"Just accept that you're never going to sleep again!"

[Gennz]

If I had a dollar for the amount of times that this has been said to me with a gleeful expression I would be a millionaire. Does anyone else find it really annoying? (it's mainly the sleep thing that winds me up, but also they "you won't be able to shower for days/put the baby down/lose the last 5kg" blah blah blah..)

I'm 26 weeks pregnant, expecting our first child. Last night we had two of DH's friends over to watch the rugby - one has a 2.5 year old, one has a 9 month old. I said innocently to the father of the 2.5 year old "Does DD sleep through the night?" He responded with a meaningful laugh and said "oh no, she wakes up 2 - 3 times a night" and then "just accept that you'll never sleep again and it's not so hard." Whereupon the father of the 9 month old said "yes DW is up with DD at 11, 2 and 5am because she needs to be fed, you just get used to it." Then they harped on about "never sleeping again" and "how it's so much harder for the woman because she is the one who is up all night".

I am probably being an unreasonable b*itch - I know their hearts were in the right places. But I also know that their partners' approach to things is quite different to mine - I'm not taking my full maternity leave, having an ELCS, am v much in favour of putting a routine in place as early as possible, getting the baby to take a bottle; whereas I know they are more baby-led routine, go with the flow, natural birth. I'm not saying I'm right & they're wrong - just that I think our preferred approach will work better for my and DH's personalities.

I'm also not enough of an idiot to say out loud "well WE won't be doing that, I'm putting a routine in place, I need my sleep" having never had a child... I can only imagine how gleeful the reminders would be in 6 months when I haven't had a shower all day and the baby hasn't slept in days and I'm cursing the author of every routine based book ever published...

Anyway (this has turned into a far longer rant than I planned) - are any other first time parents else finding the "tips" from other parents slightly annoying/enraging? I guess my biggest bugbear is that, apart from responding "oh really? thanks for the heads up..." you can't really say anything (e.g "it won't be like that for me") without sounding like a delusional, pompous git and/or insulting the other person's parenting.

Ahhhhhhh good to get that off my chest...

All those comments are bloody annoying. I slept, kept the house clean, showered, breastfed and even wore cloths and make up. The mid wife kept telling me I didn't have to get dressed.

Everyone is different as is every baby. Prepare for the worst, expect the best.

Ignore them, it's a load of rubbish.

I was told I'd not get any sleep, my tidy house would disappear and that I would change my mind re going back to work. Utter rubbish and presumably trotted out by those that ignore the housework or simply had no intention of working again.

I didn't go for the routine thing though as had friends who did it and would never do anything as they lived their lives according to it. They were very rigid and one says now she totally regrets it as lost a lot of friends over it as she didn't keep up the friendships as it interfered with it.

It's the personality of your baby that counts when it comes to introducing a routine, not the personality of you and your dh!
I agree the comments aren't helpful, but it can be a two-way thing - they may read your surprise at a two year old not sleeping all night as a comment on their parenting, especially if they know your plans for when your own lo appears.
Clumsy or not, these people might prove good sources of info for you when your turn comes, so don't stay too mad at them!

Be careful though, if you do get an easy baby who sleeps well, don't smugly talk about it to your friends as if it was your 'approach' that worked - implying that they were the authors of their own destruction. You might find it comes to bite you on the arse if you have a second. The words 'I'm lucky, she's such an easy baby' are the only appropriate ones if you want to avoid being killed by the sleep deprived

probably most of us thought like you before the baby was born
hence why people try to warn other newbies
they never believe it tho

There's no set rule. No right or wrong way. My DS was up every hour for an hour when he was newborn, I was so tired I had to stop breastfeeding but that didn't make him sleep anymore just meant sometimes I could pass a feed on to someone else whilst I rested.

I tried everything with DS and nothing worked, no routine worked or any sleep training. it's just DS. He is five now and will sometimes sleep through and other nights wake up four-five times just to ask me if im ok and then go back to sleep. You can't make a child sleep as someone else said it is down to their own personality.

