DEC 08 - Barely into toddlerhood and already at our tit's end

[MomOrMum]

Tit's end...had to be done.

Hope this works!

Kayz, I'm so sorry to hear about your DHs job. I've got my fingers and toes crossed something comes up for you and you can throw in your notice. And go for DC3 too.

Trace hope you are OK, and you too Aub. I would imagine the days seem like an age at the moment. I'm still BF by the way, doesnt feel wierd to me, though I have to admit I dont do it in front of anyone else now though, for some reaosn.

LadyT I feel like I could write an essay on being a working parent. I've found it very hard, and Kayz I sympathise with how you feel as I spent the whole night crying before I went back after Xmas, DH was really shocked. I'm in a position where I'm the academic one (in that I've spent time and money earning qualifications), with a permanent job, pension and perks (working from home and flexible working), and before I had kids I loved it. Whereas DH hates his job, is a lot less secure and was never career minded. Therefore although I might want to give up my job, it probably wouldnt be best for me or anyone else in the long term, as I'm the main earner and career person, and we would seriously be on the breadline. I mean seriously. Which I think would add so much more stress in itself. While I'm on maternity leave I feel quite isolated and a bit lonely, and adult company and a life away from being a mum is a good thing about working. I feel both the children and I benefit from time away from eachother, (ie DS1 can build a tower without DS2 obliterating it) and we value our company all the more as a result.

However, when the boys got the pox and I knew I had at least 3.5 weeks at home with them, I felt so much happier. Suddenly we could sit on the sofa all morning watching the gruffalo, or just hang out and do nothing all day because we had days and days stretched out ahead of us in which to do stuff in. This made me realise just how much guilt I feel for putting them in nursery, and how much pressure I put on myself on how to spend the time we do have together. I'm a lot less willing to have a day out at the weekend on my own or without them, as I feel I owe them that time. And dont get me started on packing bags, pre-cooking dinners, finding time to do the washing and keeping the house from becoming a pit, when you are working

So at the moment I think if I could be a SAHM I would probably be a lot happier, although I would need to make a concious effort to get out and make some new friends. I dont feel I'm damaging my children by them being in childcare, though, its more about my feelings, IYSWIM. I feel like I'm doing the best thing for them as in a few years time I can still be in a flexible and well paying job, rather than trying to re-enter the job market. And being a bit miserable now will mean I am happier then (hopefully), while if I give up work, the reverse might be true.

I was expecting the broodiness to have passed by now but I think we might go for a third. I wonder if this might help, it doesnt yet feel like my family is complete. But then being confused and emotional is my normal state at the moment I'm going for a counselling session next week so will see how that goes.

Rub Enjoy the scan ! DH missed our 12 week with DC2 because DS1 was yelling and trying to empty the waste paper bin

Oh, hello Tortoise!

NJAN - you are so eloquent. i've just read some of your post out to my dh as an example of how someone feels about the whole working v not working mother thing.

have been in tears all eve. for a while now, madam wakes up from every nap in tears,crying and screaming and refuses to be calmed for up to an hour. especially after the last nap of the day. i've lost all confidence in how to help her/know what to do. today i gave her milk and a biscuit/ took her upstairs to play with water in the sink/ watched the birds flying over the garden/ put all her stacking cups in a bag so she could empty them - none of this worked. at 6.10 - a full half an hour before normal bedtime she was screaming and pointed at the yellow cushion is bf her on and so i bf her, then we had the bath, then put her to bed early. i can almost guarantee you she will wake at 5.30 tomorrow morning. this child does not sleep in ever. have now missed my favourite yoga class as i've been crying too much and need to get it out of my system.

i've got work preparation hanging over me, the incesant and unrelenting pressure of cooking for madam, even when she rejects the food i cook for her. am now sitting here with second glass of red wine (procured by dh), even though i had vowed to only drink at weekends - it is helping.

