April 2009 - Episode 10 - Christmas time!! we can all drink wine, while children gurgle nursery rhymes, with logs in their nappies, and pee by the tree fun will be had by baby and me!!

[SantasNutts]

here we go then Merry Christmas One and all!! xxxxx

Yay Bicnod! You must feel like a new woman. Amazing how much better the world looks with a decent night's sleep under your belt

Morning everyone - last night back to waking frequently I'm afraid.

This To Shall Pass.

Yay for Bicnod!

FerventlyHopingTiggaxx

Last night worwst of the lot, i felt like poop, she wouldnt sleep, then when she did had to change her before we out her in her bed (no DP, we cant just leave her in a dirty nappy...no!) then woke at 5 for a shout and then 8.30 for a bottle, didnt have the whole lot...now has worked out there is an xmas tree in the living room and if she shakes the wood and glass table enough, the star falls off the top! i would be angry but she looks so sweet its hard to stay that way for very long!!

ho hum!

WFH - you've been quoted on this thread!!

No epiphanies.

But I am getting very philosophical. The situation many middle class women seem to graduate towards is SAHM, because it's less hassle, they miss their kids, etc etc.

Which raises lots of questions for me.

1. Why educate women and talk about equality when the reality is that equality for many of us means fitting into a bloke's world, even still (i.e. 9-5 work as a norm with no kids in tow, limited holidays, etc), with the only alternative being muumytracking by doing a badly paid job that is too easy for us, or working flexible hours for a while but then taking a big hit on pensions and promotions later on down the line?

1. What sort of world is it where you can be at the top of the lecturer payscale and have eight degrees and diplomas and 20 years' experience yet make a LOSS going to work after childcare costs and petrol? And I don't even have twins or anything like that.

1. Does the Western world secretly want women at home in fluffy cardigans busy washing nappies (sorry WFH) and spending their husband's money rather than asking awkward questions in boardrooms?

1. It seems to me journalists and ex-journalists spend a lot of time telling us what to think and then making a heap of money on the back end of it (sorry MN founders and their spouses) but nobody is dealing with the core problem - A LOT OF FAMILIES ARE A LOT MORE OVERWORKED AND KNACKERED THAN THEY EVER WERE AND IT'S GETTING RIDICULOUS. Why is this? My grandmothers certainly did not get up at 5, and roll into bed at 11.30 after reading a load of work papers and running a house. And they had more disposable income than I do. WHAT IS GOING WRONG WITH THE WORLD?

Boff - good points.

I am going back to work in 6 weeks and have no illusions on the difficulties that it will face for me. No I won't get the promotion I would have got if I hadn't of had DD. I certainly would have got it last year. No, I won't be able to decide to meet friends after work and go out without thinking of anyone else. No, I won't be better off. Yes, I am worse off and probably, financially back in the place I was 6 years ago, probably worse. I will more than likely be worse off than I was when I was on the dole and struggling. I won't be considered for a promotion until I can commit with the rest of the team and go back to doing my 13 day fortnights.

The new government initiative to get mothers back into the workplace within a given time frame is not thought out. The workplace is not flexible to allow part time work without it thinking that it compromises (sp?) the actual work that you will be able to do, therefore placing alot of families on a level of income far lower than they are able to survive. Childcare (certainly in London) is vastly overinflated and people have to decide whether to stay at home or to work.

Feminism was all about choice, but that seems to have gone to the wayside. I do not have the choice. I have to work. The majority of my wages will go on childcare, then on "living" expenses. After that, who knows.....but at least I have choice eh??

Well the choice thing assumes we are all rational actors intelligently navigating our way through public and private provision to our advantage.

