Question: Which toilet should a male use when taking DD to the loo??

[Dawnyann]

Hi,

My & my DH are having a dilema over when he takes our DD out on his own and she needs the toilet, should he take her into the ladies or the mens??

I say it should be the ladies for a number of reasons:

1. There won't be any mean standing with their bits out wee'ing up urinals for her to see
2. he can go in cubicle with her
3. Ladies toilets are generally cleaner (and nicer smelling than mens)

He disagrees and says he always takes her in the mens!!

Is there a politically correct answer to this question?? I'd like to hear what other people think on this?

D
x

MsScarlettInTheLibrary - I imagine the parents of the children in the report I linked to above felt exactly the same way, before they were attacked. Common sense? You have none.

If there's a disabled toilet available he should try to use that?
I'm pretty sure any disabled people wouldn't mind in the circumstances (I never see a queue outside a disabled loo anyway)

you know all this can be resolved with mixed toilets

I would not be happy with DD going to mens toilets - for lots of reasons including I wouldn't want her to feel she could go into a mens toilet on her own when she got older (which might be a conclusion she could come to if she was used to going into them IYSWIM).

Men should feel free to used the Disabled/Family loos when with their daughters where and when available - and the mens in an absolute emergency. I'd rather see a man in the ladies with a young DD than see a young girl taken into the mens loos.

I would say the mens, UNLESS they are really unsanitary/have no cubicle and DD has to go right away (as they are prone to) in which case an apologetic look should get him into the ladies without any raised eyebrows... after all if they can see him they can see he has a small child with him!!

"I'd rather see a man in the ladies with a young DD than see a young girl taken into the mens loos."

Sorry, that seems absolutely mad to me. What are these other issues apart from the thought that they can go in toilets on their own later, which is also odd. Children go lots of places with adults that they can't go on their own until they're much older, including pubs, buses, trains, sporting venues, across main roads ...

"MsScarlettInTheLibrary - I imagine the parents of the children in the report I linked to above felt exactly the same way, before they were attacked. Common sense? You have none."

Slightly harsh, perhaps? You must realise that the chances of a child being attacked in the toilets are extremely, extremely tiny. And that listing that tiny chance as a reason to not allow your child to toilet themselves in an appropriate public place when they are capable and happy to do so is an awesomely distorted perception of risk.

what do you propose dad should do when he needs the toilet and is out by himself with a dd? should he hand her over to a stranger for safekeeping?

I don't understand the concern ''I would not be happy with DD going to mens toilets - for lots of reasons including I wouldn't want her to feel she could go into a mens toilet on her own when she got older (which might be a conclusion she could come to if she was used to going into them IYSWIM).''

surely it is more about the child feeling secure

I really don't think that being taken into the men's as a small child means that they expect to go into the men's as a slightly older child

Men should not go into the ladies loo - If I was in the ladies I would be shocked to see a man in there. Women have been raped/attacked by men in ladies loos so your dh would be putting himself in a vulnerable position (I'm sure he wouldn't attack anyone but his intentions may be misread).

I don't understand that concern either - little boys get taken into the Ladies with their mums all the time, but somehow manage to grasp the concept of going to the men's room when they're older!

Crikey, I wonder if BF my children or spoon feeding them or wiping their bums will mean they'll expect me to still do those things when they're 15?

"Children go lots of places with adults that they can't go on their own until they're much older, including pubs, buses, trains, sporting venues, across main roads .."

yes but there aren't small private cubical's with locking doors in these places which tend to be much more public than a men's public toilet. I don't think I'd necessarily feel safe going alone into a men's public toilet and I'm a grown woman - why would I want to encourage my young DD to think it's OK to go in there?

Surely the harm posed to grown women by a man taking his small daughter into a ladies loo is much less likely than the potential harm posed to a small girl who wanders alone into a mens toilet (thinking it's OK as she's been in there lots of time before with Daddy?)

yes but the point is she would not be going alone but with her father

and besides I should like dd to grow up with the notion that most men are perfectly decent and not all potential rapists

and most of all dads spending time with their children by themselves is a very good thing to be encouraged and putting obstacles in the shape of some ill defined harm which may come to them at some point in the future seems needless to me

although I understand you want the best for your child and are entitled to your own feeling on the matter

What is a small girl wanders into the ladies loo and happens upon a man whose presence is not questioned by anyone? I'm not a sex attacker but if I was I think I'd have more success loitering in the ladies saying 'hurry up dd' to an empty cubicle than I would have in the mens waiting for an unaccompanied girl. The girl who is wondering into the mens loo by herself is presumably old enough to go to the loo unaccompanied so a boy of that age would be using the mens and a girl could encounter an adult man in the ladies (with his 'dd').

