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Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Wow; it's only circumcision..

781 replies

Chloejp91 · 29/12/2010 22:11

Before I get killed, I'm not suggesting it is only circumsion, that's just the title of this thread.

I'm due in less than 4 weeks and I'm having a boy. I'm definitely going to circumcise him. It's part of my culture and my partner's culture so it's going to be done. I just feel sad that it's seen as such a bad thing, where there are some benefits to it.

Anyone circumsised/circumsizing their sons?

OP posts:
confuddledDOTcom · 30/12/2010 03:09

A few months ago I broke my nail clean in half from side to side, it was seriously the worst pain I have ever experienced. It's pretty similar to circumcision because the nail is as fused to the nail bed as the foreskin to the glans. I'm still in a lot of pain with it, I can't do a lot and it's my right hand! I got an acrylic put on last week to protect it.

Go to the doctor and ask them to pull your nail off with a local anaesthetic and see how much pain you're in. You could try asking for him to remove your foreskin if you really think it doesnt hurt.

BTW, it is illegal in both the USA and the UK, it only takes one person to call on those laws...

1 Many older men, who have bladder or prostate gland problems, also develop difficulties with their foreskins due to their surgeon's handling, cleaning, and using instruments. Some of these patients will need circumcising. Afterwards it is often astonishing to find some who have never ever seen their glans (knob) exposed before!

Have these men never had an erection??? It's exposed when they get an erection and when they have sex.

"Man-Nurse" says this:

"I can personally attest to this now, because I worked for six years as a certified nurse aide prior to becoming an RN. I worked with countless intact men, mostly European immigrants in Chicago: Poles, Serbs, Lithuanians, etc. Younger men and older men. Men who could walk to the bathroom, and men who constantly soiled themselves. Men who had indwelling Foley catheters and men who didn't. Men who were impeccably clean, and men who were homeless. Men who were healthy, and men who were critically ill and severely immunocompromised.

Never once did I encounter an adult male patient who had ever had a medical problem due to being intact.

Not only that, but during the cleaning of patients, I only ever worked with two nurses (that I remember) who would actually go through the rigmarole of retracting the foreskin, cleaning the glans, and replacing the foreskin. That's what we were taught in CNA and nursing school, but almost everyone would leave it alone. I suspect most people who work with a high intact population do the same. If it never presents a problem, it's always clean, and you're just causing discomfort, why do it?

In fact, female patients are far more prone to fungal and bacterial genitourinary infections than male patients are?yeast infections, urinary tract infections, abscesses, etc. And we know that this is largely due not only to their shorter urethra, but also to their labial folds?their "excess" skin. Why don't we cut that off? Why isn't female circumcision considered for infection prophylaxis? That's how we think of male circumcision. Except the reality is that, as with male patients, the 'benefit' of circumcision would be negligible, because the number of serious complications with women staying 'uncircumcised' is extremely minor."

2 Some older men develop cancer of the penis - about 1 in 1000 - fairly rare, but tragic if you or your son are in that small statistic. Infant circumcision gives almost 100% protection, and young adult circumcision also gives a large degree of protection.

Penile cancer accounts of 0.2% of cancer and 0.1% of cancer deaths in the USA, in countries that don't have RIC the rate of penile cancer is the same. Breast cancer on the other hand causes about 10% of all cancers and 7% of cancer deaths, who's up for a mastectomy of their little girls?

3 Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. An article in the British Medical Journal in April 2002 suggested that at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised. Surely that alone makes it worth doing?

Cervical cancer causes 2% of all cancers. HPV can be prevented by teaching our children about safe sex and condom use. Also the earlier you have sex the higher your likelihood of cervical cancer so teaching our children to wait can also help.

4 Protection against HIV and AIDS. Another British Medical Journal article in May 2000 suggested that circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. (It is very important here to say that the risk is still far too high and that condoms and safe sex must be used - this applies also to preventing cancer of the cervix in women who have several partners.)

A BBC television programme in November 2000 showed two Ugandan tribes across the valley from one another. One practised circumcision and had very little AIDS, whereas, it was common in the other tribe, who then also started circumcising. This programme showed how the infection thrived in the lining of the foreskin, making it much easier to pass on.

Do you not have anything more recent?

Anyway, the African study was halted early because too many of the men contracted HIV. It was also a highly flawed study. For example the men who were circumcised were given sex education and condoms, the men who weren't were not given anything.

5 As with HIV, so some protection exists against other sexually transmitted infections. Accordingly, if a condom splits or comes off, there is some protection for the couple. However, the only safe sex is to stick to one partner or abstain.

It doesn't protect against HIV as I've already said. Here's an article that explains it better than I can.

6 Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.