Yet the Government/Civil Service meddles away and pays little regard to the consequences for the rest of us. Minimum wage? Sounds great, doesn't it, but it basically doubled the cost of childcare practically overnight. Inspection and red tape? Makes children safer, doesn't it? Well, sometimes, but again, it pushes the costs of provision through the roof. Sure Start? Improving social mobility can't be bad, can it? Well yes it can, if you artificially skew the market, force the local private nurseries out of business, and then pull out funding from the Sure Start centre after three years so that closes too. Flexible working? Has to be a good thing, doesn't it? Well no, if your key employees are missing from the workplace half the time when you most need them.

The harsh reality is that there are no simple solutions, or not any cheap ones anyway.

One thing I have come to think is that benefits for families need to be universal and consistent so that people can plan. The current patchy system where you have to apply for things which you might or might not get, and which may or may not be pulled on a political whim, is not effective.

Absolutely, the fear and dread i get when thinking that Child and working tax credit might get pulled is unbelievable. If that happens, I won't be able to afford to pay any bills let alone for the childcare....unthinkable but a very likely chance.

I also think there's nothing wrong with washing nappies, but IMO there is something wrong with using climate change as an excuse to get women back indoors doing copious amounts of domestic busywork in the name of the planet. I fear it's going that way.

I tend to agree, ackshally.

Orbit has now mastered the art of interfering with whatever DS1 is doing. Crawling has really opened up the possibilities for driving his brother wild. This afternoon DS1 was reduced to crouching on the floor clutching his train and wailing while Orbit climbed on top of him, giggling maniacally.

Shortly afterwards, his work in that arena done, Orbit crawled off to turn the answerphone security code on again (no idea what the blardy code is )

Ruddy - lol at cheeky girl wriggles

WFH - keep both pairs for sure yikes for prank caller xx

Bicnod & Fei & Mrs g - i shouted "go to fucking sleep" this morning at 6 am after being woken at 3 and kicked awake again at 5 then had my hair pulled and more kicking all of the hour until 6 (its been going on a while now) . do what you need to do, within reason lol xx

Boff - nightmare about the nannies ..... i still want that job lol

whinge coming up...

fucking shcool is so bollocking disorganised!!!!

friday - i get 2 things

phoenix has to have a shephers outfit, ok thats fine thinks me ........ letter says it has to be in by THIS monday coming. aso half of us mums had that letter and half didnt!! i have to whip up a costume out of thin air in 2 days

phoenix's (extra) homework - must get parents and grandparents to provide old photos of them with their toys and interview said rentals regarding their favorite toys as a child so that they can be used in their next lesson....that lesson is first thing monday morning!!

nevermind the regular homework,10 spellings to learn by wednesday for a test, red words to learn and match, book to read that gets changed on a monday.

also she has piano to blardy practice.

we spend an hour and a half each night just on homework and now she and i are to rush around on a sodding weekend too!!

WTF she has a party tommorow and she had dance today and i have a small child that also needs my attention this weekend and have housework to do FGS. (also need to mn etc )

a little more advance notice would have been nice!!!!!

raggggggggghhhhhh!!!!!

Well Nutts, there's your business opportunity. Design a range of costumes for school plays that can be couriered out at very short notice for a reasonable price.

Evening

Great business opp, I agree. I can't imagine I'll ever manage to put a costume together, I don't know how to use thread and needle! Nutts I'll be your first customer.

LOL at Orbit playing with the answerphone, my DD1 still does it and she's nearly 3!

I wonder what Hazel will get up to when she's properly mobile. She is soooo close to crawling but every time she puts her arm forward, she rolls over instead. She sat on all fours earlier before her bath, looked so cute because she was naked, and I thought she'd just go for it and start crawling but no, she rolled onto her back again.

No other news to report... hope everyone is well and Bicnod, fingers crossed for another good night's sleep!

Fei, are Lebküchen so called because they are the biscuits of life, without which one would simply give up and shuffle off this mortal coil? Or have I misinterpreted the "Leb" bit?

Yes, we may be able to do blokes jobs now but we're right fucked on the sleep fropnt.