another question... you can tell i'm feeling insecure - there are lots of questions coming... how much tv do your babes watch/have on? i am a bit of a telly addict (not in that i watch that much, but that i have it on in the background a lot of the time). i know, i know, it's not supposed to be good for the babes, but sometimes i need it for me - just to take the edge off the day (i sound like an alcoholic), especially if it is super early, or late afternoon. dh has told me he thinks we need to restrict it. the thing is, it can really calm madam down when she is feeling rubbish - the only time she's been properly ill, she sat on my lap, cuddling me and watching cbeebies for 2 hours while she fought off a fever. as i am the one who looks after her most, i can only feel this as a rebuke and reprimand for being so rubbish with her. but the thing is, he doesn't have to spend 12/14 hours a day with her most days of the week.

anyway, i'm wibbling and i must drink more so i feel better and go to sleep.

oh, and kayz - so sorry to hear about the mix up in your and dh's jobs. hopefully he'll find something else soon.

Thanks NJAN, that's really interesting. It must be very hard to get everything done. I don't manage to do everything I need or want to, by a long chalk, and I have much more time.

I am just mulling it all over in my mind. I will have to get a day job eventually, unless I can make a decent living from grubbing together my bits of writing (which I can just about do and look after DD at the same time).

Gosh, I am so HUNGRY. I won't even tell you what I am having for supper (suffice to say it involves a lot of boiled cauliflower) and I bet I still won't lose any weight this week. Anyway, won't bore the Thinnifers

Aw, WG, I am so with you on the food thing. DD has really picked up and stopped pouching her food but she is not what you'd call an enthusiastic eater. If I didn't coax stuff in she wouldn't bother, so mucho sympathy there.

Telly - DD watches Night Garden only, if at all, and I only have the telly on sometimes around ten in the morning for up to an hour - otherwise I get sucked in to all those house programmes. However, I think telly is only really bad if babies aren't also talked to and engaged with a lot, and yours clearly is, so I wouldn't worry a bit. If it helps YOU, ultimately it helps her, surely? Also, I watched loads of telly as young child (as much as I could) and I haven't turned into a delinquent with the concentration span of a housefly or whatever else is supposed to happen to you. Also my nephews watched a stack of telly as littlies and two nicer, cleverer lads you couldn't find

Kayz I'm really sorry for you. That is so miserable - and can't be right. Surely they can't retract an offer like that? Really hope he finds something else.

As far as work goes.... I went back full time when DS was 1 and DH was at home with him. I didn't really like that to be honest - although it was utterly brilliant for them, and for our relationship that DH was the first parent for a bit - 5 days a week was too much time away from DS for me. Nor did I like being at home all the time and doing nothing else - I think it's hard with just one baby that doesn't talk to you though. This time it's taken me months to get into it but at the moment three days is perfect. I have a really interesting job, that I love, somewhere I've worked for aeons so I know them, and they know me and it's all very comfortable and easy. And on Wednesday night I get to finish for the week and really enjoy my time with the DCs. I'm very lucky. But we've also all settled down with the nanny so that makes a real difference. I worked it out the other day though and in terms of money it's hardly worth me working. I just want to keep my hand in really though so when they're at school I'll be able to step up a bit.

LadyT I'm sorry about the row. DH and I don't row but in a way that is really hard too - he just goes very distant. I know what you mean about repeating the pattern though. His Dad is very taciturn. We both have parents with very happy marriages so are lucky in that way, but still I think there are many models of happiness. Although my ex-H's parents had both been married 3 times (and reader, I still married him).

Aub - only 1 day to go. And don't listen to anyone about bfding. I think it's fantastic to be doing so at this age. And when DD is ill I wish I still was . It's very special.

Spot - am of 4 days in iceland.

Thankyou WG !, I've had those concerns with food and TV, but now I am trying to stop worrying partly for the reasons LadyT said - firstly my diet was more restricted than theirs is when I was growing up (as poverty-stricken vegetarians in the 70s/80s,) but I eat a wide range of things now, and as long as they get a bit of everything, you cant force it, and getting them to have a good attitude to food is perhaps equally important.