However this doesn't mean you will never sleep. My friend has a baby who sleeps 9-9 and did so from about 3 months old.

I don't think they mean any harm, he is right that it will make it easier if you just accept it if you happen to have a child who doesn't sleep much. You can not plan these things.

Every parent has to accept that this will be the case in at least the first 2-3 months. You cannot let a newborn sleep through the night, they need night feeds. After that its ok to try and bring in a routine and see how it goes.

Your sleep "success" will have far more to do with your baby than your parenting style.

I'm 17+4 and since I got my bfp I have been up on average 5 times a night for a pee. So even if I go to bed at 9pm I often don't really feel like I've had much sleep because it's so disrupted. And that's not even starting on the nights I get woke up for other reasons too like dh snoring or cars etc. If I ever dare mention being tired in public I always get "it's natures way of preparing you to never sleep again" or "you think you're tired now, wait until baby arrives and then you'll know what tired is."

Thanks for that. Really f**king useful. As a baby I slept 12 hours a night from being a few months old. So yes I might have a baby that doesn't sleep well, but I might also have a baby that does sleep well. Either way unhelpful comments that basically say no matter how shit you feel now, it's only going to get worse, make me want to punch people in the face!!!

I know there is a real culture of cosleeping in some places, but I have to say in my circle of friends I know hardly anyone who planned to co-sleep etc. But most of them do or have done at some point, and almost all of them did it because they couldn't get routines to work and they were going mental with tiredness and weeping over copies of Gina Ford and wondering what they had done so wrong. Then the nights weren't ideal but at least everyone was in bed and not feeling guilty and worthless!

In an attempt to learn from their experiences, I decided to cosleep from day one (I didn't really realise this was a "thing" until I read mumsnet etc, I thought I was just being clever!) But baby started sleeping through the night at around 5 weeks so I just put her in a moses basket instead! She slept better than all my formula fed friend's babies initially and overall, though she has also been a pretty shit sleeper at times (5-7 months, 12-14 months, recently at 22 months just when I thought the bad sleep was over for good!)

I don't take credit for any of this. I really think it is far more down to the baby than anything else.

So I don't know if the friends you were talking to had the same plans as you, initially - maybe their approach to sleep is because the books didn't work for them. I don't think natural birth/ELCS should make much of a difference to sleep. The ff / bf relationship to sleeping is a bit complicated. It does seem anecdotally that ff babies sleep better but studies seem to show the opposite - or at least that the quality of bf mothers sleep is better? I slept very well whilst bf despite the disturbances, it was very soporific. But anecdotally it does seem to me, too, that mostly ff babies sleep better/longer.

I know a lot of 2 year olds and I'd say a third of them sleep reliably every night, a third never sleep very well, and a third are very variable. 2 years seems an impossible distance away when you have a newborn - I wouldn't even think about it, just remember to enjoy your baby and whatever works for you as a family is the "right" approach.

Mrsh (hello!) -

newborn sleep is miles better than pregnant sleep. at least you can bloody turn over! tell them to knob off!

None of the things people warned me about have been a problem for me, like 'never sleeping again' or 'taking two hours to get out of the house'.

It's the things they didn't warn me about - spending a whole day inside the house with a non-talking baby for company - that I did.

You never know what's going to be your particular issue or stress point as a parent.

As for routines, DD preferred one from a few weeks old. Not all babies will and you need to be led by them, but there's nothing wrong with trying if you want to.

I agree that some babies like routines.

Even if your LO is a poor sleeper (this may happen despite your routines) you will cope fine, even on little sleep. my dd is now 8.5m and goes through the night. but that wasn't the case at 4m when she regressed and woke every FORTY minutes. I kept going on adrenaline, coffee and cake, and she grew out of it.

It is annoying to hear those comments, but it's really worth just holding judgement on how you or your child will be with sleep. Sometimes you get a high needs baby, sometimes you get one that sleeps 8 hours from birth. In our case we got a good sleeper who turned into a bad sleeper, and then grew out of it. Go figure.

