Early scans and blood tests

[Diamondsamdrubies]

Went for seven week reassurance scan. Full bladder, fit to burst, yet sonographer couldn't see anything. Very worried now. They did blood test, Hcg level result:4397. Is that good or bad for dates? They will do another blood test tomorrow to see if Hcg is increasing. They wouldn't offer me any advice, saying we had to wait until Sunday's blood test results. I'm also booked in for another scan next Friday. Please share any advice regarding Hcg results. Very very worried. Anyone experienced nothing in early scan too? I was offered an internal scan, but I refused. Wasn't comforatable with the idea. TIA x

How many weeks do you think you might be? If still nothing seen next time (fingers crossed this won't be the case) then go for an internal scan....it really isn't as bad as it sounds. Not knowing what's happening is worse than having an internal scan! Your Hcg should double every 48 hours. Hope all is well for you....

Hi diamonds you need a second HCG test to compare results before you get any real information from them. As I WillDoThis says they should roughly double (60% when the number is below 6000)

There is an HCG calculator here, when you have both sets of numbers you can input it and get a good idea if all is well, the most important thing is that the second set of number is higher, dont panic if its not exactly double.

Thanks iwilldothis, ok, I will!
Mummyabroad: are there no estimates of what numbers should be in relation to how many weeks along the pregnancy is?

I would have had the internal scan, its nothing and they can see far more, i had one at 7 weeks and there was a little bean with a good heartbeat, the bloke scanning said often they can see nothing if its abdominal scan.

Ok. Thanks jezebel. Will consider that next time if necessary. I

Diamonds yes there are but there are different charts with different "standards" all of them are pretty vague as embryos can take different amounts of time to start implantating and producing HCG and of course if you have twins that makes the numbers higher too.

Here is the chart I was given with my results (AXSYM)

weeks since LMP mUI/Ml
3-4 9-130
4-5 75-2600
5-6 850-20800
6-7 4000-100200
7-12 11500-289000
12-16 18300-137000
16-29 1400-53000
29-41 940-60000

so you are good for dates for 7 weeks.

you only really get exact doubling in 48 hours in very early pregnancy, once the numbers start getting up in the thousands then it will take longer and longer to double.

After about 8000ml you should be able to see the embryo on a scan (internal)

I know its very worrying, but chances are everything is fine. Will keep my fingers crossed for you xx

Thankyou for such a detailed chart Mummyabroad! It's eased my worrying for the time being. I'll update tomorrow evening with the test results. This waiting is quite harrowing. Don't know how I'll cope with the next 18 years or so! I'll be a nervous wreck by the end of this pregnancy part alone :-) Keep those fingers firmly crossed - thanks x

Hi there! Quick update: Hcg results today- 5144. Good or bad?

To be totally honest the answer is: I dont know, but if I had to bet money I'd say Good.

I know its not bad because that would be a falling number, or a number that has hardly risen at all.

This site says "Between 1,200 and 6,000 mIU/ml serum, the hCG usually takes about 72-96 hours to double"

So, based on this information you wouldnt expect your first number of 4397 to double within 48 hours, let alone 24. I think because your first number is quite high to start with, you cant use the easy "doubling" rule, so I guess only a doctor can tell you if those two numbers are OK.

Hope I havent freaked you out by not giving a simple "yes its good"!! When do you get feedback from your doctor?

Are you going to go for the internal scan on Friday? It really doesnt hurt by the way, and its much less embarrassing and uncomfortable than a smear test for example.

Hope you are not too worried.

Hi diamond. Sorry to hear about your worry. I meant to say on the other thread that an internal scan is really the most accurate at this stage of pregnancy. In many hospitals it is the only early scan that they offer. Are they doing more bloods this week?

Sending you lots of love x

I am very very worried, to be perfectly honest! Doctor told me result over phone and wanted me back in hospital today. However, we are 250 miles away, due to sil getting married today(basically gave blood and went up north!). we were intending to return home Thursday evening, for scan on friday. Told doctor of our plans. His biggest fear is of ectopic. Told me to see a doctor up north if in pain. So, we are sticking to original plans. Bit apprehensive if I'm honest. But wouldn't an ectopic have manifested itself earlier than this ? I'm 7 weeks 3 days today, shouldn't numbers start slowing down anyway by now? All advice and experience gratefully received. TIA x

Hi Diamonds so sorry that your "reassurance" scan has not been at all "reassuring"!!

