Brie? Bubbly? Sushi? Help

[Gennz]

Hi everyone. I have just found out I'm expecting my first baby on 1 December. I'm a total over-planner and read a lot of books & medical studies on everything before we got the BFP, but with food I'm still quite confused ... the advice is all over the show.

I read Expecting Better which I found really helpful, and that, coupled with my own research means I'm comfortable with my usual one coffee a day (under 200mgs of caffeine) and 1- 2 units of alcohol a week in the first trimester (as a limit, not a target). I was a bit of a social smoker but I've knocked that on the head entirely.

The food thing, though, is really confusing me. No unpasturised cheese - well that's fine, all cheese where I am (NZ) is pasteurised. But then official information re soft pasteurised cheese (like brie, blue, camembert) is to only eat piping hot. Why?

I prefer my meat basically mooing in a paddock so well done meat will be a real struggle for me (but one I can live with if it's a real risk). But does the same apply to raw fish? I eat salmon sashimi at least twice a week from a good place, it's made fresh in front of us, been eating there for 4 years and never any problems. It seems like I can probably keep eating it? Some stuff says not to and some says it's fine.

I'm happy to go without various things if there's a good reason and a real risk but it seems like if I followed all the advice to the letter I'd be on dry crackers and not much else...

I don't think they are scaremongering - there is a risk due brie being mould ripened. You are more than likely not to harm your baby by eating brie and it is sensible to assess the risk (and ignore the advice if you like) but to say there is no risk is not factually correct.

BTW I ate brie during pregnancy and my kids are fine but I know that I did take a small risk. And IMO it is totally different the risk of being in a car accident as it is almost impossible for most people to avoid car travel altogether than go for 8 months without eating a bit of soft cheese

I am in Japan and can confirm that while there isn't much advice given, most people stop eating sushi. I also know several people who have experienced parasites from sushi and they can be nasty and treatment can be unpleasant. I didn't eat any when I was pregnant. There are a few other foods like seaweeds to eat in moderation, too, due to mercury and other toxins being concentrated.
Rice can be risky if not eaten straight away, especially if it has been reheated or kept at room temp. Bacteria creates a toxin that isnt eliminated by boiling.

The problem with the'why take the risk' argument is that you can apply it to pretty much anything and spend the whole pregnancy locked in your house. It only makes sense to avoid things if there is any evidence they could cause harm IMO.

I've only been pregnant properly for 2 weeks and it seems like women are patronised at every turn!

Get used to it Gennz - it doesn't stop once you have the baby either!

Actually, there was a recent study, last year I think, which showed a statistically significant drop of 1.8 IQ points at the age of 8 to children whose mothers drank even small amounts (1-6 units/week) in pregnancy. It was a decent study though as always limited by self-reporting, obviously not randomised or anything. You are correct that the majority of it is scaremongering though and FAS is not seen in children of anything other than heavy, regular drinkers.

However I have decided 1.8 IQ points is not worth my stressing about, also breastfeeding on a population level supposedly ups it 10 points, and I'm still bf at 18 months. So I have made my peace with my little glass of wine!!

Wish I could persuade myself bloody steak is ok but I'm still a bit twitch about that, and soft cheese - yes the risk so so very rare, but also so so very devastating. Also cheese is quite nice hot. I plan to bake a whole camembert soon...

I disagree on the driving thing - you might have to drive to work, but you could easily stop seeing your friends or doing drives for pleasure, you could shop on foot, you might have a walkable commute (my previous job was 5 mins in the car or 45 on foot.) It's only 9 months so why would you take the risk? Etc etc. What's easy for one person (I live city centre and could probably stop driving) isn't for another. Some people don't drink anyway and stopping altogether is no big deal, other people really appreciate a glass of wine occasionally. I think we can all assess our own risk and make some decisions, and depending on our lives they will vary. For example I think the outcomes from healthy eating and exercise and breastfeeding far outweigh an occasional drink, but that's only advice I give myself, not others.

