Scan: choroid plexus cysts, echogenic focus abdominal wall

[Arabica]

Just had 20 wk scan. Apparently the brain cysts aren't anything worrying but if there are certain other symptoms can be an indicator of Edwardes syndrome (I researched that, not what told me at hospital). Sonographer also found a white area in the abdominal wall and said she didn't know what it was, however all the major organs seemed ok (although they couldn't do the heart assessment cos of where the baby was lying). I have appt in fetal medicine dept for further scan but wondered if anyone had similar results from an anomaly scan?

Hi Arabica,

I had a scan done last year and they found choroid plexus cysts and and echogenic bowel which the consultant said were soft markers for Downs....I worried myself sick over it of course and was talked into an amnio. The results came back clear and when I went back for a repeat scan there was no sign of either of these markers. The consultant said to me that they are obliged to point them out but really they do cause an awful lot of unnecessary worry. I'm sure all will be fine.

Hi arabica, my dd had CPCs, echogenic something at her 13 week scan and she was small-for-dates. Doctor murmured something about Trisomy 18. Had a scan booked in the next day with Harris Birthright, Kings College Hospital, which confirmed the results. Had a CVS done on the same day, which eliminated the major chromosomal defects. But I had never been more frightened and out of control those few days and waiting for the results than I had even been.

I was offered regular scans thereafter. At 16 weeks and thereafter, dd's scan showed heart defects, short femur (she was always small-for-dates anyway), single umbilical cord. Were it not for the clear CVS, I would have doctors jumping on me from on high with doomsday scenarios. In the end, dd only had a big hole-in-her-heart. But the worry and stress of the scans ...

Most garden variety sonographers are not very well trained IMO. If you can somehow manage, don't panic. Just go for the fetal medicine dept scan - where they should know what they are seeing and can give you something more definitive.

Remember, scans pick up a lot of dodgy "soft markers" which in the majority of cases are actually perfectly fine. Do you have a stance on an amnio? I found that I was just expected to go for my CVS, just as wools was pressured into an amnio. In hindsight, it was the right thing and saved a lot of future worry, but I did not make an informed decision at the time.

Hi Arabica, have responded to you on the other thread - hadn't seen this one - sorry.

Thanks for sharing your experiences--the more I read about these soft markers, the more unreliable they sound! I am reassured that all the organs looked OK to the sonographer, incl. gastrointestinal tract, so this white bit is to do with the abdominal wall rather than the bowel. I'd have to think v carefully re amniocentesis if this was offered, I didn't want to do either amnio or CVS earlier because of the m/c risk and the hospital didn't appear too concerned, despite my age.

oh poor you....
i am so sorry you have this to think about.
i agree with the other comments about sonography..they pick up all sorts one day and then the next time it is normal
it sounds silly to say for you not to worry too much
i hope nyou get a quick appt with the fetal med unit....

you looked so well and happy the other day, i am so sorry
i am sure it will be fine- these scares are just part of the territory imo, modern medicine is great, but it makes us worry so much too.
deep breath!
thinking of you xx

The main problem with soft markers is that they occur in a large percentage of babies - most of whom are perfectly fine. When I had my scan last year, I did a lot of reading about it and came across a very interesting article on the net from an American doctor who really believed it was better not to tell parents because of the unnecessary anxiety it would cause. The majority of babies will be fine. You'll have a much clearer idea anyway after the fetal scan but if you don't want an amnio/cvs don't feel pressurised into it.

Thanks oops. I have an appt next Weds. Which seems like a year away, but the more I find out the more reassured I am feeling. I am trying to be positive and am telling myself I am lucky to be getting another look at the baby so soon after this scan.
I know this is a mad question but forgive me, I'm a paranoid pregnant woman. What could an unexplained 5mm white bit in the abdominal wall actually be? Could it be a tumour?

Wools I think I just read that article--I found it on a site set up by a v helpful woman who'd had cysts diagnosed on her baby's brain (they disappeared at 24 wks and her baby is fine).

Arabica, my consultant eventually decided that the echogenic bowel (also showed up white) was probably blood in the amniotic fluid that the baby swallowed. Seemingly, the placenta had bled although I was completely unaware of it....
I don't know for sure but I would lay money on it not being a tumour - probably something far more innocent.

