Discussion amongst Mums with babies born in December 2008

[Veggiemummy]

Hope you all can find it, Moms title was perfect I thought.

(Oops meant to add at the end ) instead of drawing on for experience and shared strength.

Yes, Veggie, I agree, we have all said it so many times on different topics. WHY do people feel the need to be judgy about other people's choices? WHY can't they accept them with good grace, if they are different to one's own? A natural home birth is not for me, even though I was born that way myself, which was what my Mum wanted. And Veggie was thrilled with hers as above. I don't feel threatened or criticised by her having that experience - far from it, I am delighted that you got what you wanted, Veg, and that everyone was safe and happy, just as I am sure you are about my consultant led elective cs, which is probably your idea of hell! I really am so grateful for everyone's support and tolerance of differing approaches on here. Especially when in RL, there are a lot of people out there who want to sneer at and deride other people's choices.

Oops, I am getting a bit serious for a Saturday morn! Must carry on with the tidying.

Exactly Lady. Do you know one of the best birth stories I've ever read was Verso's. I would love the bloglady to 'listen' to her birth story (elective c-section). It was honest, lovely and exactly what she wanted, what more could anyone want for another women.

Just spoke to my mum and told her we are staying until next August she was ok about it, I think she was expecting it. Also asked her if she wants to come for Christmas, which I think she liked.

Also interestingly she was telling me about a friend of hers whose husband has had a nervous breakdown and her daughters marriage has collapsed after their third childs birth. Her husbands health is really bad and he had to hospitalized on a recent trip abroad which after the insurance stuff was covered still cost them a fortune. The reason I'm telling you this is that this was a friend my mum was always very jealous of and compared herself too. They had loads of money perfect kids and great lifestyle. Mum has realised from this that you have to realise that what you've got is fine as long as your happy and the grass isn't always greener. Very sad for her friend though.

I also think that what you choose for your birth is absolutely none of anyone's business. It's a very personal thing and your choice entirely. It's your body and it's doing its job and how you choose to handle the pain (of which there is a lot!) is entirely down to the individual and the circumstances. I was all for pain relief and every form of drug in the world. But on the day, I could handle it and I was so lucky to have an easy birth. But until you've been through it, no one can pass judgement on it. And even when you have - you still have to respect each individual's choices. Grrr. Getting cross too.

Veggie - that's lovely for your mum to realise that, but sad for her friend. It's the sort of thing that puts life in perspective.

Beans I'm a bit grrr about it too but I think I have projected the person who said that thing about BFing til 6 months to WG onto this person, so I've made them the same person in my mind and I'm therefore doubly grrr at the poor women. Making me probably just ad judgemental.

Beans I think I've found you on FB so am about to request your friendship but will tell you who I am.

Go for it, Veggie!

Kayz seems v active on FB, so even if she's quiet on here, I think she's doing ok. Kayz - give us all a wave if you're lurking. x

Ha, ha, ha WG - just found that blog but didn't have much time to read. Nevertheless I noted her name. Then I was on FB and say that JJ had commented on your very cute pic of R and right under her comment was one from Ms Bloggate. She has the must smug FB profile pic I have ever seen. Made me chuckle.

Just had a very odd morning with two old friends on my mothers who I have not seen since she died as they are two Turkish women who live in Turkey. They got in touch as they are both in London for the day. They wanted to "see" my family which was a bit scary as I know they are quite judgemental and have very high standards for childrens' behaviour (I remember this from being a child myself). Anyway, full of trepidation I dragged DH and the girls along and the girls were so good. They were polite, funny, outgoing - must unlike themselves! I felt so proud almost as if by showing these old, old friends of my Mum I was showing them off to Mum herself. They kept going on about how proud she would have been which was lovely.

Ah, Aubs - that's so nice. And even if girls hadn't been on best behaviour, they'd have loved your little birds!

aubs that sounds like such a lovely morning you had! And well done to your girls. I often find its things like that that I dread that often turn out to be really good iyswim?

veggie that is so true about the grass not being greener. But very sad for your mums friend, its also such a shame that it usually takes something sad to make us see that though. Well, in my case anyhow!

