Dec 08 - 9 months in, 9 months out!

[jumpjockey]

Hope you don't mind the dodgy thread name but all our babies are 9 months old now or in the next few weeks

WG - that is fantastic news. I have saod before that Madam remindsme of my DD1 both in her boob obsession and her sleep pattern. We sleep trained DD1 at 7 months using exactly the same intervals as you. Like your DH we were sure she would break every statistic in the book for how long she protested. The first night she cried for 19 minutes and we were amazed. The second night she cried for 6 and we were dumbstruck. The third night she cried for 30 seconds and then slept through the night for the first time ever. It was a miracle. I am so pleased that your first night went so well. Good on you and good on Madam.

wg that is fantastic news. Long may it continue

I have just had to leave DS to cry himself to sleep. He has refused to sleep since his early morning wake despite being exhausted. Anyway, he has been asleep for 10 mins so far, so we are 1/3 of the way through the average amount of sleep he has in a day.

20 friggin' minutes!!! He's awake and hysterical again... what am i supposed to do with him? I've been in and he is so tired rubbing his eyes but won't lie down. I'm letting him cry for a bit in the hope he goes off again. I can't bear hearing him cry

firstly, WG I'm soooo pleased for you that last might was better than you'd feared. Really hope that Madam gets the hang of things soon. And if day 3 is a regression, remember we're still here to hold your hand through it.

daisy love, it really is hard when they won't sleep in the day. I pray you've managed to get him some rest by now and that you've had some rest yourself. DD does exactly the same thing - rubbing eyes, all uncoordinated and falling over, but refuses to sleep. This morning we went to a soft play place and she crawled around for ages, then finally fell asleep at 12.30 on the walk home. Is there any way you can try to exhaust ds physically in the mornings so even if he finds it hard to switch off mentally, his body might take over? Or might he calm down and just fall asleep on you if you're able to give him that time? Just so that the two of you can recharge a bit.

Trace lovely, it sounds from what you're saying as if she might be in some sort of discomfort if even boob won't help her settle. Is she teething again? Or is there some too hot/too cold thing perhaps that she's super sensitive to? Hope the GP and HV have been able to give you a bit of reassurance.

WG - so glad it went well for you! It should only get better. Life will be transformed for all of you when you leave that sleep deprived fog behind you - madam included!

urbane - totally forgot to say, I was in Hyde Park on Sunday, I could almost have seen your swim. Must admit, we are in the park most weeks (my parents live near) and have often wondered about a swim in the Serpentine, but have never been so bold as to go for it - I'm quite and in awe of you having a bit of a go!.

veggie - glad you had a good time in Sardinia. DH and I went there a few years ago pre-children and had a fabulous time, mostly driving around and hiking. I guess it would be different with children, but it looked like it would be a good place to go.

daisydora,trace - so sorry you are having a difficult time at the moment, just hoping things get better soon.

Things a bit cheerier in our house today. Both DS and DD much better, which makes a massive difference. Decided to keep our nanny away for now, so DH and I juggling "working from home", but its fun to have an excuse to hang out with them. DS is so very pleased with himself now he's mastered climbing up (2-3) stairs. Its so funny watching him screw himself up with an immense effort of concentration and then beaming away as he zips off when he gets to the top. He also suddenly seems to have cracked sleeping through the night - its kind of crept up on us - I just suddenly realised its been about a week since I've had to do a 3/4am wake up and the difference in our lives is enormous! Its interesting that its almost exactly the same age as DD figured it out. My DCs are quite little and I wonder whether it just takes them that long to get big enough and get eating enough to get through the night. Don't know really, but its a bit of an odd coincidence given that they are not that much alike as babies otherwise.

So pleased wg. Was thinking of you last night. And as everyone else has already said no one would hate you for this. There is a world of difference between teaching a newborn that no one comes when they cry and showing a well loved 9 month old that it's ok to fall asleep on your own. This is going to sound mad but I was a real pain as a baby - and never really learned to go to sleep on my own. So you're really helping her. [I'm not a slapper, it's just that my parents never did controlled crying ]

Hang in there. And Daisy - am so sorry that your DS isn't sleeping well during the day. Is such a pain. Have to say I've resorted to driving round the block before. Which I know isn't the answer. You've got a lot on your plate at the moment though, do look after yourself.

So nice to have you back Veggie.

Invis if you saw a woman with a wobbly tummy getting dressed behind a tree that was me. And LadyT was sort of a seize the moment thing, but also a peer group pressure thing. I think I would literally jump off a cliff if everyone else was. Having said that everyone else had their swimming things with them.

Verso so pleased about the new job. Good for you.

And Trace. Am so sorry it's so hard for you. Wish there was something that would help.

Ok Thomas wars breaking out all around me - DD has grabbed James and the tender much to DS's chagrin. Will be back later.

Still haven't found a nanny btw. And supposed to be back at work on Monday. Ho hum...

