i heard on the radio today that the abortion deadline.....

[ShaysMummy]

was to be brought down sooner than 24 weeks. is it just me, or does anyone else feel this is long overdue?
I dont want anyone to rip into me or anything mind.
just wondered what your thoughts were?

Shays. Abortions will always be carried out whether legally or illegally. I feel that it is better that they are carried out within the law and within controlled and aseptic environments.

i agree and said so further down.

chicagomum - having been there my heart goes out to your sister. It's the hardest and worst decision you'll ever have to make in your life. I have never regretted my decision just hated that a situation arose when I had to make that decision.

actually unless they have changed the law there is no deadline regarding time as to when a pregnancy can be aborted due to significant disabilities. Which means pregnancies can be aborted after the 24 week mark because of disabilities. I think FioFio alluded to it earlier.

This news actually made our local newspaper here in Aus

I have several friends who work as nurses and counsellors in this field and it is shocking what I hear. My friend who is a nurse (now retrained as a midwife) was present at many many abortions where the baby was born live and had to be killed after the birth, most of them are very strong and have to be killed in utero and come out as bits, it is not simply a case of their hearts being stopped painlessly and then them being delivered dead. Also, any person can request an abortion up to 24 weeks without having to give a reason and they will always do it (if one doctor wont agree they find another). I know some women that have done this because they have broken up with their partners or because they have changed their mind. I also know 2 counsellors who work in the NHS. It is legal to have a termination anything up to full term if there are reasons to warrant it, it doesnt have to be a major disability, it can be as small as Downs and it will be performed. IMHO the government are too permissive, they dont want to be unpopular and tell a mother that at say 36 weeks they will have to deliver their Downs baby live, they allow the baby to be killed so the woman does not have to consider whether to keep the baby or have it adopted.

I personally believe that with advanced medical practices we should reduce the time limit greatly to 16 weeks and ONLY allow terminations up to say 22 weeks if there is overwhelming medical evidence that the baby or the womans life is in danger.

hockeymum that is how I see it too. I just don't understand why the unborn child is not given any rights. Surely everyone would agree that termination at 36 weeks amounts to murder. Ds2 was born very healthy at 36 weeks.

I think people are deceiving themselves if they think that just because a baby is still in the womb that it is OK to take its life.

i had an accidental pregnancy as a teenager and was told by the abortion counsellor that i only had until 12 weeks to have it done if that was what i wanted which i thought was the general advice given unless in exceptional circumstances but after reading hockeymums post i am in serious - how can a live baby which has been born be killed?

My standard advice to people as a dooctor is always that they have to make a decisison by 12 weeks but it is definitely possible to get it done later - I do know people who have just "changed their mind" at 19-20 weeks and had a termination that late; I don't know any later than 21 weeks. You will NEVER not get the papers signed to say that a termination is advised - most doctors think their grounds for signing are the same at whatever age so signing is just the same as rubber stamping in effect. I agree with another post lower down - for many, probably most, women it's a very tough and painful decision. It is definitely true though that there are a significant number of women who treat it extremely lightly and come back time and again - not as contraceptive failures but just couldn't be bothered to make sure it didn't happen again. The thing that makes me sad is seeing so many women coming in for terminations (almost all in relationships with children already) and then almost immediately getting pregnant because they realise they did the "wrong thing" and they do want a baby after all.

I think the upper legal limit should be 12 weeks except where severe disability is diagnosed on the 20-week scan. I find the 24 week limit shocking and I will still find it shocking if lowered to 20 weeks or even 16 weeks.

like others on this thread I'm concerned about the thin edge of the wedge. In one of my jobs I had to read stories of what women went through before abortion was legal - and I would never wish that on anyone. OTOH I do believe that now babies are born alive at lower gestation it is right for the law to be changed.

For the vast majority of women an abortion isn't a decision to take lightly. Even if you do so because you've broken up with your partner it can mean that you are unable mentally to bring the baby up alone. I'd rather see them have the bay and have it adopted but I wouldn't force them to back street abortionists, knitting needles, infections and the butchery that used to happen.

Abortions for abnormality are even more difficult but if you were told your baby would be born dead/ had no brain and could have no meaningful life imagine how you would feel during your pregnancy. Blanket bans mean misery for some.

i think before 10 weeks imo. i don't want to say much more as i have a very strong opinion on abortions being banned unless under exceptional (and it must be exceptional) circumstances. people should be much more careful when having sex imo.

I too worry about the wedge; I also think that at some point it'll be feasible to take a two-week foetus to full term outside the body - will we change our feelings on abotion then?

I don't know the percentage but am also pretty sure that a lot of late terminations are carried out on very young women who've been in a mixture of denial and lack of information. Improve sex education, contraception information/availability/ and education about sex acts that won't get you pregnant, that's what I say.