If she's old enough to be out and about on her own, surely she's old enough to understand that she shouldn't go into the men's toilet? Or do you mean if she got lost in a shopping centre or something? In which case surely it would make more sense to teach her what to do in the event of getting lost, e.g. stay where you are, ask another mum with children for help - or whatever people teach these days!

It's obviously a concern for you, but really it seems a bit far-fetched and not a good enough reason IMO to justify the annoyance her dad would cause by going into the ladies' with her. Or to justify using the disabled facilities.

"Surely the harm posed to grown women by a man taking his small daughter into a ladies loo is much less likely than the potential harm posed to a small girl who wanders alone into a mens toilet (thinking it's OK as she's been in there lots of time before with Daddy?)"

Have just taken a few minutes off sitting around in a public lavatory to prey on women and children (it's what we all do in there, don't come in, ladies!) in order to answer this.

The only thing I have EVER been aware of men doing in a public toilet is pissing and shitting. Presumably, over the years, I have been unwittingly present while some hot consensual gay action went on behind a locked cubicle door, ditto graffiti writing, perhaps even cigarette smoking.

Is it different in women's loos? Is it full of paedos on the prowl? If so, I fully understand your fears.

If not, I do not think you have a very strong grasp on what "risk" is.

Even accepting that there is a risk of harm to a child in a men's toilet - and, obviously, I frequented these places very young and have never, EVER been approached by anyone - there is no reason why any sane child would think it was all right to go in there without her dad just because she had gone in there with her dad; unless, as I say, you think that because a child has crossed a road with her dad she will think it is okay to do so without him. How do we prevent this possibility? We say, "don't do it." And, without sensationalising or scaremongering, we tell them why.

I have 2 DDs, aged 5 and 3. They have been into the mens toliets numerous times with their Daddy. Neither would ever dream of wandering in alone. If they are with me, they automatically head to the ladies. They know they are girls and they know that they only use the mens if they are out with just Daddy because grown-up men cannot use the Ladies.

But then I would, and have, happily stripped them (and DS) off poolside to shower. I would never waste my time worrying that one of the 8 or so men in there would be a danger. Statistically, it's highly unlikely and whilst I'd never put them in direct danger, I don't wish to go through life assuming because someone is a man therefore he could be predatory.

Of course your DD will use men's loos when she is older! Isn't it a drunken rite of passage when the ladies queue is too long and everyone hoists up their dresses and heads into the men's instead????

I think DDs should go with their dads to the mens unless extenuating circumstances in which case a sheepish look and an explanation (including to DD) will cover most circumstances.

i have the opposite problem, as with sylvanianfamily now - ds is almost 5 and flatly refuses to go in the ladies - "mummy i'm a boy so i go into the boys toilet. I can use the standing up loo without a flush you know"...

Good for him-mine refused to go in the ladies at that age too.
The DD should go in with Daddy-he can't go in the ladies.

He should go to the mens. Despite the fact that urinals are tongue height to the average 2-3 year old, as we discovered as my DC lunged for one [yuk][got there in time thankfully].

I can't say this has every been a problem, DH has always taken dd into the unisex (accessible for the disabled) toilet, or into a Costa/Starbucks etc where there's usually just one unisex toilet.

She's (7) old enough now to go into the ladies on her own, and I'm guessing DH waits outside the door.

If I had a DS, I'm guessing I'd take him into the ladies, where everything personal is done in a cubicle, so not a problem.

as a toddler dd once accidentally wandered into the mens toilet at a theme park, followed quickly by me, and I can assure you dd's pointing and questioning was embarrassing only for the men stood at the urinal.

I don't see that it is a problem-it is more usual the other away around, and women cope with boys. He simply takes her in the mens, and she is too little to really notice, and by the time she is 5yrs he can send her in the ladies and wait outside.

DP takes DD to the disabled toilet...