Mine have TV on in the morning often, and in the evening before bed sometimes. And sometimes during the day if weather is bad and we need some downtime. (for 1 postman pat or something). I dont worry about it too much, as when they are this young they seem to self limit to a certain extent and get bored after 30 mins, and if it is on, we watch it together. So today for example, the conversation went :

-So do you think what Postman Pat did was sensibe just then ?

-DC1, "No"

-And do you think that that is a good robot ?

-DC2 "No it is a very silly robot and if it was mine I would tell it off"

Many of my chilhood memories consist of us kids watching TV together (the A-team featured quite a lot in our house, sadly, along with Robin of Sherwood and the Saturday Night Action Movie), and I think it can be a good thing as a shared activity.

sorry x-posts I started to write that hours ago..wg whatever makes it easier for you. Yes if you stick your child in front of the TV for endless hours that is A Bad Thing. But mine watch about 45 mins a day. And sometimes much more if they or I are past it. If a chunk of TV helps you to be happier for the rest of the time then do it. Most of the people who make grand pronouncements about limiting TV have never stayed at home with children full time and don't know just how mind numbing it can be. We didn't have a TV when I was growing up and it's just made me love TV even more as an adult.

DS has learnt all his numbers from cbeebies and has learnt to tell the time from watching the clock until he's allowed to have it on. He told me this evening that he loved television (I love you mummy, and daddy, and fancy, and television) . Perhaps I'm not the right person to advise...

Urbane I work 4 days and I think 3 would be much better. And also a nanny sounds like a better idea so we dont have to rush out of the house in the morning. How do you find a good nanny though ?

Gosh I leave you lot for 24hrs and you tot up 2 pages!

I have lots I have been thinking of along the way as I've read but I'm not sure I can remember it all.

WG I used to put DS1 in the back garden to sleep in his pushchair. That way I could watch telly clean the house without waking him. Also I saw driving around the streets while DS2 continued to sleep as a way to listen to some music I liked, even went to a macdonalds drive through once to get a coffee. Also we have 3 songs that magically seem to calm DS2 in the car (I do know the screaming you mean, almost takes away your will to live, not good whilst at the wheel), these are, kookaburra sits in the old gumtree, row your boat, and a song composed for DS2 by DS1 called Jordi don't cry. It goes, Jordi, don't cry, jordi, don't cry, jordi don't cry, all the world agrees. Repeated continuously for entire trip or Jordi asleep, whichever comes first. All three songs must be sung as loud as possible and by every person in the vehicle.

I'm still BFing, in the morning at night and once for a day nap and occasionally in the afternoon. I think I need to give him more water as I think he wants BM when he's thirsty and I'm a but crap at giving him water. I also figure it's hydrating and way better than water. However, I did have a home birth and we all know that I wear sandals. I do get a little self conscious in public though. Less so over here. But yesterday we went to a soft play (never again on a Sunday afternoon) DS2 was really aggitated and wanted a feed so I just sat in front of everyone feeling a little self concious as he is quite big now and had just walked the full length of the place. Anyhoo, whilst feeding I noticed a baby about DS2's age standing precariously on a chair whilst it's mum was looking in another direction playing with her mobile. The baby was sucking on a bottle with what looked like red squash or maybe ribena in it. Now I know lots of people do this but I just thought, that baby sucking on that bottle is seen as more socially acceptable than me BFing mine. So sod it, I'm BFing mine when and where he wants it. He is happy I'm happy and i'm not doing him any damage and according to research that has influenced the WHO I'm actually doing his and my future health a greatservice.

Right now where was I, oh Kayz I'm sure that not right, where is Spiggy when we need her, I think DH needs to talk to someone. Also doesn't he have IT skills, could that help with a job?

Daisy sorry about your DH, plus this whole wheezing thing can't be helping him.

Aub hope your LO is improving and not long now, have been thinking about you.