Sorry, bit pissed. Had two glasses of wine with steak and can barely type. Npot goood with alcohol. very nice though. Great grandparents were wine growers so like it, just can't drink much.

Love you all xxxx

Forgot to close my brackets in previous post. Have deducted a mark from myself for poor punctuation.

Boff, glad you are finding solace in wine and getting all gushy.

I have had it up to here with marking and am going to bed soon.

Wishing you all a good night (ha!).

Caution this contains a lot of swearing!

Ladies, we were sold a pile of steaming crap.

You can't have it all - nobody can. What we should have been angling for is to bring our Partners in on the act and make them as responsible as we are.

I am well and truly fucked going back to work. I earn in the region of 20k so cock all really. It takes an hour to get to work and an hour to get home. I'd need to leave the house at 0700 missing breakfast to get back in time for tea at 1700 or make breakfast and miss tea, just get in for bath and going to bed.

I can't afford a nursery so he has to go to a child minder - there is one down the road which is handy.

After fees etc for child minding, tax, ni contributions etc. I'll have worked 5 days for exactly one days pay. We need the money, so what do I do?

I had hoped to get my DBA whilst off but I'm so bloody exhausted and Sam is a demanding little chap that I haven't even cracked a book. Should I get my DBA I'd have to take a low paid job to get experience (should I be unable to find work with my current company - it's a bank you think they are hiring?) I worked it out last week, Robin and I would be better off if we split up and I went on benefits by the tune of about 100 quid a week!

It's fucking heartbreaking.

I want to be a SAHM.

Work have pretty much screwed me over when they could have made me redundant but didn't. I fully intend to screw them over now by going back full time until they have to pay out redundancy to the person who should have been made redundant and then I'll probably have to quit due to absolute exhaustion. I am dreading going back to work.

VeryUpsetRightNowTiggaxx

Good morning.

Okay, I for one wouldn't have wanted to swap with my grandmother. She had 8 children, one of them disabled. She bred her own chickens and rabbits and had a veg garden, made her own jams and preserves etc. and as far as I know would sew and knit quite a lot of clothes for her kids as there was no money to buy anything. I don't think she would ever have got into bed before midnight, and probably got up at 6am every day. She did have a mother's helper before the war, but certainly not afterwards. I can have the Ocado man and Boden deliver food and clothes, and I quite enjoy the freedom of being able to drop my kids off at nursery and bum around at 'work' all day. But then I can't take my job very seriously and yes, thinking that it'll only pay me about £300 a month after deducting nursery fees and train tickets I'll feel entitled to spend a lot of the time at work mumsnetting and chatting to colleagues. It's true that the cost of childcare is ridiculously high and yet the nursery workers are paid fuck all. How's that possible?

And I would go mad if I had to be a SAHM right now, I am so grateful that DD1 goes to nursery.

Now Auld, had to google for the Lebkuchen answer. Apparently it's nothing to do with 'cake of life'. Apparently it's either derived from latin 'libum' (flat cake) or from 'laib' (as in loaf of bread).

HasJustLearnedSomethingNewFeierabend

tiggs sweety, i happen to have to live on that £100 a week and be split up, its hand to mouth and i hate it i've never been out of work so long and i feel a bit like a sponger even though i know i'm not its just shitty circumstance, un the upside i get my rent paid , i wouldnt be able to afford it if i worked.

the sad fact of the matter is if you have children you have to struggle wrt money/childcare. working or not money is a constant battle of trying to balance the books and trying to live.

and the highest i've earned is £15,000 pa

and theres the guilt too, if you work you dont feel your with your kids enough so muchos guilt, and if you dont work you feel guilt for not doing enough to further yourself or the outside world.

mothers sadly to say cannot have it all, we always lose out either emotionally or monetarily.

they giveth and taketh away.

Could anybody possibly looks at my thread please? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/873693-8-month-old-biting-How-to-stop-it

Love to you all!