Jan 2009 - these boots are made for walking... lets just hope they stay in sight!

[120]

had to do a new thread as the old one just wasn't pleasing my computer!

Moose Crikey, your life is epic. I wouldn't be able to even nearly take it on.

We've taken the 'no response' rule when DD falls or bumps hard into things. When she falls we don't react and now DD is a daredevil with a high pain tolerance. Now I have to watch her the opposite way... speaking of which, she just took a huge bump into the kitchen island. Shakes it off, gets a kiss from Dad and off she goes.

Carnies are the people that work the carnival rides and games. Lots of drug use.

A corn dog is awful. Its a thickly corn bread coated hot dog on a stick and deep fried and lathered in yellow mustard. It sounds good, and I'm sure you could make posh ones, but these are awful and will let you know soon after. I think its the hot dog for the most part.

Lenni glad it wasn't just us with the ittis not working recently - have just offloaded some to tree and dog - you should get today! - and they gave me some good tips for other options, I could forward to you if you like?

Hope you get a quiet day after your late night - sounds like fun though!

tea there were lots of other suggestions, don't worry, and lots of helpful ones too - I was just being negative generally about my hopes of stopping. But really I don't want to stop, I just want to feed quietly and gently every now and then - instead the reality is like being playfully mauled by a large drooling labradoor . I can't simply 'replace feeds' because there are no feeds as such - just milk on tap whenever he fancies a break. I always offer water first which sometimes does the trick.

books omg, that sounds like hell - you deserve an award. What a lovely sister you are though.

tea N has a minor accident every day at least - and I don't have another one to keep an eye on. My friend's DS, same age, recently knocked himself cold out simply by running into a wooden strut under a table - just terrible luck that he hit his head in a certain way - they rushed him to hospital and luckily he came around no problem. So don't beat yourself up.

chef lol at 'these are awful and will let you know soon after'.

mm hope you feel better.

Time to get up. Doesn't look so warm today. Relief!

Morning

Hi Lenni, glad you are feeling better now.

Chef, funny - my sister said after 48 hours living my life that she doesn't know how I do it and could never manage it herself and that's from a woman that brought up her 3 dcs on her own. In some ways its reassuring that other people 'get' how tough things can be around here, but in others it makes me feel a bit like we are a freak show that will never fit in anywhere.

Dog, sorry to hear about the bleed. Hope the mw gets back to you soon and all is ok. ((hugs)) Forget the hoovering, rest and look after yourself, that's much more important than a clean carpet and you shouldn't vacuum at all when you have spd anyway. Leave it and ask your oh to do it when he comes home. It'll take him five minutes. ((more hugs))

We had a horrible start to the day. Am just sat here recovering as dd is still asleep.

Ds1 went all ASD/glutened, just as dh and ds2 were going out the front door. He kept going through the gate into the kitchen, but in a daze and not saying/answering us as to why. Then he had a huge meltdown, when I had to physically stop him going through the gate for about the fifth time. He was making everyone late and we couldn't understand why.

It seems he wanted to go to the bathroom to check if his dinosaur had grown! We never seem to get him to school without a meltdown (usually from me as well as him) these days - its so draining. He'd been really good up until that point this morning as well.

I found it really upsetting, as it clearly wasn't anywhere near 'normal' behaviour. He was totally in a world of his own, not hearing dh or I when we spoke to him and just sort of repeatedly pinballing back and forth through the gate, coming back in when we managed to 'touch' his consciousness then losing us again and going back through to the kitchen. Its hard to describe, suffice to say it was very odd.

DOG - can someone come and help you today?

morning all, good to see ya books.

chef, thanks for the translation. will not be craving corn dogs then. I thought they were sweetcorn in a roll, which sounded nice.

Miss J am v amused by the continuing brownie success. Must warn you the choc balls are more kiddy snacks as they are v healthy. Not like the truffles I make with green & blacks cherry chocolate. Now they are serious!

I am completely with you about being mauled by a drooling lab on the feeding front too. I am considering dropping the morning feeds (managed to get rid of the day feeds by thrusting pots of cheerio/raisin mix at him in one of those amazing feeder cups that has rubber strips on top so it is fascinating to get them out). Anyhoo, seems that H can tell when I'm trying not to give him milk. Cue shouting 'Mok, Mok. MOKMOKMOK' then grabbing my pj top and shoving his whole head inside whilst trying to roll on top of me and latching at the same time. It is as unpleasant as it sounds. I'm just petrified of those teeth. He has also started licking my face this morning in a sort of half lick/half snog. He is teething so the slobber/snot/tongue scenario is hideous and also hard to avoid as he pins my head down with my hair. Any older and it would be assault!

Right. at work. must. do. work. Hopefully will be a bit more successful with that than I was with my run yesterday!

HZ hope you are ok.

xpost moose. I'm sorry you've had such an awful morning.

I have noticed that DD always starts creating a 'situation' whenever we try to leave the flat. I don't know whether she is reacting to our increasing stress levels, or whether we get more stressed as she gets more hectic.