^ I'm not trying to suggest anyone stops driving btw. Just highlighting how patronising the arguments can be.

What I find interesting is although I have clinical anxiety about pregnancy (based on losses which were explained by medicine and not down to random stuff and certainly not food, toiletries etc') and a list of 'what's safe' from a specialist high risk MW I sometimes think I'm less worried than people who trawl the web!

Because I'm super strict if it's on the list: but if it isn't, likewise I think "well my MW/doc would have mentioned it if it was forbidden."

It's awful how anxious the media make women feel. The majority of miscarriages and illnesses are sheer bad luck, or age related (in which case they'll screen you etc'). But to read the Daily Mail you'd think we're all doomed!!

Tsk tsk, Gennz, thinking for yourself? Critically assessing the risks and making an informed decision yourself? Using the brain you were born with instead of blindly accepting what you're told? While pregnant?!

Won't SOMEBODY think of the children??!!!

locked in your house
Ah, but your house could have lead pipes, kitty litter, new furniture, old furniture, shower gel, a non-industrial freezer, children with bugs, trip hazards and cleaning products in it...

Some risks they are just not sure about, such as drinking. Some studies say a glass a week is fine, others say it raises the chance of premature birth. When you're being careful about these risks, it won't impact on your life at all. It definitely doesn't mean you're 'locking yourself in the house'. Sure, it's an individual choice, but people generally have trouble assessing indirect risks like that. The chances may be very small, but if it's easily avoided why take the chance at all?

We all take easily avoidable risks every day, we just vary as to which ones.

This is about two things - number one is optimum nutrition.
It is number two that you have queried here I think - risk.
The risk to be assessed is about food poisoning as this can be serious during pregnancy. Any raw meat is high-risk obviously so these lists are to draw your attention to the risk you take should you decide to eat these things during pregnancy. It is your choice and frankly your child will be affected by your attitude to risk for a lifetime anyway.
As long as you are aware of this you will not have to live with the 'if only I had known' type of regret which is soul destroying.
My brain told me what to do in no uncertain terms - on day 6 (implantation) I woke up to a terrible smell which turned out to be fresh filter coffee! My DH had to brew it in the Nissen hut for the duration. I love it again now! Instead of my fave wine and single malt DH concocted tonic with angostura bitters as a dry non-alcoholic evening beverage. It was fun and was only for a short time.

Sushi is fine so long as it has been frozen first.

Rare steak is fine, so long as it has been very well seared on the outside, as that's where any bacteria are. Rare burgers are not okay because the meat has been minced and so the bacteria are mixed throughout. I think if cheese has been pasteurized it should be fine.

Alcohol I think 1-2 units once or twice a week as a limit is fine too. I had half a beer or a glass of prosecco every week or two when I was pregnant. I also discovered some nice alco-free beer/cider though when I really wanted a drink, like on a night out or at a party, so I didn't have to drink water all night. (I don't really like fizzy drinks or juice that much.) Alco-free Schneiderweisse is really nice, you barely notice it isn't a 'real' Weissbier and I found some lovely alco-free ciders as well.

I think it sounds like you have it basically sorted. Common sense I think is the main thing.

Oh and I would defs avoid soft-serve ice-cream from an ice-cream van!

weebairn my problem with that study is that there is quite a big difference between 1 and 6 units. That is a variation of one single G&T a week to 6 a week. Or half a pint of normal strength lager to 3 pints. That's a fairly big variation.

frankly your child will be affected by your attitude to risk for a lifetime anyway.

this is true, and being too risk-averse is a disaster too - overprotected children who never get to go out & play rough etc