I actually believe that a termination as early as possible into an unwanted pregnancy should be made quicker and simpler for people who are very clear about what they want. And many are. That might then leave more space in the system for people needeing more counselling, to be encouraged to seek help, so that less late abortions are requested.

And I think people who think preganancy is a game are the LAST people who should be forced into responsibility for babies they don't want. Having a baby should not be a punishment, or in the lives of the unthinking and irresponsible.

It should be alot lower than 24 weeks unless there is abnormalities IMO.

I have'nt read this whole thread so I just wanted to say I believe that everyone has the right to an abortion , but I am sooooooo glad of this news x

nutcraker , did you know that NHS classess a cleft lip or palate as an abnormality worthy of a late termination? I agree with your statement btw

my dd has a very complex cardiac condition and we didn't find out until we almost lost her 3 days after she was born. this was because she has a narrowed aorta and the blood was going through holes in her heart and through a duct which every baby is born with but it closes soon after birth and once this started closing we nearly lost our dd. she also has problems with her pulmory arteries and the valves in her heart. this wasn't spotted on the 20 weeks scan (which btw was rushed) and i am so glad as we would've probably been asked whether we would want to carry on with the pregnancy and i don't know what i would've choose tbh as i didn't know about cardiac conditions at that time. she had a unique operation which has so far stopped her being put on the transplant list. she also has feeding problems (has severe gastic reflux and is peg fed), a cleft in the soft palate, possible problems with her immune system, problems with her bowels, extra digits, learning disabilities and probably some more things which i don't know of right now (all caused by digeorge syndrome). but despite this she is such a happy, contentied little girl. she is my life and i could not be without her. although i really want a healthy child next time i am having a more indepth 20 week scan to know whether we will have a healthy child, but if not it doesn't matter i will love the child no matter what and despite all the surgery it's up to the child whether they want to be here and put up with that. our little girl did as she was in multiple organ failure and it was very much touch and go the first month of her life but she pulled through for us. i hate the way people have abortions if they find out they have a down's baby, it's wrong it's still your child, it's a risk you have to concider when you get pg. i know this will probably upset people but not one of us is perfect and why abort a child because you find out it's not going to get to do all the normal things like go to university and all that.

Im glad your dd is well I hope that there is npothing more you all have to deal with, I really upset a friend by telling her that my tests showed a 99% chance of physical and mental deformaties we opted to hav e ds and was only born 5 wks early and only has slight learning difficulties , he is in class of same age a t a n ordinari state primary. The friend who I told had a very late abortion as she was told the same, I am just saying this because its not always as cut and dry as it seems. x

motherinferior I'm sorry to say there are some people for whom no matter how much you provide information, education, awareness it will just never click. Some people are just plain irresponsible. Contraception is already free in this country. I know accidents happen and nobody is perfect but this is human life we are talking about.

And while I agree it is frightening to think of these people actually having and being responsible for the welfare of children, and of course children should not be seen as a punishment, once that "child" has come into being - at whatever stage you believe it becomes a being - (my view is that once fertilised the little bundle of cells has rights) I just cannot see any justification for taking that life, I just feel that it is not the mother's right to make that decision (unless the mother's life is threatened).

Well, obviously if you think all abortion is wrong you're going to approve of restricting it.

I don't think all termination is wrong - or indeed that all termination should be on the basis of disability. I have never had one, but I have been close to considering it, and I want my daughters to have that option available to them alongside all the information about how to manage their sexual practices in a way that means they are unlikely to need one.

To add my twopennorth to this potential firestorm...

When people use the argument 'Abortion is okay when a woman has been raped' - it assumes that all women who are raped are (a) willing to tell anybody - including their GP (b) believed, if they do tell someone and (c) that it can easily be proved that this was definitely rape. Sadly the conviction rate for rape is very low (I think about 20% these days), and that's for women who have actually made a police complaint and where the CPS believed that there was enough evidence to prosecute. Most victims of rape don't tell the police and very few tell their GP that that's the reason they want an abortion. It's much easier to say 'burst condom' than it is to admit to having been raped. So if you made it so that a woman has to prove rape before she can have an abortion the majority of pregnant rape victims would have to go through the whole pregnancy.

I'm prochoice btw, and don't think the law should be changed. I'm very nervous that it's the the thin end of the wedge, and the extreme prolifers really scare me - shooting doctors, firebombing clinics, shouting abuse at girls going into clinics... These aren't the actions of caring, kind people IMO.

There are as many situations as there are opinions.

Agree with edam.

Don't want to get all in depth because it is a very complex and emotive subject but if women are "forced" into continuing with a pregnancy they do not want what happens to these children when they are boRN?
Who is responsible for them?