My point is that I think some kids have an issue with leaving the house. I now get her ready first and give her something to do outside/read near the door so that I'll I have to do is give her a little push and we are out. Don't know if that works when they are older than 3 though!

meant to say lemon posset sounds yum! have put it in my notes to try.

My DD at 16 months knew exactly what I meant about sitting on bottom on sofa and was very complaint. My DS at 16 months is a tear away, he's no where near where my DD was at the same stage. My DD's fine motor skills were brilliant by 16 months, in fact she was only 17 months when DS was born and when I compare them I'm amazed how advanced she was compared to him. My Mum keeps insisting that girls do develop faster, I don't know, is it the fact she was first born though and I had more time for her ???

But they really are a completely different kettle of fish my 2 DCs.

Moose - Sorry this morning has been a bit rubbish

P.S. I'm going to tell H as he's going up to see his parents this weekend, to make it clear I'm not visiting them regularly up there and that they need to come to me

quite right tea. Stand your ground.

Books, sorry your morning has been stressful too. H is a hot person too, hence smelling like a hamster each morining. I think it's quite cute.

Like the DD rolling - that is really amazing!

120, we already do that I'm afraid. We make sure he is ready at least 20 minutes before we need to leave and then he sits and reads a book until its time to go. He is usually fine with actually leaving the house, its unstructured time he doesn't cope with.

Thinking back, there were lots of extra things to remember this morning (both boys had two letters and money to hand in, its viola lesson day for ds1 and ds2 needed to remember he is having a special school dinner, plus there were lots of extra bags of stuff that needed taking in to organise) so I think there was a slight lag in getting stuff together and getting out the door, which gave him time to get distracted.

Morning meltdowns are usually related to him wanting to do some unsuitable/lengthy game or activity before school and not liking being told no. So fairly typical 8 year old boy behaviour but a bit more complicated, rather than ASD stuff.

Books, sorry you had a crappy start to the day as well. Hope you have managed to recover now.

With the sofa sitting thing. In clicker training, you would start with a reward (so a book or favourite toy is perfect) and every time she sits nicely you would give her the book/toy. Then eventually, when you are getting a consistent correct response, you would start dropping the book from the process intermittently, maybe a book 4/5 times then 3/5 then 2/5 then go to only giving her a book completely randomly. By rights, if you were clicker training, you wouldn't say "would you like a book?" you would just give her the book as a reward every time she sat down so that she started to pair the action with the reward. Also, in theory, being told they are 'a good girl' is pretty rewarding to little ones in itself, so - again in theory - as long as its a strong enough motivator to please Mummy and get a 'good girl' strictly speaking the book shouldn't be necessary. That said, personally I think the book is still a great idea, as it will teach her to stay sitting, rather than getting up straight away.

Did any of that make sense? I know what I'm doing with operant conditioning, but find it hard to explain it to people without going into too much detail, getting to wordy and making it sound far more complicated than it actually is. (You know me, always 10 word when 1 will do ) Its really such a simple concept, its brilliant in its simplicity.

Oh and at forward roll - my two boys still can't do one of those!

You've got me thinking this morning actually. I have been musing on whether I could try using OC on ds1.

My thinking is, that he doesn't fully engage when being interacted with and tends to forget to do the same things repeatedly etc no matter how many times he's reminded. I'm wondering if, despite his lack of awareness/connection to other people, his subconscious could still make the necessary action = reward connections, if I for example gave him a simple reward every time he does something right. If so, in theory (there's that word again) I there is the possibility could try modifying some of his more problematic behaviours one at a time using OC.

I'm coming up against a problem with the things we have the most difficulty with though, like bringing homework home and handing it in. The reward needs to be instant to the action for him to pair the two, so, while it might be possible for me to give him a small treat if he comes out of the class with the correct homework, technically the reward is not instant to the action. Also, I can't reward him at all for handing stuff in on the right day, until he gets home and I find out he's done it.

We've done and do reward charts and stickers and they do help to some extent, but I think to be really effective, instant mini-rewards (eg one mint - ds1 adores mints) each time he gets something right might be more effective. In fact, I have been wondering whether the reason the star charts have failed to improve the handing-in/bringing-home homework problem is precisely because the reward isn't immediate to the action.

Am I just rambling complete nonsense here? Should I post in pets and see what other clicker trainers think? I know Karen Pryor (she wrote Don't Shoot The Dog) reckons you can train children and husbands using OC.

Hmm, with clicker training you never reward without the click (which signals the correct action) and never click without the reward iyswim. He already leave home with all the right books etc to hand in because I help him pack his bag after homework every night and then go through it all with him again in the morning. He also has a list in his diary and another in his bag telling him what he needs to remember that day and we read the list through together before he leaves for school every day. All to no avail, 9 times out of 10 he still doesn't hand things in. Its enough to make my head explode some days and is really difficult not to get cross because its not his fault, but the frustration levels are immense.

His teacher was supposed to set him up a visual timetable and a list of what he needs to bring in and take home each day to back up my lists. She was then supposed to prompt him to check the lists at the appropriate times. Well you guessed it - she hasn't even done the lists, despite my writing and complaining to the SENCO, her speaking to the teacher and then calling me to say she had assured her it was all in hand and they were going to get it done straight away.