Gosh sorry this is a long message but DH is setting up our Internet so have been catching up and also can't send this til he has it on.

Had a bad day today, DS2 has teeth coming, or a virus or something as he was in a foul mood. I gave in and fed him on the couch at 9.30 2 hrs before his usual nap time and he slept for 2 hrs on my lap. Actually that bit was quite nice as I had a book close to hand but had so much I could have been doing. Anyway then before picking up DS1 (who was slightly better going to school but still pulling at my heartstrings) I took DS2 to get done shoes i've held off cos are so expensive here and DS1 used to need a new pair every 6-7 weeks. He really did not like trying on the shoes and kept curling up his feet. Anyway eventually he relented and he was much happier later when he walk around the playground but they cost ?50! That is the average price for a pair of baby shoes here! His shoes cost twice what DS1's cost in the UK and they are not even half the size!

Anyway after that we went to get some shopping and I carried DS2 in as I had brought him in the bike trailor and of course we got stuck in the cue with the women who is unhappy with what she has been charged for her big hunk of meat and tomatoes. Instead of move her to another check out to sort it they just left us all waiting! DS2 felt so heavy I tried putting him down but the check out was near the door and he kept trying to make for freedom. To top it off I decided to treat myself to a chocolate bar (all this G&B talk). It was called Bros and was a Dutch chocolate so thought I would have something from my latest fostered country, only to find when I wentbto open it that it is made by bloody Nestle!

Anyhoo I have ranted, just thought I would end with saying thankyou for being so open NJAN. I know how you feel I often think I should work because I'm a nurse and they are needed, or because it a good example to the boys or just because to be in the adult world but I think these feelings are better left for now and I need to accept my decision. I think our own uncertainty and feeling of guilt can affect our LOs but I don't think nurseries or CMs or nannies can. All that research they put out is just there to add to our guilt, and keep us from realising how amazing we really are. If collectively all mothers realized their true power wouldn't we be a force to be reckoned with!

Gosh there is so much I want to comment on here but I am going to restrict myself to TV and being a working mum (because typing on my phone takes an AGE).

TV - I am a total television addict and regret how much of my life I spend watching it (yet do little to address that). DD1 has always been entranced by the TV and from the age of 10 months it has been a guaranteed way to keep her quiet and still. I often found it v tempting to use it as a babysitter so I could get stuff done. From the age of 1.5 to 2.5 we got into a routine of watching the beftime hour from 6-7pm and DD went ballistic if this routine was varied. It got a bit sad as she wouldn't interact with me if it was on and it spanned the hour I was home from work before her bedtime. I also found many tantrums in her terrible twos were about wanting more TV. So in May 09 I banned all TV for 4 months. It was amazing, DDs behaviour improved, she learnt to amuse herself for hours, I was amazed at the difference the ban made. Now it's winter and the ban is over but I have never let TV become part of the routine again so DD1 doesn't expect it at any given time andthisvrefucrs tantrums. Some days I let her watch an hour or two, othercdays nothing. I use it when I need a break or she needs a rest and it def plays a useful role.

Re work - hmmm. At the moment I am loving thework home balance but it took a while to get here. Before DCs I was dedicated to work. Then I had DD1 and I loved my maternity leave. Ifound my three day a week return v hard. I felt I was missing all the fun of work (the social side, the extra projects, the respect) because I was cramming fulltime responsibility into 3 days and rushing everything. I missed DD1 and wanted to be home.

Things were different with DD2, I found my maternity leave harder because a toddler and a baby felt unrelenting at times. Going back to work has made me enjoy my days at home more as I have variety in life. I work fulltime hours compressed into four days so am properly renumerated for my efforts ridding me of all resentment. I have no guilt about leaving the girls because they love the nanny & can be in their own home and have friends round etc. The nanny also eradicated any stress about what to do if they are ill etc which I find invaluable. I am also lucky to have long holidays so I always have a nice stretch of family time somewhere on my horizon. Sorry for the essay but to summarise I love being a working mum thanks to great childcare.

