too. I don't feel the need to tell them they have to carry on if they really can't. It's not good for the mental state of the mother or the health of the child either.

Hv put mothers in touch with me, especially mothers who have children with a tongue tie. I bf my dd for 11 1/2 months, she had a tongue tie and I struggled with my latch. My hv helped me more than anyone and suggested I become a councillor which I did. Went and took a short course on the way bf works etc.

I'm pregnant again now and plan to bf for as long as I possibly can

Okay fair play, but how do you actually support BFing if you take a neutral stance on it and don't suggest ways that people who think they can't BF actually could problem solve it? Because on threads like this, suggesting that there are ways around problems that a lot of people think are mutually exclusive with BFing and "made" them stop, is nasty and "unsupportive"

E.g. a woman in my group said she "had" to stop because she was only producing milk from one breast. Her child was growing fine and not unsettled, lots of nappies, but she was insistant that you can't nourish a child from just one breast. Biologically you can, and there were no other indications that her child needed any supplimentation, but she did and continues to tell lots of new and pregnant mums that she "had to" give formula because only one of her breasts worked.

I absolutely support her choice to not want to breastfeed any more, I have no issues with this, however, she has spread a lot of missinformation about "not being able to feed" to a lot of people I know.

She went to BF group for advice about weaning "because I"m not able to breastfeed". She didn't want to hear that she could actually continue to feed from just one breast, but was of course free to stop if she wanted to, she was very annoyed that this option was presented to her

So, do you A. not correct this missinformation that's being spread around the community (and the rest of the group who were listening)? or B. Give correct information to the community, which annoyed her because IMO she wanted "permission" to stop. I understand wanting to stop, but she wanted to hear that she "had" to stop so the decision wasn't on her, as it were.

The group would have supported her if she said "I'm fed up, I'm lobsided, I don't want to do it any more". But why should they support her insistance to spread misinformation?

First of all I suggest ways to make the feeding experience better. Suggest different feeding positions etc.
Some women worry they aren't producing enough milk. I look through the red book that has the weight centiles in, see if the baby is gaining adequate weight. If they are the mother is obviously producing enough milk so that is the fact I point out. Some are really not happy with that, I used to pump to check my milk supply so I also suggest that. I used to get something ridiculous like 9oz of each breast because my dd fed so much having the tongue tie and reflux which was a nightmare. I also had burst blood vessels behind my nipple and blood stained milk.

Obviously I cannot push anyone into something they don't want to do so if they still think they can't carry on then I support the weaning process. Assist with it.

Some ladies have taken the advice on board and continued and their babies have thrived as they should. Others didn't and I supported the weaning process and their babies also thrived the way they should.

Also I never tell ladies they can't continue. That is their opinion they think they can't. Some feel like complete failures and rather than saying 'I had to stop for my own sanity' it didn't work, not enough milk etc.

And to me it is self preservation rather than misinformation.

I supported one lady who had rheumatoid arthritis. She couldn't take her meds whilst feeding her baby, this then ended up leaving her bed bound. She really did have to stop to take her meds. She was devastated!
Also a lady with inverted nipple with a child who had a tongue tie. We tried everything, nipple shields to bring the nipple out, everything you could imagine but because of that and the babies lack of ability to latch her milk dried up. It didn't work, she felt like a failure too.

I don't think that making anyone feel worthless is the way to go about things. Most ladies give it their all and feel awful when they can't continue.

I don't see why you're not having a go at me too. Despite having a neutral unbiased view, I support mothers in the way they need it when they need it.

Or C- Take her to one side and have a heart to heart about what she wants and how things are going. Then say 'it's ok if you want to stop. But here's what you could try if you want to continue.'
Then she could be the one to go back to the group and correct her 'misinformation'.
Or was she just shamed in front of the entire group?
Also, offering support doesn't mean that you are always being helpful and should never be offered constructive criticism.

Amy You sound brilliant.