That was the beginning of term and not one thing off his flippin' IEP has been actioned, other than the ones we are supposed to do at home (which we already did as a matter of course anyway). Its a tad frustrating to say the least.

He already has a list of things he is allowed to do in the morning and can choose any one of them. Unfortunately, it doesn't stop him going and getting something to do that we haven't agreed and isn't on the list, then having a complete meltdown when we say he can't do it.

I think you are right about the one thing at a time approach. Its made me feel a bit better about ds1 as well, in that I can deal with one thing at a time, its the whole picture that overwhelms me sometimes.

Crikey, look at the time! Where did today go. I have got almost nothing done other than a cursory tidy round and some washing up. Dd was in the bath for an hour because she desperately didn't want to get out and we have done a fair bit of reading and cuddling, but all the same I can't believe its almost time to fetch the boys already.

Can you put all the homework, clearly labelled, together in one folder so that the first teacher just takes the lot to the staff room and the other teachers just 'collect' theirs? The whole situation has my mind boggling. Have you thought about home ed?

oh dog - hope all ok and mw has got back to you!!

mm - hope u feel better soon

have had a good day saw dd1s teacher for a review she is doing well just needs to comunicate more in class
had sing and sign 2
also ordered online wooden train set for dd1s bday.

Dentist said the nerve isn't exposed and unless it goes brown/black it should be ok. She said if a gum boil appears above tooth, there's an abscess and it will need antibiotics. If he keeps getting abscesses (worst case scenario) he will need tooth out. As he's under age 5 they won't do a filling to make tooth look lovely and he'd have to go to hospital and be knocked out with a general anesthetic to have tooth removed. She said as he'll get adult tooth at age 6 basically no point in doing dental work at age 5. IYSWIM?

sounds logical to me tea. hello tinks.

can't believe we've filled up a quarter of the thread in 6 days.

Tea - my two are totally different too. DD was a lot quicker with listening especially, her talking took a fair while but she would follow instructions by now. She was generally calmer and quieter though. DS is a walking disaster zone, he breaks things constantly, is always splattering my kitchen walls with food and ruins clothes by tearing holes in them from his various calamities. I am assuming it is a boy thing. But I'm definitely a trillion times more relaxed with him which must make a difference. I do think I could stand him jogging on a treadmill all day and he would still have enough energy to cause chaos at bedtime.

Dog - any news? Hope you are okay.

HKZ - lots of hugs. Is it stopping you keeping food/fluids down? If it is go and see your midwife, they offered me anti sickness stuff with DS, I never took it as have had stomach ulcers from arthritis meds so not a good idea for me. Do work know now?

Best stop DS from stuffing left over black bean chilli in the washing machine drawer. How will I ever cope when he gets older? I think I best invest in some kind of industrial washing machine for all the mud and grime he is going to bring home.

Books, next year's teacher is the only male teacher in the school, is very down to earth and not very flexible. Ds has already had a major run-in with him earlier this year and his supply teacher had to run into the classroom and stand in between them as ds was so upset he was hyperventilating and she could hear the screaming from down the corridor. The whole thing was about ds's direct response to a specific question, which the teacher took as him being fascetious (sp?). I am dreading next year to be honest. That's why I wanted his diagnosis and school support nailed down by the end of this year, but by the time the assessment team see him it will be at least a year and a half from we first saw the GP and asked for a referral. He won't even be seen until he is 2/3rds the way through the next academic year.

Oh yes 120, I have thought about home-ed many a time, but in reality one of us would have killed the other by the end of the first day week! Ds1 needs the social/communication experience he gets from the school situation as well.

I already put his homework books in separate brightly coloured vinyl folders so that they are easy for him and his teachers to spot and in the vain hope seeing them in his bag would remind him to hand them in. The homework all needs to be in on separate days, which makes it ten times worse. We can't hand them all in at the same time as then we wouldn't have enough time to get some of the them done (they already give us less than a whole week per exercise). Its also complicated by his maths teacher only being there Mon-Wed and having no crossover with her job-share partner, so if he doesn't get his homework on the right day the second teacher doesn't know what it is let alone have a copy available for him to take home a day late. Also, if he hands it in late she doesn't have time to mark it before he needs his book back for the next lot. Its a nightmare.

OMG!!!! The boys just had a fight and ds2 swung ds1 into a cupboard - I THINK HE HAS BROKEN HIS NOSE!

I was on the phone to dh when they both came screaming down the stairs fighting, so I sent them both to sit on their beds and think. Fight started again on the way up the stairs and then ds1 screamed really loud and came careering downstairs with a swollen face and blood pouring out of his nose! Have stemmed the flow and he's holding frozen peas wrapped in a teatowel on it, do I need to do anything else?

Ds2 has been put to bed and dh is on his way home so we can go to A&E if necessary.

Apparently it all started because ds1 called ds2 a dumbo!

I totally give up on today!

Moose - hope DS1 ok. Not long until bedtime. Hugs.

No idea what to suggest with school other than chasing up GP about the referral to CAMHS. Our GP can now look on the hospital booking system to see when my consultant referrals and appointments have been made of where in the system we are, is quite handy when I'm waiting for things to come through from the hospital.