I take it you're in the USA? Most British are horrified at RIC, read the two threads at the moment! Men who are whole are not necessarily dirty or smelly and I've known circumcised men who are both. We should be teaching our children, boys and girls, how to clean themselves when they bathe. Who are we to make decisions for our newborn's sex life? You are assuming that he is going to meet some very shallow women and you are not teaching him self confidence, you're teaching him that something was wrong with his body and he should only go for women who are shallow. Wow. Good message.

7 Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision.

Balanitis is caused by poor hygiene (so teach your son to wash himself); infection (not STD, just like we women get thrush) which can be treated easily with cream; STDs (so teach your son about safe sex); allergies and irritants (caused by forcibly retracting the foreskin and/or using soaps or other scented products under the foreskin). In other words it's easily prevented and easily treated.

8 Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely.

A UTI can easily be treated with ABx, it only gets serious when ignored. 5% of babies who have a high temperature but no other symptoms of illness probably have a UTI. UTIs are more common in girls (1 in 10 will get one before they're 16) than boys (1 in 30 before 16) due to the shorter urethra, but you're not advocating cutting them, you'll just give your daughter ABx, right? What's the difference?

In up to 40 per cent of cases, there is some form of structural abnormality that predisposes the person to infection.

Other predisposing factors include not going to the toilet often enough (so make sure you encourage your little to go often), hurrying in the toilet and not emptying the bladder fully (all may mean that any bugs in the bladder are not flushed out before they multiply), constipation, inflammation of the vulva (girls) or damage to the bladder nerves. All either preventable or structural so not a lot you can do about it.

midori1999 · 30/12/2010 03:35

How any parent can watch that video and think it is fine to put a baby through that is completely beyond me. I have to admit, I did watch most of it, but couldn't watch it until the end, I had to turn it off it was too upsetting and wasn't even my baby. Sad

I will never get the 'so he looks like Daddy' arguement either. WTF is wrong with people. All penises look different, even if they are circumcised or not. If your son's penis is a few inches bigger thsn Daddy's, are you going to cut the excess off so they look the same?! FFS!

babynelly2010 · 30/12/2010 04:14

I did not see the video actually. I am sorry for that... I am sure it is one of the kind a butchery freak accident one kind of a video or something to that regard. There are many ways to perform circumcision and most methods are done pain free if done correctly. By the way a I want to mention that I do respect the British view of this issue as well. Majority people in the UK are uncircumcised and that's what people used to. I can see how being circumcised can be viewed differently which is not always good. In my country most people are circumcised and uncircumcised penis is often subject of ridicule. I plan to return home, so if I had a son, placing him into society where uncircumcised penis is ridiculed would be very unfair. I once had a lover who had uncircumcised penis and it took me a long freaking time to figure out to what the hell was going on down there simply because I have never seen one looking like that. Preventive reasons... there are many, one important reason... I would not want my son to get an infection at the age of 6 or 9 and than have a traumatizing surgery that will hurt even more and will take much longer to heal at that age and yes it will scar a lot more. To be honest I am glad I am having a daughter so I don't have to deal with this issue while in the UK. It sounds like circumcision is much complex process in here, which mean that the technologies may be did not catch here and may be this procedure does hold much more risks than it really should.

I think it will not matter what I say here I will always be wrong. People will come on and pick my words, read between the lines and say all kind of things. Simply because the general population has a different view here, all I can do is share my view.

earwicga · 30/12/2010 04:18

babynelly - it's not that the general population has a different view, it's that science has proved there is no need for circumcision. There is no need for your child to get an infection and surgery at age 6 or 9 as you fear - you can easily prevent that from happening without circumcising him. Perhaps have a read through of this thread?

midori1999 · 30/12/2010 04:26

Babynelly, this is the video. The parent (Father) is present and other than the fact the doctor seems in no rush, it seems a routine procedure to me. Sad

www.givingbirthnaturally.com/circumcision-video.html

I have three sons, the eldest 14. None have ever had any problems related to not being circumcised, nor has my DH.

The American Paediatric Society advise against routine circumcision and have been doing so for over 10 years as they feel it has no medical benefit whatsoever.

differentnameforthis · 30/12/2010 06:01

I can't watch all of that video posted by KickArseQueen.

Are you seriously saying -those in favour of this barbaric treatment - that that doesn't hurt the baby?

Because if you are, you are a liar!

wannaBe · 30/12/2010 06:23

It is child abuse.

Don't like being thought of as a child abuser? Well don't mutilate your child then!!!

K12Mom · 30/12/2010 06:31

Some African countries that routinely practice circumcision have some of the highest HIV rates in the world.

SpannerPants · 30/12/2010 08:35

When I was working in A&E, a mum brought her 1yr old in because he had been circumcised with one of the plastibell devices. Well, it had been put on but it hadn't come off.

The poor little guy had developed scar tissue in the week it had been on, which wouldn't allow it to drop off. His mum said he had screamed constantly for the last 2 days, she looked absolutely exhausted.

