Wow; it's only circumcision..

[Chloejp91]

Before I get killed, I'm not suggesting it is only circumsion, that's just the title of this thread.

I'm due in less than 4 weeks and I'm having a boy. I'm definitely going to circumcise him. It's part of my culture and my partner's culture so it's going to be done. I just feel sad that it's seen as such a bad thing, where there are some benefits to it.

Anyone circumsised/circumsizing their sons?

Adult males have much more to numb the pain don't they? Is that because they can complain more?

www.circinfo.net/anasthesia.html

TheFeministParent - your definition of reliable studies seems only to constitute those that back up your own opinion. As I have said numerous times and as has been acknowledged by others, there are studies that are conflicting in this area which is why everyone can find studies that support different sides of the debate.

I recall that you made a claim about the sensitivity of circumcised penises without providing proper scientific research to back up your claim.....

HouseofBamboo - the needle does not go into the foreskin

SHV - i had to laugh at you introducing Masters and Johnson research from 1965!

That would be the same M&J that believed they could convert homosexuals to heterosexuals as late as 1977.

Outdated and old fashioned. Try reading the link I put up from Dr Fleiss. I know you haven't read it - why would you? You are obviously a mine of information already.

As for pain, it is well documented that the baby appears to be peaceful after the operation. This is actually trauma and the child has gone into sleep mode to shut down the pain or is in a semi coma.

I am leaving this now but before I go I just want to say again

Sex with uncircumcised men feels much nicer and that must be a bitter pill to swallow for the likes of Larry. I'm sure you would say you have never had any complaints in that department but just imagine what a sex god you would be with a nice slippy foreskin and an extra few centimetres!

TheFeministParent - not necessarily. Circumcision in adults can be done with either a general or a local anaesthetic.

ladysoandso - I have in fact read it.

And I would say yet again - sex with a circumcised man is MUCH better in my experience!!!

I would love to know how you it is concluded that those circumcised as infants would have had larger penises as adults if they had not been circumcised....I can also say that the circumcised men that I have seen have not been lacking in the size department either!!!

SVH - In the interests of equivocal research, you should have a read of this page, which is a rebuttal of the theories of Dr Brian Morris, the author of circinfo.net which you just linked to.

Circumstitions

Thank you HouseofBamboo - I will read it but given the extensive opposing views published on this issue, I doubt that this will settle things unequivocally.

No, I'm sure it won't, but it may be useful if you are interested in assessing his credibility.

SVH....No I didn't, the 1996 paper goes into much detail.

My dd fell down the stairs at 18 months, she did not cry. Her head hit the floor like a cricket bat, there is no doubt that she ws in pain but her brain went into survival mode.

Having slept with quite a few men I have found sex with a snipped man is dry to start with and not as good, I have quite a number of all sizes to compare too! And masterbation must need extra help too, that's why Americans are obsessed with lube.

My reliable medical studies do seem to be academic and not promoting circumcision.

Chloe, I really feel for you. I have just read a few posts on this thread and am very surprised that people have such strong reactions! My husband is American, and apparently, all male children are circumcised at birth there, and he suggested that we look into this in the UK. We are both orthodox christians and are highly educated, and we do not see any problem or "barbarism" associated with the process. I am not a Brit, and in my homeland most boys were not circumcised in the old days, however, nowadays many specialists encourage parents to look into circumcision. In any case, I'd be curious to find out what the process is in the UK and what is the best time to do this (eg, at birth as in the USA or some other time).

HouseofBamboo - I am interested so again thank you.

TheFeministParent - the preference of sex with a circumcised man vs an uncircumcised one is clearly a matter of opinion, much like the whole issue of circumcision....

I can also assure you that IME masturbation does not need 'extra help'....

lilly13 - there are a number of qualified specialist consultants that you can speak to about the procedure on infants. They will be happy to discuss all aspects with you and put you into contact with parents whose sons they have performed the procedure on. This way you will hear first hand experiences which IMO is the best way to find out about the procedure as it is currently done in the UK.

