"Just accept that you're never going to sleep again!"

[Gennz]

If I had a dollar for the amount of times that this has been said to me with a gleeful expression I would be a millionaire. Does anyone else find it really annoying? (it's mainly the sleep thing that winds me up, but also they "you won't be able to shower for days/put the baby down/lose the last 5kg" blah blah blah..)

I'm 26 weeks pregnant, expecting our first child. Last night we had two of DH's friends over to watch the rugby - one has a 2.5 year old, one has a 9 month old. I said innocently to the father of the 2.5 year old "Does DD sleep through the night?" He responded with a meaningful laugh and said "oh no, she wakes up 2 - 3 times a night" and then "just accept that you'll never sleep again and it's not so hard." Whereupon the father of the 9 month old said "yes DW is up with DD at 11, 2 and 5am because she needs to be fed, you just get used to it." Then they harped on about "never sleeping again" and "how it's so much harder for the woman because she is the one who is up all night".

I am probably being an unreasonable b*itch - I know their hearts were in the right places. But I also know that their partners' approach to things is quite different to mine - I'm not taking my full maternity leave, having an ELCS, am v much in favour of putting a routine in place as early as possible, getting the baby to take a bottle; whereas I know they are more baby-led routine, go with the flow, natural birth. I'm not saying I'm right & they're wrong - just that I think our preferred approach will work better for my and DH's personalities.

I'm also not enough of an idiot to say out loud "well WE won't be doing that, I'm putting a routine in place, I need my sleep" having never had a child... I can only imagine how gleeful the reminders would be in 6 months when I haven't had a shower all day and the baby hasn't slept in days and I'm cursing the author of every routine based book ever published...

Anyway (this has turned into a far longer rant than I planned) - are any other first time parents else finding the "tips" from other parents slightly annoying/enraging? I guess my biggest bugbear is that, apart from responding "oh really? thanks for the heads up..." you can't really say anything (e.g "it won't be like that for me") without sounding like a delusional, pompous git and/or insulting the other person's parenting.

Ahhhhhhh good to get that off my chest...

It isn't glee. It's a case of 'make a joke of it, or sob'. It really is best not to ask this type of question as chit chat!

Ha! I must admit it hadn't occurred to me to think of it from the other angle. (self-centered or what!) Of course if your child isn't sleepign well at 2.5 you'd tell people if they asked you! I have had some fab friends who've been really reassuring about it so I shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

As I said, my main concern is that I may have to go back to work FT when the baby is about 4 months. This is my choice, as an opportunity has come up for a new, more senior role (I may yet not get it in which case I can relax a bit).

Would be really great to pick your brains for the best ways to cope, especially if the baby is not a good sleeper? DH will take some parental leave (will work a 3 day week for 3 months) and we will get a nanny for the other days (then going to more hours when DH returns to work). We have a cleaner so I'd maybe bump up her hours to include some laundry. The commute would only be a 10 minute drive so I wouldn't be wasting too much time with that. If neccesary I would get in a baby whisperer type person for a day or two when the baby is 12 weeks to help us address any issues before I go back to work (I know that things can change but I think I'd find an expert steer reassuring).

Any other tips on managing FT work with a new-ish baby? (I realise from reading the para above that I am very very lucky to have all these resources to help me, and I know many women cope with much mess support... I know I'm coming across as a bit of a neurotic spoilt nightmare, I swear I'm not!)

Your priorities might change once you've had the baby, so if you can put off the decision about your return until you've had it, then that might be best. I assumed that I would be going back full time after my first, hadn't even considered otherwise, then got to about 4 months and found myself absolutely sobbing at the thought (even though I had 12 months maternity) and put in a part time request shortly after.

It's not a return, it's a new job. I doubt my priorities will change though.

If you don't get sleep you will cope because you have absolutely no choice (severely autistic eldest son now in his teens - I really am in the - never sleep again category). There's no point planning for it, you can't.

There's no point planning what you will do & when & who you'll employ or how you'll cope until the baby is here. You have no idea how you'll feel or what your baby will need or respond to (I have 3 kids, they had 3 very different babyhoods because they're 3 very different children who responded to different things). My pre-birth job plans changed completely because when ds1 was 3 weeks old I realised they weren't going to work.

Forget what everyone else is doing or not doing & accept you'll find your own way that suits you & your baby once the baby has arrived & you have some idea of what works with them.

Noble this is second hand but a colleague of mine always cuts into "your priorities WILL change" with either "MAY change..." or "Yes, I want to be 100% mum at home and a role model at work".
In the wrong hands (not you, but you hear it a lot), the phrase can mean "you shouldn't want to work or you're less maternal". Which isn't true at all. Different families work in different ways ... and also if a mum had to work even if it wasn't her dream plan, suggesting her priorities are abnormal won't help.

Again this is anecdote but I see what my colleague means!

I did say might change!

People always used to tell me I wouldn't be able to have a hot cup of tea again.

That was bullshit!

I didn't find it as bad as people made out, I was prepared for full scale Armageddon and it really wasn't that bad.