Not quite the same but I get really annoyed by all the people who have to ask about me being sick. "So have you been sick then?" "Been sick today? You look a bit pale". And they're not even people I'm particularly close to. Colleagues at school ask me -and sometimes not that far from the children's ears either!!!

yy I get sick of the "sleepless nights" remarks.

I am probably very literal but unless you have twins or a sick baby you DON'T get sleepless nights as a new parent. You get quite a few nights when you have significantly less sleep than you would have liked but describing them as "sleepless" to a parent-to-be is ridiculous.

OP if you had said to me when I was pregnant that none of my DCs would sleep through until they were about a year old I would have been horrified! However if you had added that when they did sleep through I felt sad, because I used to like the 4am breastfeeds, when it was just them and me awake, then putting the sleepy baby back to bed for another 3 hours or so and snuggling back to sleep myself, I would have been utterly bemused. Similarly, getting up to the baby in the middle of the night - OK you don't want your sleep disturbed but if the baby is crying you WANT to go to it, and being kept from attending to your distressed baby's needs would be torture.

People forget the emotional side when they are trying to scare new parents.

Gennz - I think your mistake was in thinking that 'Does DD sleep through the night" was a safe chit-chat sort of question.

Think about it for a moment. It's only a safe question if the answer is an airy "Oh yes, except if she's poorly" (or similar).

If the answer is no, it will be an emotive question. If you'd asked me this question when DD2 wasn't sleeping through (she was about 2 when she did), I would have felt:

• irritated and defensive on her behalf that my gorgeous child was being 'judged' about how well she slept;
• irritated and defensive on my own behalf that I was about to be judged as a parent;
• braced for a rash of stupid 'helpful' comments and advice about how to make her sleep and/or
• braced for over the top praise about how I was amazing to cope and they need their sleep.

Not saying that any of that is rational, but if you have an older child who doesn't sleep, talking about it gets old really, really fast. As does all the head tilting sympathy and well meaning advice. I am afraid that, although I wouldn't have been as rude as your friends, I would probably have given it short shrift too.

If you want safe questions, think about asking questions about the child's personality - things about what games she likes to play, whether she has a favourite teddy, etc. Do you ever go swimming - I'm looking forward to when bump is big enough to do that, etc, etc.

I also agree that baby sleep is a small amount you, and a big amount about the personality of the baby. I remember reading in Baby Whisperer to put them down sleepy but awake and literally scanning the index because I thought I had missed some vital information as, with all three of mine sleepy but awake= utter screaming fit. I thought I had missed some vital step.

I was told this, I just smiled and nodded and then changed the subject.

ds slept through from three months, I breast fed generally every three hours, did the EASY method without realising which is Eat Activity Sleep You. so would feed him then play or something then sleep and then time for me. didn't plan to do this but it just happened but I also didn't want to breast feed him to sleep.

everyone is different and every baby is different. best to just go with the flow and when they do wake in the night, just be calm and just think in the grand scheme of things this is a very short period in yours and the babies life.

"All those comments are bloody annoying. I slept, kept the house clean, showered, breastfed and even wore cloths and make up. The mid wife kept telling me I didn't have to get dressed."

Yes, I relate to this. Had a horrible instrumental birth with my first and was, quite frankly, traumatised for a while afterwards.

In the early days the only thing that kept me feeling sane was getting out and about where other people were - watching them live a nornal life that didn't revolve around babies.

My HV gave me a massive bollocking for going to Sainsbury's with DH in the week DC1 was born - I should have had it all delivered, apparently.

I hate the forced bedrest thing - sometimes it's the absolute worst thing for you post partum. If I laid around in bed I felt like I was having some kind of nervous breakdown. If I got up, showered, put on make up and walked the dog with the pram I felt like a human being.

Penguin is right, though, asking a parent of a 2.5 yo if their DC sleeps through is not safe territory.