Everything that I have ever read about this leads me to believe that at your stage its very hard to tell if everything is alright. Many women dont see anything on even internal scans at 6/7 weeks and are told to come back a week later, and as I said before once the HCG is quite high its even hard to make sense of what those numbers mean. The fact that the clinic and your doctor havent really given you any specific advice about what these facts mean probably reflects the fact that they cant tell yet either. Sounds like you will just have to play the waiting game, as horrible as it is.

re "his biggest fear is of an ectopic" does he have a particular reason to fear this in your particular case or is he just explaining to you that this is something that can go wrong at this stage of pregnancy. Scans at 7 weeks can reassure you that the pregnancy is not ectopic, but apart from that do not really show much else - maybe he was just explaining that?

I had what turned out to be an ectopic (no pain at all) - I went to Legoland in the middle of it all, on strict instructions to get immediate medical help if I had any pain.

Be very careful of yourself, don't take any chances over pain/bleeding etc. but try not to worry too much as these things can take some time (2 weeks in my case) to work through.

Mummy: thanks for the advice. I don't know why the dr was explaining ectopic: maybe just his advice as scan didn't show where pregnancy was? I will, as you so rightly say, have to wait. Please keep those fingers crossed. X
Piprabbit: sorry to hear of your ectopic. How was it discovered? Did you bleed? How were you treated? Sorry for the inquisition... Please only share if you feel comfortable. Just want to be forewarned! Thankyou so much x

I'm also sorry your early scan hasn't provided the reassurance you were hoping for :(

The last time I was pregnant I had spotting/light bleeding from 5 weeks till about 6 1/2 weeks (at which point it turned into heavier bleeding and I M/C'd properly) - I got referred to my local Early Pregnancy Unit and they took blood, but they wouldn't scan until 7 weeks at the absolute earliest and then would only do an internal one as they felt that before then the chances of seeing anything were incredibly slim, even in the healthiest of pregnancies. At this stage everything is so tiny and so deep in the pelvis that an internal scan really does give the best chance of seeing anything at all (I wasn't particularly thrilled by the idea either, but it was actually fine - the probe was pretty slender, they used lots of lubricant and the sonographer didn't even need to look to get it in the right place! It wasn't the most comfortable experience ever, but more so than a smear for me - and at least I knew they'd had a good look at my uterus and confirmed that I'd had a complete M/C)

Re. ectopic pregnancy, that was my big fear when I spotted for so long - I got totally neurotic about it so asked lots of questions. I was told that one of the reasons HCP's get worried about them is because it really is nigh on impossible to predict if or when an ectopic pregnancy will cause problems. I was also told that it can be very hard to spot them on a scan as the presentation everyone imagines is an egg trying to develop in a fallopian tube and causing pain by stretching it, but an ectopic is a pregnancy that is developing anywhere other than in the uterus. A scan can confirm whether or not there is an egg growing in the uterus and may or may not be able to confirm whether there is anything in the fallopian tubes - but if the pregnancy is ectopic it could be anywhere in the abdominal cavity, which is why blood tests are so important (if HcG is rising but no pregnancy can be found then ectopic would be assumed). Because they aren't necessarily in a restricted space, they won't necessarily cause pain - and certainly won't cause pain at a predictable point in time.
You can download a leaflet from the Miscarriage Association which has a list of symptoms to look out for that would indicate you should seek medical advice. You can find an Early Pregnancy Unit here.

Did your Dr give you any more info on what to look out for and did he have specific reasons to be worried about this for you? Having not seen an embryo then they do need to consider ectopic or they wouldn't be doing their job properly - but its very early and they were using an abdominal scan...

If you haven't any other reasons to worry, I'd try and look at the positives:

• seeing anything on an abdominal scan at 7 weeks would be unusual, so not seeing anything is well within the bounds of "normal".
• you HcG levels are rising.
• you're not bleeding (I'm assuming as you haven't said).

Hope your SIL's wedding went well and you managed to put your worries aside for a little while and enjoy yourself for a little bit (easier said than done, I know). Fingers crossed you stay safe and well and the results of the scan this week are good :)

Diamonds - I was spotting a little at about 6 weeks. I called the MW, he sent me to the EPU. They did blood tests and a scan, there wasn't anything visible on the scan and the HCG levels weren't increasing as expected.

Then they did more blood tests, and even more blood tests (about every 72 hours for 2 weeks). The consultant also did an internal scan but couldn't see anything obvious.

Eventually the HCG levels led them to decide that whatever was happening the pregnancy wasn't viable. They did a laproscopy, and found an ectopic pregnancy in my right tube, which was removed. I had six weeks off work (thanks to a wonderful, caring nurse telling the young doctor what he needed to put on the certificate signing me off work), mostly the mental recovery as the physical side only took a couple of weeks to recover from.