Do you know I would never have seen myself having a cs. I had a water birth with only gas/air planned when I was pg with DD. I was so excited about it and how wonderful it was going to be. She ended up being an emergency cs, couldn't have been more different than I had planned. But then when I was pg with DS I realised that maybe I just wasn't quite cut out for a childbirth and so went for a cs again[wimpy emotion ]. Its unbelievable that any woman could judge someone over their birth choice. As long as all are safe and happy thats all that counts I think.

Zoo was great! Although we did tell DD she was having a surprise day out, which led her to think we were off to Minorca!! She wasn't disappointed though, although DS spent most of the day chasing bloody geese all over the place! I was going 'Look DS a lion' in a sappy voice and he was growling at geese and legging it after them

Right have lovely evenings, I'm waiting for my Chinese to be delivered......

I'm grrr with the rest of you on people who judge other people's birth choices. With DS I had planned a natural birth, but circumstances, and a f*ing large baby, meant that was not meant to be. Ended up with ventouse, cutting etc, and a narrowly avoided CS. Second time around I was more aware of the likely outcome and didn't want to go through the same pain and trauma again, so went for elective cs. I couldn't sit down/ walk properly for a year after having DS, and that was my own fault for being stubborn about the 'natural as possible' birth and refusing a cs. As a result I bonded with DD much quicker and was able to BF for longer also. DS had some pain in his shoulder so he couldn't feed on one side, so BF only lasted 3 weeks. Whereas DD I managed 12 weeks. I think what I'm trying to say is that you need to go with what is best for both of you and sometimes only restrospect is useful. ie, don't knock it until you've tried it!

Aubi, I am so pleased that turned out well. How lovely. I bet your Mum WOULD have been proud - super proud. How dear of them to want to see you all.

I find these birth stories very interesting (I enjoyed everyone's at the time). Gosh, Katie, I didn't realise you had had a vb with your DS1! Golly. That sounds tough, a year recovering. You see, I think a lot of mothers are very brave about such things and one would never know.

Sorry about your Mum's friend, Veggie. Bad times. And yes, you never really know what's going on behind the scenes of someone's life.

Funny about the zoo, Daisy Lions strolling around the place and they are most interested in the geese! Ain't that just kids.

I had a lovely time seeing my folks and it was ok with the friend of DP's there, though everyone was slightly quieter than they would normally have been. DD was in her element and really playing to the gallery and her cousins are so good with her and love playing and cuddling her, which I think for two boys of 17 and 13 is really impressive.

Beans and Kiwi, did you have fun?

Tonight's dvd from LoveFilm is Michael Clayton. DP ordered it, I hope it's good. He's not a good picker

We watched Blind side last night. I'm not a Sandra Bullock fan and it was a little bit 'American' (sorry Kimberley if your lurking) but I still quite enjoyed it. I think it was the guy who played the character of Michael he was just brilliant. Also it was easy to watch. I do find these days though that a lot films seem to not want to make the audience too uncomfortable so brush over difficult stuff

glad you had a nice day Lady.

Aubi that is lovely to meet those ladies. I hope one day to spend time with the girls my lovely friend who I mentioned recently and tell them about him. I am keeping photos I have of him for that reason.

Hi all

Kiwi and I had a lovely time and her DD is just heavenly! Such a cutie and totally unphased by my rather weedy DD weeping for the first half hour! To be fair, she had just woken up, but was totally shy and pathetic! But they seemed to really like eachother and were the most interactive I've ever seen DD with another baby. They were crawling round and round the chair chasing eachother and sharing DD's apple juice - handing the cup back and forth between them. AND they gave eachother several big kisses - very sweet of baby Kiwi as DD has a very snotty nose/face today! But it was truly sweet to watch. And lots of waving at eachother when it was time to go. Really enjoyed it - thanks for coming round Kiwi!

I've got Watchmen to watch on DVD but I can't quite be bothered. Going to send it back unwatched. Oh dear. Kiwi and I discovered that we've both got it on LoveFilm and we've both watched the first 20mins and then given up!

I'm off to bed now as been up for what seems like forever! Plus in my head it is now 10pm as am gearing up for tomorrrow! Plus I've got a brilliant bit of rubbish to read - Penny Vincenzi - The Best of Times - can't wait to get stuck into some chicklit!

Sleep tight.

Bugger we lose an hour tomorrow don't we.

