Glass of wine on Chrismas day.

[LucyB1]

Hi, I'm going to be 12+5 on Christmas day and i am absolutely GAGGING for a glass of red. Is that really bad cause I'm not quite out of the first trimester??

If my opinion was that driving without a seatbelt is fine, my opinion would be wrong. I'm entitled to have it and to choose to follow it, but it is still wrong.

Your opinion is that any alcohol at all in pregnancy is to be avoided but a little bit of pâté is ok. Factually that is incorrect and illogical, and therefore your opinion is wrong. You're entitled to believe it, but that doesn't magically make it correct because the facts it is based on are wrong.

Again if that's what you think and believe them cool. Have a nice day!

Ok - I'm not going to start all over again but had to just point this out.

If you are going to challenge statements made by those who think pregnant women should abstain from alcohol, inaccuracies by those who think a small amount of alcohol is OK also need to be challenged.

SimLondon says "For FAS you would have to be drinking at least two bottles of wine a night every night," This isn't true.
Susan Astley professor of Epidemiology and Pediatrics at the University of Ashington and director of the Washington State FAS Diagnostic & Prevention Network of clinics says " 1 out of every 14 children we have diagnosed with full blown FAS over the past 20 years had a reported exposure of just 1 drink per day. In fact, one of these children was reported to have been exposed to just 1 beer per day for the first 4 months. While it is true that the majority of children born with FAS were exposed to higher levels of alcohol, some (like this child) were exposed to just 1 drink a day."
Full article depts.washington.edu/fasdpn/pdfs/astley-oster.pdf
Of course these are "reported" consumptions and may have be higher but also may not - we can't know for sure and certainly way lower than 2 bottles of wine a night!

This link seems interesting also - talking about the different effects the same amount of alcohol may have dependent on genetic make-up here

I am not pregnant. I don't drink much but enjoy the odd glass of wine or two over Christmas. I have struggled with external ear infections since October and now have a perforated ear drum (ouchy) and have started a cold. I went to the ENT clinic yesterday and they have prescribed me with ear drops but also a 10 day course of oral antibiotics. Guess who won't be drinking over Christmas now!!

I thought that regular light drinking was actually a greater fas risk than heavier 'one off' binges?

Define "regular". Define "light". One woman's glass of champagne at Xmas and weddings is another's two 250ml 13% Chardonnays a day.

That one beer a day in arti's post could have been a pint of Tennants Super or it could have been a half of bud.

That's the trouble - we do have a very distorted and varied idea of what "light drinking" is in this country. When not pregnant i drink on or under the NHS recommended limit of around 14 units per week. In my social and work circle that is considered verging on teetotal. I think it's verging on too much.

I agree with arti on the 2 bottles of wine though. That's not just going to damage your baby, it's probably going to kill you very soon.

arti the problem is that (as HCPs well know) just about everyone downplays their alcohol intake when asked about it. So it's unlikely that those babies (only 1 in 14 in any case?) really did get FAS from only one a day. Even if they did, one drink a day would equal anything from 7-21 units a week, depending on the size of the drinks. That's over the quantities deemed " safe" in pregnancy anyway, and over the amount that anyone is talking about on this thread. So it doesn't prove that one drink on Christmas Day is harmful, at all.

Yes, I agree arti. Even when I say I don't abstain completely, I am talking 1-2 units, generally about once a fortnight. I might have 1-2 units twice over the Christmas period. I am under no illusions that drinking at high levels could be dangerous in pregnancy long before it is a problem to others. And two bottles of wine is liver wrecking levels for anyone.

*Olives' risk analysis does remain wrong. If you have been tee total throughout pregnancy and intend to remain so, there is no current evidence that choosing to have a single glass of wine (so 1-2 units once in a pregnancy) is any risk whatsoever. In fact, if faced with the choice of accepting the glass of champagne before lunch or the chicken liver pate starter (assuming you don't consume either at other times), it's a pretty clear choice in terms of risk analysis. Because pate is a binary risk - if it has listeria, there is the risk of harm to the baby even if you only had a taste. Whereas alcohol damage is dose dependent : high doses will almost certainly cause harm, one sip of someone's champagne will not. Nor for that matter will a one-off single glass.

educatingarti unless you're on Metronidazole which is unlikely for an ear infection you can drink on antibiotics

I felt the alcohol was a bigger risk than the half teaspoon of pate I had on two occasions

What has gone wrong when people don't get that a minuscule amount of something contaminated with listeria is more dangerous than a glass of wine (and not even a small one) here and there?

