Brie? Bubbly? Sushi? Help

[Gennz]

Hi everyone. I have just found out I'm expecting my first baby on 1 December. I'm a total over-planner and read a lot of books & medical studies on everything before we got the BFP, but with food I'm still quite confused ... the advice is all over the show.

I read Expecting Better which I found really helpful, and that, coupled with my own research means I'm comfortable with my usual one coffee a day (under 200mgs of caffeine) and 1- 2 units of alcohol a week in the first trimester (as a limit, not a target). I was a bit of a social smoker but I've knocked that on the head entirely.

The food thing, though, is really confusing me. No unpasturised cheese - well that's fine, all cheese where I am (NZ) is pasteurised. But then official information re soft pasteurised cheese (like brie, blue, camembert) is to only eat piping hot. Why?

I prefer my meat basically mooing in a paddock so well done meat will be a real struggle for me (but one I can live with if it's a real risk). But does the same apply to raw fish? I eat salmon sashimi at least twice a week from a good place, it's made fresh in front of us, been eating there for 4 years and never any problems. It seems like I can probably keep eating it? Some stuff says not to and some says it's fine.

I'm happy to go without various things if there's a good reason and a real risk but it seems like if I followed all the advice to the letter I'd be on dry crackers and not much else...

The evidence on alcohol in the 1st trimester is slightly more negative than for the rest of pregnancy - even sticking to the 2 unit limit can slightly increase the risk of premature birth for example.

Personally I was careful about things like listeria (soft cheese, pate) as ultimately the worst case scenario is stillbirth. Just food poisoning/salmonella - I was no more or less careful than usual.

Thanks everyone, it's really interesting to see how everyone has a slightly different approach. Re alcohol, I'm not going to go out of my way to have a drink but I might have one if I'm out for dinner or something. I gather if you keep it to one or two small glasses drunk slowly with food it shouldn't pass to t the foetus at all, let alone cause FAS. To be honest, I've always drunk a lot socially and it's been quite nice having an excuse not to! Getting loads of sleep and doing lots of exercise, who knew!

Dontevenblink I'm in Auckland. Hope you're okay in Chch and not too flood affected! It's still so nice and warm here, I am dreading winter!

Pomme that really sucks about the cranberry/brie tjing, it's such a good combo! Can you cut off the rind? (Is that a really stupid question? )

NHS says you can have smoked salmon throughout as the smoking kills the parasites. However nhs also advises pregnant women to have oily fish only twice a week (apart from canned tuna) so smoked salmon would fall into that. I am 6 weeks today and have the nhs page permanently up on my phone! Going to be hard to avoid runny eggs though and might treat myself a few times over the next 7months...

OP what does expecting better say about caffeiene out of interest?

Am I the only one who first thought this was a baby name thread from the title

With cheese, it's not so much about the pasteurisation, more about how attractive an environment it is for listeria. So Parmesan isn't pasteurised but isn't a problem as it's a hard cheese and listeria wouldn't thrive there. But pasteurisation doesn't mean nasties could never appear, and softer cheeses are a good environment for them to grow

first of all congratulations!!! :) I am 9 weeks off my due date with my first and have to say I avoided most things on the list for the first trimester. however I got to christmas and was sick of not being able to eat things I really liked so changed things up a bit.

I still avoid blue cheese but found that asda (in the uk) makes a pasturised brie so sometimes I treat myself to some of that and I eat prawns etc too provided they are cooked all the way through. I have an occasional tea or coffee but otherwise drink water.

I spoke to my mum about it - she had 4 of us and worked in healthcare and she basically said that its a personal choice and to only venture as far as you are comfortable with. If you are happy in the knowledge that your sushi/sashimi is ok then go ahead with it. As for the cheese, i love cheese but have stuck to things like cheddar ( usually very mature ones) and am looking forward to having blue when Ive had the baby. I hope you find a happy medium in relation to food throughout your pregnancy :)

Haha dandelions! I do actually know someone called Brie ...

Hey Gennz, and congratulations! :)
It's all a minefield isn't it.

I have a small drink here or there, I eat runny eggs, I eat raw fish/sushi

I don't eat unpasterised cheese (though I have cooked a piece of goats cheese in a pan in desperation lol), I don't eat liver, I did eat some rare steak and then felt bad so won't again.

I go with the philosophy that someone said above - I avoid things that are risky to baby/infectious, but I am no more careful about food poisoning than usual.

I also have cats, but DP usually cleans them out anyway.

I guess it's all about how you assess risk and we all do a bit differently. You're much more likely to be in a car accident than get listeriosis, but no one stops driving when they're pregnant.

Generally I am a bit more relaxed than preg no. 1.

I also try and eat healthy/no junk. And that's also cause my toddler copies me. But it's good for the pregnancy too. And I exercise where I can. I think sometimes we get too caught up what we shouldn't do, and don't concentrate enough on what we should.

I hope you are feeling well? And the dreaded sickness hasn't caught you (yet) (hopefully it won't at all!)