He ended up being admitted to hospital, having an operation to remove the plastibell and scar tissue and having IV antibiotics for 5 days. The scar tissue was affecting the way he passed urine so he ended up with a UTI as well.

It's not something I would put my precious baby through personally.

MadameCastafiore · 30/12/2010 08:44

DS has been circumcised for medical reasons - his foreskin was acually stuck to the glands of his penis and I haven't cried as much as I did seeing the amount of pain he was in - which partly was due to the severity of his condition - it did make me think though that if anyone could see a small child in so much pain they wouldn't have it done unless it was medically necessary!

Snorbs · 30/12/2010 09:37

Chloejp91 why is it so important to get this done now rather than letting your son make an informed decision for himself when he's an adult?

It's his penis. Why can't he get to choose if he wants it mutilated modified?

fallingandlaughing · 30/12/2010 10:01

There is zero chance that anyone is cutting off bits of my baby's genitals. Even though, in the case of boys, is is part of my culture too. Sometimes you need to make your own decisions when cultural traditions are harmful.
If my baby is a boy, he can decide for himself later. I think I can guess what that decision will be..

As for the arguments is favour. Two things: soap, condoms

second circumcision thread in the last few days Hmm

LittleBugsMum · 30/12/2010 10:08

My DH is circumcised (when he was a baby, for medical reasons)

I agree it's nicer to look at than any uncut I've ever seen. And possibly cleaner.

That said, if he had a foreskin I wouldn't want him to remove it. That would be a ridiculous thing to want.

My little boy has a natural little penis, no problems, no pain (although I do wince when he messes with it in the bath Blush)

I'm leaving perfection alone.

differentnameforthis · 30/12/2010 10:35

babynelly2010 How is the operation performed where you originate from?

differentnameforthis · 30/12/2010 10:50

I agree it's nicer to look at than any uncut I've ever seen. And possibly cleaner

My dh has his foreskin. And he is clean. Because he washes everyday!

I don't get the clean argument!

LittleBugsMum · 30/12/2010 11:04

Some men don't wash everyday. Fact Smile.

Doesn't make them bad people (also doesn't make them my DH either...)

Perhaps it's just shinier (hey, we're all adults here) hence the 'possibly cleaner'. Plus he is mine so I'm supposed to think it's nicer.

I'm not judging men with foreskins at all!

SparklyMartini · 30/12/2010 11:06

The "clean" argument is bonkers. It's so obviously bonkers that I struggle to grasp how anyone could be convinced by it. It's more of an excuse than an actual reason.

I'm SO glad MN is largely sensible about circumcision. I have always thought it was horrible, even though I was mostly raised in the USA where it seemed at that time to be the norm.

SparklyMartini · 30/12/2010 11:07

Some women don't wash every day. Fact. Maybe they ought to have those inconvenient skin folds around their genitals surgically modified?

In fact, maybe all girls should, just in case they grow up to be among the minority of women who are incapable of learning to wash their genitals.

SparklyMartini · 30/12/2010 11:08

LBM, I homed in on what you said there but didn't mean to make this all about you btw, apologies if I seemed to target you, I just find that argument maddening.

Bluegrass · 30/12/2010 11:15

So a sensitive part of a man's body that nature intended to be protected by a hood of skin is rubbed to a "shine" - and this is a good thing? A shine is what you want on a kitchen sink, not a piece of the anatomy covered in sensory receptors!

Bluegrass · 30/12/2010 11:15

So a sensitive part of a man's body that nature intended to be protected by a hood of skin is rubbed to a "shine" - and this is a good thing? A shine is what you want on a kitchen sink, not a piece of the anatomy covered in sensory receptors!

differentnameforthis · 30/12/2010 11:19

Some men don't wash everyday. Fact

Regardless of if they are circumcised or not, if they don't wash themselves everyday, they'll be dirty. Not washing isn't exclusive to the non-circumcised.

LittleBugsMum · 30/12/2010 11:33

Haha - you ladies know I'm not arguing for circumcision right? For any reason & certainly not cleanliness because that argument is maddening to me too.

I just happen to like my DH's circumcised (for medical reasons) penis.(I don't always like the man attached but not going to painfully remove him either)

I know that men with foreskins aren't dirty!! Yep, people in general might not wash everyday, hell I'm 36 weeks pregnant, I might've missed the odd day...no need to hack off bits of my body.

sarah293 · 30/12/2010 11:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

HouseOfBambooootiful · 30/12/2010 12:05

What I really can't get my head around is the fact that it's LEGAL in the UK (or anywhere, for that matter) for someone who isn't a qualified medical professional to perform circumcisions WITHOUT ANAESTHETIC on non-consenting children.

As someone pointed out earlier, it's illegal to treat an animal with such cruelty. And if it were any other body part (ironically), the child would be whipped away by Social Services within hours.

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