Basically you will question yourself for a lifetime now. Try and stress as little as possible about it. I agree with the common sense thing. :)

mopsytop Yes there are problems with that study. I acknowledge they found a statistical significance, but there are problems with the self-reporting, the range of drinking, and also I don't think 1.8 IQ points is significant to a child's life. Hence I am still drinking around a couple of units a week (it was less in the early weeks, but I was sick as a dog then anyway)

tonic with angostura bitters is really nice, my mate made that for me the other day when everyone else was having gin & tonics

Also holland and barretts do a very punchy ginger spirit thing that you can sort of pretend is whisky. and a non-alcoholic mulled wine. Lots of decent nonalcoholic beers around, though I go off beer when pregnant (maybe will fancy it in the summer though)

I treat myself to posh lemonade and nice tea.

weebairn I definitely found it easier for me to have the occasional unit or two of alcohol rather than a blanket ban as that just annoyed me! I find the patronising tone of many of the advice books really irritating. I am a grown woman, I am an academic and spend much of my professional life carrying out research. I think I can assess the risks given the relevant information for myself. I don't appreciate the hectoring tone of the books! That said, I appreciate that NHS guidelines, for example, have to be as risk averse as possible. But still, pregnant or once you've had your baby, the amount of 'advice' you get, often from random strangers, is SO annoying. I went for lunch with a friend recently and the lady serving in the café was hesitating about 'allowing' her to order brie on her bagel because she was pregnant. Like WTF?!!!

As long as you are aware of this you will not have to live with the 'if only I had known' type of regret which is soul destroying.

The problem is it's equally soul destroying to have this needlessly. The media loves to present risk - moral panic sells, and reckless pregnant women are super for moral panic.

The aftermath is heart rending. Over the last 2 years, for example, I've seen "Did my 1 cup of coffee a day cause my MC?" (NO), "Did exercise cause my MC?" (NO), "Did my cutlery cause my child's birth defect (it has plastic on it)? (NO). These women are going through a fake form of 'if only I'd known' caused by whatever was in the Daily Fail that morning.

Mopsy I know ice cream vans are filthy but love ice cream. I get my fix from McDonalds and cafes with clearly labelled 5* hygiene ratings! can't go near the vans anyway, the diesel fuel stinks!

But still, pregnant or once you've had your baby, the amount of 'advice' you get, often from random strangers, is SO annoying.

My most offensive: "coffee... after all your losses, is that wise?" Then she got as if I wasn't grateful enough to be preggers and locking myself away! All I did was calmly say the NHS says 1 small cup a day is OK.

:( squizita. It's hard to believe how tactless people can be.

Hope you are really enjoying this pregnancy. Has the anxiety subsided at all? I've had nothing like your experience, but I found once you have a bump and kicks everything feels much better :)

It is so annoying isn't it? That was really f-ing insensitive. How can people be so insensitive? Or people touching your bump without your permission. Like total strangers! I find it mind-boggling that people think it is okay. Or like you are racing home as your child is bawling and someone says 'oh they're hungry, they need their lunch'. Oh thanks very much, like I can't figure out my child's needs for myself!

weebairn I love my tea too. I have found this amazing tea company: www.purefreshtea.com/

I normally am not a huge fan of herbal tea, but their rosehip tea is AMAZING!

And Twinings camomile and honey is another new fave.

It makes me quite sad that there's someone training to be a medical professional on this thread who is linking 1-2 units of alcohol a week with FAS. Shame on you. There's zero evidence to back up such small quantities.

Not sure if this has been explained OP but 'sushi grade' is a term used for fish (at least in the UK, you may want to check NZ is the same) that is not only of a certain quality but that has been previously frozen and all establishments that serve any raw fish are obliged to use sushi grade.

Also, as a PP has mentioned, the term 'sushi' refers to the rice, not the fish. There's plenty of sushi you can have that has no raw fish at all if you'd be more comfortable staying away from it.

Wee yep I'm having a good week apart from wishing to have a bump as it would feel real

I've gone SO off raw fish texture (and even cooked shellfish texture) that a trip to a Japanese place is ALL about the udon noodles for me at the moment!