And the really hectic bit usually is only about 6 weeks. Then things start settling down.

it is well worth lining up childcare though!

I can't help but have a little smile when the world and his wife coos at my little son and says "I bet you get no sleep with him!" and I calmly inform them that he's slept through since 8 weeks old. Every baby is different and you get SO tired of hearing the same old claptrap from people. Usually they mean well so I don't mind, but sometimes there seems to be a gleefully meanness to them telling me I will never sleep/eat hot food/have a tidy house/have sex (thanks for that one, nosey person in the supermarket!!) again.

My HV said that she would worry if the house was clean and tidy because it would mean I was doing that instead of looking after the baby. She was a brilliant common sense HV.

I found it quite easy to have a tidy house with a newborn. Toddlers, no way!

I always get a weird must clean thing, which I did when he was napping and I should have been napping as well.

my first mostly slept til about 4 months old
after that, no stopping him
first child plus good sleeper can mean first few months are easy

leaving him - now that was the hard part!

Well, to be fair, you did ask about the sleeping...

But anyway, I was told constantly that I would be tired. I thought I knew what tired was but you have no idea what it is until you experience a new born. After 17 hours of labour, I was left at the hospital so DP could get some sleep and my DD wouldn't stop crying and I couldn't get her to latch to feed. That was the first night in months of minimal sleep. We all have these great ideas of how their sleep pattern will be managed but all our LOs missed out on the memo. My DD would only sleep on me for months and then we perfected sleeping through the night until 6 months when she developed Separation Anxiety and woke every few hours again. Now at 7 months and we still haven't got back to a whole night.

Just a piece of advice from a relatively new mum. You will get the sleeping sorted and then something will happen. Be it a growth spurt or teething, something will ruin it at some point. So grab sleep whenever you baby is asleep. If this doesn't happen to you, I will be majorly jealous. I'm not trying to scare you, I promise. The first few months are so tiring but try to enjoy them.

I agree that unsolicited advice is very annoying.It unfortunately continues long after you give birth and you have to tune it out.We have had two horrendous sleepers,we had both in a routine and were not doing it all wrong (despite what I thought/was made to feel at the time) .We had friends who had a baby shortly before us she slept through from six weeks and they were totally convinced this was down to following Gina Ford and constantly gave us unsolicited advice on how we could be more like them and our child would sleep too.

Along comes baby number two for us both.Ours started out a good sleeper and got worse around 4 month mark,has been very up and down through developmental leaps but not quite as bad as first time. Their second has been horrendous since day 1,I never so much as raised an eyebrow even though my husband was desperate to ask them if they had 'tried a proper routine' and have since had an equally unsolicited apology from the mother saying she was so sorry they kept harping on at us about it as each baby clearly is very different.
Routine and being sensible in general obviously help,but theory is theory,your baby might have reflux,require less sleep than the average,be sensitive to lights,noise,bedclothes any number of things and it might not go to plan.
Just remember if yours does sleep that you are to a large extent also just lucky with that,and remember how the unsolicited advice felt if you feel the need to preach the gospel of Gina Ford to some poor mummy struggling with a non-sleeper.

As my DD nears puberty (she's ten now), I'm beginning to think that dealing with a baby is easier than reasoning with a pre-teen and I'm feeling very apprehensive that the future is about to get harder than ever.

On the subject of sleep, nap when your baby naps and try not to stress to much about tidying. Enjoy this time, it doesn't last forever.

Those sleep comments are soooo annoying and simply not true. It depends on the child. Both my girls were routine (not Gina to the letter but quite strict); No1 daughter ate well, slept through from 8 weeks and is a dream. No2 daughter, exact same approach and slept through from 5 months and much fussier eater. She needs less sleep generally and is REALLY strong willed. They are currently sleeping regularly to 8/8.30 at the moment from 8pm as it's school hols. They both do 11-12 hours a night unless unwell. (Current ages 6 & 3).
My pet peeve was the "are you having a natural birth? Oh we'll you don't want to hear my story...." And then tell me the worst possible things. WHY do people feel the news to scare you. My births were natural and fine. Hard work but 'enjoyable' because of the result and pride that you get at the end.
Enjoy your pregnancy and new addition to your family!
Ps, as for the "you'll never shower again" business, don't bother trying to keep a show home, enjoy the cuddles with your baby and just try and do a couple of jobs a day (one of which might be the shower!).
Also make your visitors make their own tea when they come and see the new baby!

The OP started a thread to moan about all the tips she is getting re babies and parenting, and almost every poster is replying "I know, it's dreadful, just do this XXXXXX"

It's human nature - we just can't help ourselves. :)

Thanks maizy

Don't worry I definitely won't be trying to keep a show home!! I may work like a demon in the offcie but I am a lazy cow at home

These are wise words forgetting Just remember if yours does sleep that you are to a large extent also just lucky with that,and remember how the unsolicited advice felt if you feel the need to preach the gospel of Gina Ford to some poor mummy struggling with a non-sleeper I'll remember that if I'm lucky enough to have a good sleeper.