There's a moral thing going on here, for sure.

Chunderella , this is the thing, isn't it? It's not about me being 'dense' (what a nice woman you sound btw). It's about the fact that we just don't know the research or the full impact. Even doctors are torn on it. So don't try and make me out to be some how intellectually challenged, my dear. I stand by what I said. For me my child's safety is paramount. What you chose to do is entirely your choice but this is a public forum where op asked for opinions. This is mine. Like it or not.

I don't think the alcohol vs pâté argument is particularly helpful. It's about different types of risk.

The risk from listeria in pâté is like drawing straws. If you draw the short straw, catastrophe. But there are lots and lots and lots of long straws and very very few short straws. Everything you eat has a chance of you drawing the short straw - it's just that pâté has a few more short straws in the mix than most things.

Whereas alcohol is like turning a dial. Imagine you're at a party at a friends house with lots of noise, people chatting, clinking glasses, moving around. You decide to turn on their old stereo - turning the volume dial up from zero. Turning it up just one or two notches you can't hear anything. You don't know whether it's not making any noise at all, or you just can't hear it because of all the other noise in the room. If you keep on turning the dial up, maybe you'd start to hear something faintly and if you crank the dial right up eventually it'd drown out all the other noise in the room.

Plateofcrumbs, I think that's a very elegant explanation. We're generally not very good (as a species!) at understanding risk, and it doesn't help when it gets mixed up with moral outrage.

Haha so sad when people can't voice their opinions without using vile language. Yet you question my intelligence?! What an utter delight you sound. I won't be bothering to check up on this particular thread again. It is abundantly clear the sort of people who think drinking while pregnant is acceptable (ie the kind who use profanities when they are so much as challenged by another) . God bless. Have a lovely Christmas Chundy x

Exactly what I was thinking Stick, he/she sounds very bitter and pissy!

And again Chunderella, if that's what you think then cooooooooool beanio! Have a lovely Xmas

"The sort of people who think drinking when pregnant is acceptable"... Wow. Judgemental, much?

stick way to go, lumping off of us who have decided to drink during pregnant (at what ever level we feel comfortable at) as those sort of people. I'm afraid if you actually read most of this thred a good proportion of us didn't judge other, use profanities or pick fights.

Not excusing those who you may feel have crossed the line, but IMHO your reaction is quite intolerant and not eflext

Each to their own what ever they chose

stick way to go, lumping off of us who have decided to drink during pregnant (at what ever level we feel comfortable at) as those sort of people. I'm afraid if you actually read most of this thred a good proportion of us didn't judge other, use profanities or pick fights.

Not excusing those who you may feel have crossed the line, but IMHO your reaction is quite intolerant and not reflecting just your opionion.

Each to their own whatever they chose.

I think that extrapolating that all people who approve of the odd drink during pregnancy also swear because one person who holds that view swears really tells us all we need to know about this person's approach to statistical analysis...as also evidenced by their failure to grasp the evidence that exists regarding drinking and pregnancy.

Equally, eschewing all alcohol but eating pate (even in tiny quantities) demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the risks involved in either.

well, indeed, some of the people on this thread are the kinds of people who look at the evidence, hopefully on both sides, before coming down with blanket statements.

UCL study prublsiged this year, which suggests that not only in light drinking not linked to developmental problems, boys born to light drinkers have fewer behavioural problems.

Sorry - meant to post this days ago..!

Wow - 'published'!? No alcohol consumed, honest!

Hi all, just wondered who succumbed to a glass of anything today? I have been reading this thread with interest. Im 17 wks. For the first time (and only time) in this pregnancy i had a few glasses of fizz with my christmas dinner.... I enjoyed it! But wont be repeating this again in my pregnancy. I am now berating myself horribly. Just wondered what everyone else had decided to do xxx