Gosh sorry that was really long.

Just wanted to quickly add, WG TV is a part of popular culture, think of you childhood and the shows you used to watch, also the amazing movies you have seen. TV is not some big bad orgre turning our children into zombies it's a part of our culture. Just as kids shouldn't spend every minute of the day playing sport or the piano or reading a book they shouldn't watch TV all day. Any activity carried out to the exclusion of others is not a you'd thing but carried out for a reasonable time it's fine. Plus cbeebies is great. DS1 developed his love of numbers from the Numberjacks and he gets great ideas from MrMaker and I'm always surprised when he remembers the steps he needs to do to make the things Mr Maker makes!

Aub that's very clever about breaking the routine for TV to stop tantrums. DS knows he's allowed it at 5:45 - but only for a couple of programmes that we have on the sky+ and we all watch together. He thinks I love chuggington. Which is very sweet really. But we did run into trouble when I started letting him watch thomas in the morning too - and used the holiday to stop that.

My work bit sounded unbearably smug, sorry. All about to come crashing down around my ears in May when i) my current job will probably finish and ii) the lovely friend I share the nanny with sends her DD to nursery and I have to either work more hours or find another family to do the other two days. Njan a nanny is really good for us because I am crap and disorganised and would find the pressure of getting to and from nursery at an exact time unbearable. She also tidies up, and cooks for us occasionally and does the DCs washing. You probably won't remember but I spent most of October and November fretting about whether she was right and whether we had done the right thing. I think partly it's relief that it's settled down that makes me very happy with it now. I also have a very understanding and accommodating DH who really does share responsibilities with me so some days he gets back, and I go out and have a shadow of what it was like in days before DCs.

I am waiting for the 4th batch of mini cupcakes to come out of the oven. I had a complete yorkshire moment when I discovered how much it would be to get 120 mini cupcakes for the soft play party from hell birthday bash DS and his little mates are having on Sat. So decided to make them. Which was completely stupid.

hey just a quick post. P is in hospital because her temp won't go down. She's had some blood tests and we're waiting for results and staying here for at least tonight. Poor P is so lethargic and hot. At least it takes my mind off all this CPN business...
Am logged on the ward computer (all one system with my work one!) but better go.
Sorry to neglect the personals but feeling a bit naughty being on here
WG chin up. You are FAB!!!! Please don't lose your confidence.

Oh trace. thinking of you all and hope she had an ok night xx

Trace I hope P is better this morning.

DH is ringing round all the factories today to see if anyone has anything going. So I am hoping to come home at 4 and find he has got a new job.

Hope everyone is ok.

Oh Trace, I really, really hope P is OK. Thinking of you and keeping everything crossed. XXXXXXX

Trace I hope that P has got better overnight

trace - thinking of you - hope P gets better super soon

trace . I hope P has had a reasonably settled night. I will say a prayer for you all. Much love x

Trace: hope P had a good night and is recovering. Thinking of you.

Aub: when does DH get back? You have done an amazing job keeping things together over the past few days, esp with DD1 being poorly. You are def due some 'you' time!

Kayz: good luck to your DH for the job search.

Telly: we are freaks without a proper tv but we do watch a fair amouint on the computer (mainly dvds for DS1). I do fiund too much tv gets him pretty hyper so like Aub we try not tp make it part of his routine. But am happy to put it on to get through difficult patches. I often come in from work to find the DSs in front of Chigley while DH is collapsed in his chair!

Working: had a wobbly moment this morning when DS1 said 'don't go to work today Mummy' . But in general I'm happy working p/t, though 4 days is more tricky than 3. I find I'm happier at work with 4 days cos I can actually get things done, but it means less time at home (obv) and keeping on top of housework/laundry/bags/lunches is a bit of a nightmare. And I have DH to do the drop offs and pick ups. If we had another (cue hysterical laughter) I would def think about getting a nanny.