Re Squitiza and noble's points re priorities (not getting at you noble, but it's something that's cropped up) - this is something I've really struggled with. The reason I might be changing jobs is because, despite working at a senior, executive level autonomously in my current job for 4 years, my (male, 60-something) boss is making my materntiy leave a real struggle. wasn't trying to do a Marissa Mayer or anything, but I was keen to do one part of my job (a part that is easily done remotely) one day a week. I live 10 minutes from my office, so could easily pop in if need be, and the affected parts of the business were keen to keep me on for that aspect of my job, which I'm acknowledged as very good at shamelessly blows own trumpet

Boss' responses: "It's such a special time"; "when you go on materntity leave you need to go for the whole time"; (when I noted I had childcare in place) "but childcare can't breastfeed" (as if it's any of his business); and "what if the baby's sick?" (when it was pointed out that the baby has two parents (not to mention 2 sets of supports GFs) he looked disbelieving, as if you can't expect your husband to help with a baby. I had always assumed that as I was good at my job and worked autonomously, I'd call the shots about how I managed my mat leave, but I've been completely undermined and cut out of the process. Accordingly I've realised that if just getting pregnant has this affect on my job, being a parent in this workplace is going to be even more challenging and so I'm talking to a few people about various opportunities which would start when the baby's about 4 months (and DH would take some parental leave, which I think in principle is a Good Thing).

I know my priorities will change, to a certain extent, as my baby is no doubt going to be the most important thing in my life (well, first equal with DH I hope, with the dog a close runner-up) but I also know that my career will remain important to me and I want to keep it on track - hence the sleep obsessing!! I hope that I can set an example to my son that women do work in senior jobs and perform them well, and that I can bring him up to be proud of me and my achievements and not be a fuckwitted dinosaur like my boss

Sorry, slightly off topic rant, but it might give you some context as to why this is such a hot topci for me!

That sounds tough Gennz. And of course you can be just as career orientated post-baby as pre-baby. Some people find that, if they are going to be out f-t, it makes them even more determined that it is for something fulfilling.

I think the reason it has come up on this thread is maybe that you seem to be planning for the unknowable. You don't know what type of personality your baby will have, or what type of sleeper he will be. You don't know how you will feel. You might find that being a parent kicks you into a higher gear of determination to succeed, or you may find it makes you want to wait it out for 12 months before looking at a job move. Having a baby is a bit like throwing everything in life up in the air - it could be that everything (career, immediate career plans, priorities, relationship, hobbies, body, etc, etc) falls exactly where it was before. But chances are some things will get blown about. It tends to be best to wait and see what those are rather than trying to plan for every variable.

You just don't know. I loved my job, was definitely going to go back, and then I just couldn't do it, not how I planned anyway.

In fact I did go back, but one day a week when dh could do childcare. Then ds1 became severely disabled and so work has to very much fit around him. TBH I find every bit of parenting a surprise. I assumed that once (NT) ds2 was at secondary I'd have bugger all to do, but during year 7 he needed more input and time from me than his younger brother. It's just constant surprises.

I've learned not to plan - or to put in place various support but know it might all change at short notice.

But if you don't sleep and have to work you'll cope. TBH with years and years of no sleep experience I only find it tricky when it gets below 4 hours. And that just needs organisation and an early night whenever you next can to catch up (I don't sleep in the day as I work, although I have occasionally fallen asleep on my keyboard when we've had a real no sleeping phase - luckily I run my own business). I can't sleep until late these days - leaves me feeling wiped out.

Yes Penguin what I have realised so far is that (a) I do want to work but (b) if I'm going to be a working mother, it needs to be at a job where I'm appreciated and recognised, not one where I'm flighting a losing battle to have my contributiion recognised and appropriately rewarded. If none of these current job opportunities take off, I'll bide my time and start looking in earnest early next year while on mat leave.

I'm totally trying to plan for the unknowable! My sister thinks I am mad (she's probably right).

Having battled with insomnia saintly I agree with you - I can cope on 4 5 hours (one of the few bonuses of pregnancy - early pregnancy at least - was the fantastic sleep! Falling asleep at 9pm and sleeping right through til 7.30a.m., amazing!). It was the prospect of having broken sleep all night for ages that freaked me out. I know this totally standard for the first 3 - 4 months, but hearing DH's mates talk about it as a given with their slightly older kids freaked me out.

If it happens though I'll just have to suck it up, I mean what's the alternative?!

I'm intrigued as to what issues the "baby whisperer type" will address in your baby. I'm guessing ensuring a full night's sleep for you before you go back to work?!(good luck with the four month sleep regression).
An example of how much your priorities do change is that you probably won't post that the baby and your dh are of equal importance in your life, once you've had him.

iggi, yes i thought that too

Well I've done it for 15 years and find it easier now (providing it doesn't drop below 4 hours) than I did when ds1 was a baby (although he was a pretty easy baby tbh). So if you do have extended broken nights it'll be fine

My best sleeper was ds3 - I put that down to the amby hammock (he was crap during the day though - would only sleep properly in a sling, otherwise it was 10-20 mins cat naps and I found that more annoying than broken nights in some ways),