We went to a huge open air Market today which has a city farm and huge ourdoor play area near it. We took DS1's bike with training wheels removed and with a broom handle shoved into the back (it's a Dutch thing) with us so he could have a go at trying to ride by himself and he did it!!! I really can't believe it, my boy is riding around all by himself. DH has taken the broom handle out now as it seems unnecessary. The loveliest thing is he is just so chuffed with himself. I'd prepped him beforehand about how it takes practice and it won't happen straight away and well he pretty much rode off. He described the moment he saw his shadow riding beside him and DH wasn't holding the broom handle and then realised he was riding all by himself. I asked him how he felt then and he said 'brave & strong' both DH & I almost cried.

DS2 of course enjoyed the cityfarm he is really obsessed with animals esp big ones like cows. He had a good chat to a cow called Bessie today and fed some goats. He was standing talking to the cow and a nearby sheep went 'baaaa' he swung around and glared completely baffled at it, and seemingly a little bit annoyed as it had interrupted his conversation with Bessie. He walked up to the sheep and stared at it a bit menacingly then walked back to Bessie.

What a lovely afternoon Beans and Kiwi had with with their little fruit and vegetables

I won't add anything to the comments on our choice for birth, as you've all said it perfectly. But Veggie thank you for admitting that at times you were scared witless, I chose an epidural because I had reached that point and being continually monitored meant I felt I'd lost control - but now knowing that I wasn't likely to remain in control throughout anyway gives me confidence that in future I could maybe go further on my own. Thank you

Lol Im having a real giggle about the little fruit & veg. Those 2 did sound very cute.

I def felt very out of control and very freaked out by it all. I found this a lot harder than any discomfort.

Hey, ZJ, Veggie and Beans! Beans, that sounds v cute. Veggie, I have some more stuff for your DS1 (and a little something for you), I really must take it up to the Post Office. That is so cool about the bike.

'Michael Clayton' was a good thriller, actually! I found it hard to follow at first and got annoyed (I am ALWAYS like that with thrillers) but it was a real gripper in the end.

I think I am going to join you with the reading in bed, Beans. I'm whacked. I'm reading a good book at the moment (by Richard Yates who wrote Revolutionary Road) but it's a bit depressing.

I feel really tense and anxious tonight and my shoulders are in a total knot. I don't know why. I had a lovely day, and we are going round to nice friends for lunch tomorrow. All should be good. But there is a cloud round my head. Maybe it's the crazee hormones. Night all.

I keep reading and failing to post! And then of course I forget what I was going to say. Anyway I hope you are all well and as happy as anyone who's had an hour STOLEN can be. Damn BST.

I had a lovely birthday evening, DH raided Waitrose for supper and we watched an Ealing film about the Blitz. Surprisingly cheery. Also had a good giggle over some of the job applications DH has been sifting through (he's getting someone in to help - first employee trauma). Top tip: when applying for a job, don't send in samples of your poetry.

Birth stories: with DS2 I was interested to read michel odent's theory about fear being a necessary reflex to get the baby out. I certainly panicked both times in transition, and I would have said DS2's birth was a calm experience overall. It is such an verwhelming experience which is why I shudder at first timers confidntly claiming they can get through on aromatherapy and whale song. I mean you might manage it but then if you end up with a more medical birth (gen for very good reasons) you're setting yourself up for feelings of guilt and failure. Even the easiest birth is shattering (ime) but then you don't want to panic first timers by telling them this!

rubena I have a v boring q about carpet shampooers. I'm thinking of hiring one again as our downstairs carpets are filthy, but could really do with cleaning them properly more often. Which one do you have and wd you recommend it?

Hello everyone,

WG Is this the same friend who was all about you BF? Honestly, people should just keep their opinions to themselves! I enjoyed veggie's response!

trace Your cycles were totally crazy. I thought my cycles were long. I remember having one period in a year at one point. Mine have been better since DD too. What are you up to, burping aside?

daisy Sorry about your grandad. He sounds amazingly strong. At the zoo but chasing geese! Very funny.

aub How lovely to see your mum's friends. Glad your girls were so beautifully behaved.

zoe How exciting, more additions to the family is always lovely.

veggie Wow on the bike riding. Brave and strong - it almost made me cry.

ladyT Sounds like a lovely day. Did you manage to keep your news under wraps?

kiwi and beans What fun your LOs had together . Very cute.

effie Samples of poetry! What's the job? Not assistant poet, I presume!

spot How were the seagulls this morning? The darker morning did the trick with the geese.