Emotionally I cannot understand anyone who looks at the perfect newborn and thinks hmm when shall we cut off that bit?

It's backward.

Thank God there are drs in this country who refuse to do it...

lilly, based on what she has learned from teh links in this thread chloe and her partner have decided against circumcision for their son. she was actually quite appalled at some of what she read.

TheFeministParent - why are you thanking God for that?! It doesn't actually make any difference to the number of circumcisions carried out in this country.

"It's backward" - I presume you mean in your opinion it's backward.

Lily - it may be hat when your husband was born there was a very high uptake of circumcisions.

While it is still way more common in the USA than in Europe the tide is turning and there is a more even distribution of cut/uncut babies.

Frankly this is because where it was once done as a matter of course, parents today, guided by medical experts, are questioning the supposed benefits of circumcision.

Will someone please explain to me why they do not think removing a part of a babies genitals is barbaric and against their fundamental human rights?

SVH78 you've probably forgotten about me but I'm the one who you think has no right to comment on religion.

As it goes I did do a studies or religion module in the first year of my degree course many moons ago and I pretty quickly learned from an academic standpoint all I needed to know about what's behind organised religion - as if I didn't know it already.

So, that said, I think I'm far more qualified to comment on the sheer lunacy of organised religions that advocate the mutilation of children's genitals and abuse of their human rights than you, as a woman, are on what degree of pain a small baby feels when he is either (a) circumscised without anaesthetic and (b) recovering from the actual prodecure itself, whether carried out with or without anaesthetic.

For all your haughty, and dismissive posturing here you cannot escape the fact that you propose to put your child through a degree of pain and discomfort (if not during the actual procedure for which we understand he will be anaesthetised but post operatively) for no reason whatsoever other than your own selfish reasons.

Deliberately setting out to harm a child and cause it pain and discomfort for no reason whatsoever (which is what you will be doing no matter how you try to justify it with well-chosen weasel words) is wrong and can never be justified.

End of.

Genevieve - I certainly do not think that a module in a degree course is enough for you to comment on a particular religion.

It is clearly not done for 'no reason at all', just because you do not agree with our reasons does not make them not reasons.

You may call me selfish, haughty, dismissive and accuse me of posturing but these are merely personal attacks on me simply because you have run out of logical arguments.

I have read both sides of the debate and my position remains unchanged. I do however appreciate your right to an opinion and would not lower myself to making personal attacks against you because I do not agree with you.

Hello, Well, there have been a lot of posts since last night, I would like to reply to several things which have been said, but I don't have all night.

SVH78

I have looked at the links that you have posted and I am slightly confused by your source. There are 3 statements which don't tally.

Circumcision of male babies and children at the request of their parents is an increasingly controversial area and strongly opposing views about circumcision are found within society and within the BMA?s membership. The medical evidence about its health impact is equivocal.

Lilly, I'm afraid you are a bit misinformed.
"My husband is American, and apparently, all male children are circumcised at birth there,"

Approx 30% of baby boys are circumcised in the UK, there has been a large decline in recent years for many reasons.

"nowadays many specialists encourage parents to look into circumcision."

I'm intregued as to what country has specialists reccomending Routine Infant Circumcision. In the UK and most "1st world" countries it is not seen to have any medical or health benefits unless the child has a specific medical condition in which case circumcision is still seen as the option of last resort.

I'd be curious to find out what the process is in the UK and what is the best time to do this (eg, at birth as in the USA or some other time).

In the UK, 18 years is considered the age of responsibility, let your son decide then?

For most children it is unnecessary at any age and according to confuddleds data on page 20 the death rate is quite worrying.

Which type of circumcision method are you contemplating? I

I recommend that you watch the video for the type that you are considering, evaluate the risks, the degree of distress that it could cause either to the child or the man.

If you can't bring yourself to watch the video then don't do it and be happy that your child is perfect with a foreskin.