I think in general the things you should avoid are the things that 'might' give you food poisoning which is always going to be fairly unlikely but best to not take the risk. I still have the odd runny egg but make sure the white is fully cooked and the eggs are lion stamped. As far as sushi goes, just ask the place you go whether they freeze it first (if they do it's ok). I love sushi and often go to Yo! Sushi here in the UK when I'm away on business. I looked on their website and they said they don't freeze the salmon first so pregnant woman should avoid that but other fish is ok. I'm also a caffeine addict but have given up on coffee and just limit myself to 3 cups of tea a day. It's tough but worth it! x

the expecting better book seemed pretty good, though there was the odd area where her info seems to be faintly wobbly eg over the nipple stimulation near to term (someone here set me right that its best avoided if you're high-risk preg) and i vaguely remember her comments on hyperemsis gravidarum could have been better researched, but I'd have to double-check that.

the point that many people seem to forget is that you can be careful eating and drinking but that there is a higher risk from taking the CVS or amnio tests. Also that gardening can give a higher risk of toxoplasmosis than changing the cat litter tray of an older cat (not young cat).

honestly, so hard knowing what´s safe and not, and so many people go waaaay OTT telling preg women what to do or not do !

Oh yeah I've switched to decaf coffee, but not strictly, just mostly or if it's easy to ask for. Too much coffee makes me a bit twitchy anyway. Tea I still drink normally.

Meerka I totally agree people love to tell pregnant women what to do and get all judgey about it. Fuck off! I am an adult and can make my own decisions.

How much tea dyou drink a day weebairn?

I have 2 cups with breakfast, leaf tea, one of my great pleasures in life...

I think leaf tea is actually less caffeine (not sure why)

I don't like coke/chocolate so I think that's all my caffeine for the day. I sometimes have a decaf black coffee with lunch

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/059306996X?pc_redir=1395598744&robot_redir=1

I thoroughly recommend the above book which explains the reasoning behind all these "banned" foods, and gives you the science to help you make up your own mind. I found it really helpful.

Weebairn you are a woman after my own heart! I agree - the listeria/toxo risks I take seriously but the food poisoning stuff I'm not more worried about than usual (by which I mean, obviously I always try to avoid getting food poisoning!)

Someone asked up thread what the Expecting Better advice was re caffeine: she said two cups of coffee was fine and up to 3 or 4 most likely fine to (which is what she personally drank). She also cited official advice (I think from the UK said try to limit to under 200mgs of caffeine).

I wasn't sure if the 3-4 cups was American drip filter coffee or espresso but I am an espresso drinker (either double shot flat white or long black, both of which are about 150mg of caffeine) so I'm limiting myself to one of those a day which isn't really a hardship for me. I'm only 4+1 so if MS kicks in I may not even want that!

That book looks great Jenny, will add it to the overflowing pile on my bedside table! Not sure what I'm going to do when the baby arrives and it doesn't follow the rules in the books

I found a fantastic little book "What to Eat When You're Pregnant" by Dr Rana Conway, (www.pearson-books.com) which was just what I needed to stop my pregnancy food anxiety in its tracks.

Some great concise chapters on food/drinks to avoid, nutrients to aim for etc, but the section I found most useful was an alphabetical list of foods for a quick check if they were OK or not - so looking up Brie (or Roquefort or Parmesan, or Port Salut etc ...) was a breeze.

Don't know whether amazon ships to NZ (or if there's a NZ equivalent) but the page below has the 'look inside' feature so you can see the table of contents etc.

www.amazon.co.uk/What-Eat-When-Youre-Pregnant/dp/0273762540

Incidentally, on sushi, it says its fine as long as its been frozen beforehand (to -20 degrees for at least 24 hours) which would kill off any tiny worms in the fish (nice). So it suggests that if a restaurant is preparing it from fresh you ought to avoid it, but if they're using previously frozen ingredients (or buying in ready-made frozen) that's OK. Personally I'd skip the sushi rather than worrying about exactly how its been prepared, but that's just me.

All the best with your pregnancy

I asked my Japanese hairdresser what they do in Japan about sushi, expecting him to give me plenty of reassurance about eating it. But no, even in Japan pregnant women stop eating it : ( that was the confirmation I needed to put it on hold for the pregnancy.

sleepy I think in Japan pregnant women tend to be more cautious than here in the uk.

It's quite easy to avoid eating some things, such as sushi or cheese with rind and also drinking alcohol, for 9 months. It wont reduce your well-being, but you can take some of the risks to your baby away. Even though the risks are very small, I think it's better to just avoid them if you can. The list of what not to eat and drink is minute compared to what you can eat and drink!

Blamber I am happy to avoid eating things or undertaking some activities where there is a real risk to my child, but I do object to blanket bans where there isn't a real risk. I've only been pregnant properly for 2 weeks and it seems like women are patronised at every turn! I've spent 10 years working in a careers where I need to use my critical faculties so I find this quite a difficult habit to switch off.

For example I think research has proven that 5 drinks in a sitting creates a risk of real harm. I'm yet to come across any sound argument or medical studies for any risk associated with one drink with dinner. In fact many studies suggest that children of light drinkers (1-2 a week) have better outcomes than those of non-drinkers, but i suspect this is not to do with the drinking but mroe to do with socio-economic factors.

I had no idea what the problem with mould ripened cheese was, which is why I asked. Even then it seems to me the risk is pretty minute but I'm not desparate to eat brie so I probably just won't.

I don't know why I'm obsessing about brie, but I've just looked up the most recent food safety reports and as far as I can tell there has never been a listeriosis outbreak in NZ attributable to any pasteurised cheese, let alone brie, let alone any perinatal death or injury attributable to consumption of soft pasturised cheese. The biggest risks seems to be dodgy soft serve ice creams from trucks and meat.

I find it really hard to believe that a commercially prepared pasturised brie bought from a mainstream supermarket would carry any listerosis risk ...

Sorry to crap on about it but it seems like when you scratch the surface of some of these recommendations they're just scare-mongering.