I have no advice really, just wanted to express my sympathy as I know very well how worrying these scans can be, going through it myself at the moment.

As I see it it's more likely that your baby will be perfectly fine, so keep your chin up!

Dinosaur, that must have been terrifying. I've been researching and because I am over 20wks it looks like they'll suggest a fetal blood sample if they're worried.
Emkana, have you been told you've got soft markers too?

It's a bit more complicated than that in my case - they did find soft markers at my 20 week scan, yes, and again at a repeat scan, I then had an amnio which was clear. Nevertheless there are still things which are not quite right (enlarged ventricles of the brain, short femur and too much amniotic fluid at 27 weeks) and there is talk of the reason being a genetic disorder, with noone being able to tell us exactly what we might be looking at.

oh bugger, arabica. sorry to read this. sending lots of positive vibes, let me know if you fancy a coffee. xxxx

As far as I can see, the main effect of echogenic focii is parental worry and misery.
Ds had these, and talipes, and they frighhtened me half to death with talk of trisomy this and that. 'Soft markers' basically seems to mean an extremely slight completely unproven possible correlation. The echogenic focii in DS's heart were explained as calcium deposits - which apparantly Downs babies often have...but they are also extremely common in completely typical children, and entirely harmless in themselves!

Arabica, i know that once the seed of worry is planted, it can't be easliy rooted out - but i do hope your next scan gives you more re-assurance.

my brother and his wife were told at their 20 wk scan that their baby had choriod plexus cysts and other indicators of edwards syndrome. they had another scan a week later and all was fine, didn't need an amnio, a week of worrying over nothing really.

when i had my ds last year i asked the sonographer about these cysts. she told me all babies have them, they are a normal part of the brain developing. its just that usually by 20 wks, they have disappeared. most of the time, they are only there at 20 wks because the dates are slightly out and the baby may be younger than originally thought. she also said that a sonographer has to inform you of any abnormality, no matter how slight, basically to cover themselves in case parents say, why was this not spotted during the scans. but the offshoot is that parents end up worrying about things they otherwise wouldn't ever have known about.

hope your next scan goes alright,x.

i already had dd1 with down syndrome + heart defect when they found echogenic focii in dd2's heart. We were told it was a soft marker for down syndrome and the sonographer had been very careful to check everything. Apparently it is quite common to find these focii - or calcium deposits. Very rarely do they in isolation indicate anything. Had there been other markers then perhaps we could have considered dd2 would also have down syndrome BUT she was born without Down syndrome and all was fine.

I decided against an amnio - both times - with dd1 they detected her heart defect in utero and said it was a hard marker - basically they said if she was born without down syndrome it would be very rare.

The sonographer went to great lengths to reassure is and said that because equipment is soo high tech these days it picks up things like these more often adn generally all it causes is worry or concern and generally they are gone by the time the baby is born.

emkana & everyone else, thanks so much for posting. Am feeling slightly reassured. Hoxtonchick, will email you. I think I definitely deserve a coffee. And a bloody muffin!

Weekend was really difficult. I keep bursting into tears. How do people deal with the waiting? Read something scary about the risks of Edwards syndrome being really high for women of my age who've got the cysts, and up to about 1 in 3 if you have additional soft markers. Now I feel I should have had CVS testing done at 12 wks because at least then if I had had to terminate the pregnancy I wouldn't have felt it kick yet & it would be less difficult to bear than it would be now. I know I am being morbid but I can't help it.

Oh I am sorry for what you are going through. DS had 2 soft markers echogenic focii and renal dilatation picked up at 20 wks, we were frantic with anxiety, had amnio, and all was fine (though I did find the experience coloured the whole pregnancy, which makes me ).
You said that you will go for an amnio if that's offered. I guess there's a chance you'll be offered that there and then on Wed? Perhaps worth clarifying this on the phone beforehand, so you know where you are? Hospitals can be such terrifying/disorientating places.
Will be thinking of you

Arabica - no experience my self but thinking of you and feel three muffins would not be excessive! Try to think positive x

How long did you have to wait for the amnio results, bakedpotato?

Had scan on Thurs, they rang on Monday.
I think you're in my neck of the woods, this was at the Whit, where are you being seen?

sorry had amnio on thurs

Homerton. That's shorter than I thought the wait would be but I bet it was bloody awful for you.