The cat scratched DD on the face yesterday morning. I moved her away from him three times and as I was distracted.... Anyway, it isn't too bad but she has three distinct scratch marks down her forehead and nose. It hasn't put her off trying to grab the cat at every opportunity either. Something always seems to happen when DH is away, he probably thinks I'm careless. Oh well, DD and I have amused ourselves very well this weekend with a trip round the city art gallery yesterday and a stroll today. I love that she is becoming a proper little person.

hello
I love ZJ's description of babybeans and babykiwi as little 'fruit and veg'! So cute!
ladyt are you feeling any less tense and knotty today? Glad your family had a good time.
JB sorry to hear about L's scratch It'll soon heal. It sounds like you've had a lovely ladies' weekend with her
veggie your strong, brave boy is amazing. You have every right to be soppy and proud My uncle taught me to ride by attaching a broom to my bike - in Sussex not Holland!
I've no idea what everyone is talking about with bloggate. It seems I've missed something major, but that's often the case with me so I won't even try to figure it out!
Well things here are good. I'm feeling much better than 2 weeks ago - not sure what tipped me over but I'm back on my feet again now I totally forgot about the clocks changing . P woke at 5.30 but had a little feed and went back to sleep till 6.20, so I got up, then L got up. It was dh who asked about the clocks several hours later, but fortunately we still got to church on time!
P is getting rather stroppy at times, lying down and yelling in protest when things don't go her way - and we even introduced naughty corner this weekend! Not sure quite how much she understands, but I think it's important for L to see that P can't get away with things like hair pulling. She's mega cute though so it's so hard to be cross with her!
Lu's poo problem seems to be getting worse She had 3 sloppy poos today and was up at about 3am for one as well. I've decided to start keeping a food diary in case they would be interested when she sees the consultant in a month's time.
I'm having a stupid moment of stupidness. I have a ridiculous unfeasable notion that I might be pregnant. Reasons for thinking it: belly looks bigger, needing to pee lots, more discharge than normal , feeling a bit dizzy, achy lower back, wanting fruit (previous pregs I wanted fruit!). Reasons why it clearly isn't that: I had a period 2 weeks ago, I've hardly had any sex and when we have we've used condoms.
So, I think it's more likely that I'm constipated causing most of the symptoms, a bit viral causing the others, and imagining the rest!
Anyway I'll try not to think about it and wait for AF, who may turn up any time within the next few months, given her usual irregularity!
I took some lovely pics of my girls earlier so will put a couple on my profile. L doesn't normally look quite so rabbit-like!

oh and today when I was taking P's tights off I thought "these are getting a bit small", checked the label and they are 0-3 months! No wonder they're a bit little for my 15 mth old

Hi Jolly. Yeah it's great when they are like this now, I always feel like I'm going places with a little mate. DS1 is still like a little mate he helps me buy clothes and loves going for coffees. It's like I have created these 2 little friends.

We did Ikea today. We are getting quite good at it these days. Arrive drop off DS1 at the play thing, grab stuff and write down rack & isle numbers, go to cafe, pack car home. As per usual we found all sorts of stuff we didn't know we needed, inc a British bulldog for DS2 which is as big as him and twice the price we thought it was.

Oh Xposted Trace, I know what you mean about disciplining the little ones infront of the big ones. I have to stifle a giggle when I say 'babyveggie stop doing that to veggieboy' and DS2 just looks at me completely baffled then carries on with whatever he was doing to annoy DS1. DS1 usually ends up saying 'it's ok mummy I don't mind' and abandons what he was doing for something else.

Katie it appears we may have a similar bullying thing going on with DS1. He doesn't seem to bothered by it but it came out today that a boy at school hit him and his friend who speaks to him in English. We've talked to him about what he wants to do about it and hr wants us to talk to the teacher and he knows when the boy hits or pushes him he has to say 'niet doen'. We also said he does need to start trying to use his Dutch a bit more. I def don't agree with bullying based on racism (or any bullying for that matter) but I think DS1 does need to try speaking Dutch a bit more and he wants to, but because his little friend speak English he doesn't really need to.

Oh and Trace, bloggate was that women who is a friend of WGs DH and she had a blog. Anyway a while back I think when we were still antenatal she wrote in her blogg about our WG and was a bit mean about her. Nowdays she's being a bit all high and mighty.