BF: amn still feeding morning and night and occasionbally during the day. Was going to post a rant about how great it was to be still bfing but realised that I do stupidly feel self-conscious about bfing in public now DS2 is bigger. So a good reason to keep bfing is that it helps all of us to feel it is a bit more normal! I find it so helpful to be able to talk on here about (e.g.) cutting down night feeds without looks of frozen horror.

Trace How is P? DD has something very similar and I was just coming on to ask for advice, so forgive the lack of personals, no time to catch up

DD has been ill on and off now for a week. She had conjunctivitis (now fine) and a temp last wednesday adn was sent home from nursery. She was ok on Thursday then sent home again on Friday and ever since then her temp has been going up and down. This morning it was 39. I took her to the doc yesterrday and there was no sign of any obvious (ear, throat) infection. I just wondered if you guys would tell me what you would do - if it goes up any more should I take her back to the doctor, or to hospital? Is there anything else I can do to help her other then calpol/calprofen? She's BFing pretty much constantly (ow) but that's fine in my book as it means she's getting fluids. She's sleeping LOADS more than usual - 13, 14 hours at night and two naps, even three naps a day. But when she's awake I wouldn't describe her as lethargic. Just wants to cling on to me, but alert etc.

Advice/ suggestions much appreciated, thank you x

Morning ladies, and a special hello to Trace at her covert postion at the nurses station (cheeky) you know we are all thinking of you and I think I'm not the only one here who feels you are doing surprisingly well coping with poor little P when your CPN wants you to see the psych. I personally think you are doing well with all the PND and 2 kids and new job. I think as someone else mentioned they would be better giving you some help at home and keep you at work surely.

Aub that was very interesting about the TV. We tend to not watch tele near bedtime, mainly because we have one of those stupidly big plasma TVs and I read in some green parent magazine once that the light given off so close to bed can effect their sleep. We also go for the sky+ shows then they stop and are finished and DS1 seems to accept that. I know DS2 will watch a lot more TV at a younger age than DS1 did but it's a bit difficult to stop that I think. Urbane that is so cute about Chuggington, DS1 used to call Underground Ernie 'our show' which was ironic as I could stand it, but was cute anyway.

Speaking of TV I got the major grumbles with DH this morning. I have a well run morning routine with the boys up, breakfast, get dressed, teeth brushed, coats on into the trailer-school. In between I get dressed and make DS1's lunch. We are well run machine and we are up and our the door in under 40 mins. However, this morning DH left later for work later than usual at 8.30 so he was around to help with the morning routine. I have noticed when he is around it doesn't run so smoothly but this morning he was super naughty. As he had gotten the Internet up and running lastnight he thought it would be nice for DS1 to watch Show me, show me...first thing this morning. So he let him watch it while he ate his breakfast which of course meant he took forever to eat breakfast and get dressed so we ended up having to rush out the door which made DS2 grumpy and cry and....well it was just so annoying. I told DS1 that no more TV in the morning so now I look like the nasty one.

But on a happy note, although DS1 fell over at school yesterday sustaining a tiny enormous graze which is causing the poor pup to walk with a terrible limp. Despite that he now is suddenly very happy to gobti school. The reason, a women of course. He apparently has a girlfriend a girl called Zoe who had asked him to marry her. She is half philipino and speaks English. She used to ignore him but now saves a seat for him and they are quite in love.

Kiwi: depends on your local hospital, I think. I've always been advised to take babies directly to A&E if worried - but if the waiting room is full of people with swine flu or vomiting children I'd prob think twice! If her temp goes up again and doesn't come down with calpol/ibuprofen (are you alternating doses?) then I;d take her in. Poor bean - hope she feels better soon.

Trace, hope by the time I post this that P is tons better. How scary for you.

Kiwi, I would say that if her temp goes up more I would call the doctor or NHS direct to see what they say. Unless she becomes lethargic like P I would not take her straight to hospital, though DP probably would. Hope she feels better soon.

Kayz, hope your DH can find something.

Off to Oxford today, but more later.