" you can't really say anything (e.g "it won't be like that for me") without sounding like a delusional, pompous git and/or insulting the other person's parenting. "
Yes that's the issue, why it's so frustrating!

ah, sleep. The subject that is a hot - bed of discussion. I have to agree with Penguin- if you have a good sleeoer then obviously the subject is not going to be a tiresome one (scuse the pun! :) )
However, if your wee ones sleeping is leaving more to be desired...well, yeh the topic can get a tad emotive. On the flip side; I have gotten really bored by people going on and on about how wonderful their babies sleep. I soon learned some even exaggereated / emitted some parts / lied about their wee ones kip. Eg my mates son p8-8...well, actually he doesn't- he sleeps 8/9-5 and then she brings him into her bed with a bottle and he will eventually go back to sleep until 8. For me this is obviously not sleeping 8-8...but whatever, its all subjective and if the parents are happy to see things they way they do- then fine!

My dd has wonderful sleep for a few months - then it will go awry and the 5 am mornings come back- she also never napped as a newborn, I mean barely ever! we had a week of her sleeping 7-830 and napping 2 hours a day and I literally felt like a new woman! I seriously thought- no wonder some parents find parenthood so damn easy- if thry have sleepers like this all the time! For me, sleep is a big deal. :)

I think your mates were not being nasty - people generally aren't, but yeh- take note it can be an amotive subject - not that that means people should be deliberately terrifying you- but they may just be sharing their experience of how awful their kiddies sleep is. Some cope well with little sleep- many don't. I , unfortunately do not! gimme anthing over that! anything!

Actually, I have been thinking about this some more. I probably would have said almost exactly what your friend said. It would have been me trying to laugh off and diffuse a really awkward question. Make light of it and move on. It could well be that it was not directed at you in the way you interpreted. Unfortunately the dad of the baby joined in and they had a bit of a 'parents bonding over bad sleep' moment. Again, it probably wasn't about you or what would happen to you. It was about them most likely.

it wasn't the answer that annoyed me so much as the gleeful "just you wait!" tone in which it was delivered. I mean, I know the first year is probably going to be a mission, sleep wise, but I know that it's not unusual for 2.5 year olds to sleep most of the night? It didn't seem like an unreasonable or goady question to me (admittedly what do I know

I sort of hate to say this, because it is a horrid generalisation, but hey, it's my experience so I will say it anyway . . . you got this gleeful reaction from the men, who by their own admission are not up at night - their DPs are. So they can afford to be gleeful. Bet the mothers of babies who are up several times a night would've been more measured in their reaction.

Tbh, my DH would totally make these sorts of insensitive remarks (and he is generally lovely, and a great dad) because whilst he had some broken sleep he pretty much escaped the whole horror and so can joke about it. I can't, and I'd avoid scaring you!

Anyway, you'll be fine. You have realised already that the routine is to help you and your DP's personalities, not the baby you'll end up with. That's brilliant. I couldn't have got on with a strict routine, so I did what worked for me. And moaned about when it didn't work, sometimes. You'll do the same. And you've already accepted that it'll be a mission either way! So long as you go into it with an open mind, and know that sometimes you'll need to adapt to survive, life'll be grand. Enjoy!

PS I have forgotten all about broken sleep and I have 2, both currently 5 and under, who were rubbish sleepers for aaaaaaages. But now it's as if it never happened!

Also, YY to this from BalloonSlayer
OP if you had said to me when I was pregnant that none of my DCs would sleep through until they were about a year old I would have been horrified! However if you had added that when they did sleep through I felt sad, because I used to like the 4am breastfeeds, when it was just them and me awake, then putting the sleepy baby back to bed for another 3 hours or so and snuggling back to sleep myself, I would have been utterly bemused.

I wish getting them to sleep through the night was just an issue of getting a strict routine in place! DS1 was in a routine, self-settling, night weaned blah blah blah and slept through at 2.5.
DS2 similarly routine, self-settles, only has a dream feed at night... no signs of sleeping through yet!

I think the research indicates something like 50% of babies sleep 8 hours a night more often than not by 6 months, and 70% sleep 8 hours more often than not by 12 months. So it's unlikely to be true that you'll never sleep again, but even if you do everything "right" there are no guarantees.