BTW, the internal scan was fine. They use the regular 'TV' screen for viewing the pictures, but instead of the paddle-thing that they rub on your tummy they use a slim tube (covered in a condom and with loads of lubricant) which they place in your vagina and move slightly to look at your uterus and tubes from a much closer/clearer viewpoint. It doesn't hurt, perhaps very slight uncomfy, you will be decently covered and the knowing is better than the not knowing IMO.

I hope this info hasn't worried you unduly. Some ectopics are the kind of blue light emergencies you hear about, but others progress painlessly and need careful monitoring.

Good luck with your investigations Diamonds, I will be thinking of you.

Tangle : I am so very grateful for all the info you have supplied, including the reassuring words. I will opt for the internal scan on Friday for a clearer picture- all this worry is not worth it. No bleeding or pain, in fact no symptoms at all! Doctor not as helpful as you have been. All he said I told you guys earlier, very short conversation. Basically slow increase of Hcg was causing him concern: enough yo have kept me on the gynae ward if I'd been home!
Sil's wedding was beautiful. It was a small family affair which is why it was important for us to attend. Her kids were delightful. Kept us busy! 18 month old and 4 year old.
Please keep fingers crossed for us x

Thankyou for sharing your experience win me pip! It sounds like it was a very testing time for you. Of course I'm not worried,Forewarned is fore armed- thanks to you! I can't begin to imagine the nightmare you went through . I am pleased that you were treated so well, in time too. Will definitely have the internal scan on Friday. Please keep us in your thoughts. x

Diamonds, will be thinking of you this week. tangle has given you the most detailed advice and tbh what your dr should have said! I really hope that everything is ok for you and your dh. Keep us updated x

Hi Diamonds,

I'm glad I was able to give you some help - and I'm hoping your keeping well and looking after yourself. I've been thinking of you this week, and will be thinking of you tomorrow.

Your SIL's wedding sounds amazing :)

My EPU won't do a belly scan under 8 weeks, they do an internal scan. Not sure why they did say at the time bit it was 4 years ago and I have forgotten sorry.

Thank you so very much Tangle. It means so much to me. I had a call from GP on Monday to say that the scan is scheduled for Tuesday afternoon- as there'd been a mix up! Now it wouldn't have mattered otherwise. However, since Tuesday I've had dark brown discharge every time I've wiped after every loo trip since Tuesday. Between yesterday and today I've also had dark brown / almost black small clots on tissue when wiping. Rang gp- shesays wait until Tuesday and rest. I also have bad period like cramps. Thinking the worst at this moment in time. Sore nips disappeared yesterday too :-(

:( So sorry for your added stress.

Not trying to get to gory, but is the discharge thick or watery?

If it were me I'd be tempted to call an EPU just to get some advice from someone that's an expert in early pregnancy and the things that can happen - your GP may be fantastic, but they can't all know everything about every condition and some GP's have large gaps in their knowledge. If it were just the spotting I'd be less concerned - but the spotting in conjunction with the blood test results and the worry your consultant had would just make me be cautious. (Our EPU purposefully don't have an answerphone as they're not staffed all the time and they don't want women not seeking emergency help as they're waiting for the EPU to call back. Which is fine logic, but they also don't have a message telling you this - which got me quite stressed the first time I tried to call them and couldn't get through. If you can't get through to your closest unit its probably worth calling around a bit - I just needed someone on the other end of the phone to tell me I wasn't about to collapse in a heap so kept calling numbers till I got through to a wonderfully supportive MW about 50 miles away... )

I'll still keep my fingers crossed for you - some women do bleed a lot in the early weeks but the pregnancy goes on and is fine, even with loss of symptoms - but I know how hard it is not to think the worst.

Take care of yourself, and I hope you have a peaceful weekend.

It was watery originally. Now it's more like sludge. Not a huge amount- only on wiping. EVERY time I go to the loo. It's the lower back ache that accompanies it which is worrying as well as lower abdominal period like cramps which come and go. Spoke to a lady at the EPU, who consulted with a doctor there: same advice- wait until Tuesday. If bleeding turns red or more abundant then go to gp or hospital. Very frustrating. Just been trying to take it easy while at work! Google driving me mental! No one in RL I can confide in. DH away in Brussels on a business trip...which is why your post was like light at the end of the tunnel. Please keep fingers crossed for me Hun x

Diamonds, hadn't been keeping up with your progress, and feel bad about that. Is there no friend who you could confide in irl? This is tough stuff to deal with single-handed, and just a voice at the end of the phone or a hand to hold without having to say anything could help a lot - at this point your physical and mental well-being is more important than not telling friends/family too soon. I am hopeful that this will turn out well and have my fingers crossed for you.