WG I am so so pleased for you. DS2 took 1.5 hours on the first night and I never thought he would go to sleep.

Very quick post as DS1 wants a cuddle.

Daisy I'm in the same boat if I can get DS2 to go down for a nap it lasts about 30 mins, it's driving me mad. The house is a tip because I just don't get any time to clean. I'm so relieved my niece is coming to stay because otherwise I don't know how I would get this house packed up! DH is literally finishing up here in the UK on the thursday and starting in Holland the following Monday!!!! I'm currently sitting next to DS2's cot he is sooooo tired but just will not go down. Also his night sleeps are ok but he wakes at around 5am and tries to get back to sleep but can't so screams in frustration I don't know if it's teeth or just grumpiness.

WG I'm so pleased for you and well done on doing what is good for Madam. Sorry it is so hard on DH that makes it hard as you have to deal with both of the coping with it as well as yourself, but it's completely normal DH still can't handle either of them crying as much as he can't handle me in pain or distress. It natural he's his daddy he's supposed to protect her I think for some men it goes against there protective instinct to hear them cry, just as it does ours. But you are both doing amazingly!!!!

Well DH is downstairs talking to a relocation company we have finally gotten at least a verbal confirmation that he is hired and starts 2nd November, we just are still waiting for HR to sort themselves out. Wow so much to do aaaahhhhhh! I'm going to be so ruthless and get rid of stuff. Has anyone ever been to a car boot sale?

Oh he's asleep hooray.

Trace I love you you say such lovely things. I'm sorry things are so hard with P's sleep. I wonder if it is the change babies and toddlers can regress a bit with changes as you know, they can drop back developmentally etc maybe her sleep has regressed a bit. I was trying to remember if the same thing happened when DS1 started nursery then realized his sleep was crap until he was 18 months. If it is that you know she will re-establish her old pattern eventually. She is happy at nursery so I don't think it's because she is stressed I think it's just a change that's all. Please don't be too hard on yourself it's hard enough living on no sleep let alone living with the guilt your putting on yourself.

Verso you sounds so happy, it's really wonderful to hear from you please stay.

Omg he's asleep I'm off to try to clean up a bit. I need a fairy to sort the house out, or a skip!

Just a quickie as I am right in the middle of something but I just wanted to say that I am thrilled for WG - all power to you! That sounds like a great step forward - and huge love and strength to DaisyD and Trace. My goodness, sounds like you are both going through the mangle Everything crossed for a change and a respite.

DS1 has just done a wee on the potty!!! I am so excited!!

Yay kayz brilliant news, well done F!

DH has finally had confirmation that he starts november 2!!! Aaaahhhhhh we are due to move over to the Netherlands on the 31st October aaaahhhhhhhh!!!! There is so much to do, I'm actually suddenly in a panic. We are getting a couple of quotes from relocation companies who will move us, look for houses, schools and register us with relevant health & govt departments but they won't pack up for us sort through all our crap!!! Damn them!!! It's suddenly dawned on me that I know no one over there and I'll be stuck at home aaaahhhhh. However I few weeks back I started a thread calling on MNers who live there to help me with some questions re: logistics, lifestyle, schools etc and they have been a great bunch and really helpful. But aaaahhhhhhhh. I bought some chocolate in Sardinia for the friend that fed the cat & the fish while we were away but I think I'll have to eat it! I'll buy her another one.

veggie this is so exciting! If you can get packed up for the 31st your a better woman than me. Most definately eat the chocolate. I feel I need some for you

kayz woo hoo Freddie! Clever boy, is he suitably ppleased with himself?

Well DS asleep since 7pm, but already woke screaming once - I fear it does not bode well for tonight

dh has just had huge row on phone with his mum. Her sister is having a party on friday night for her Ruby Wedding anniversary, we were supposed to be away but aren't going now. MIL insists we go to party. Party satrts at 7.30pm. DS is asleep by 7pm at latest at mo due to his non-sleeping antics. DH said he wasn't prepared or able to keep DS up in order to go to a party, and given the state of huis sleeping it was too much for him. Plus if we took him he would be passed from aunt to aunt to aunt, which really annoys me! MIL thinks we (mainly me) is being V unreasonable (already said I put him to bed too early thats why he doesn't sleep). Everyone will be there except us blah blah blah, if we were on holiday we would keep the children up. I really can't be arsed with her manipulating DH. He now feels very guilty and says we should go just for a couple of hours. veggie any room in your suitcase for me??

Apologies for the sloppy typing in tha last post!

Daisy our babies are colluding I swear. DS2 again slept for a rediculously short time this afternoon and I put him down at 6.30 (took til 7 to get him to sleep) and he has already women once screaming.

Daisy reading what you said about your MIL I have an overwhelming feeling to tell you, to tell her to FUCK OFF!!! sorry is that wrong? Am I bad, I think I need that chocolate?

Oops woken once, not women. This premptive text is a pain.

Hello everyone. I am posting quickly just to wave and say hi to everyone as it has been so long since I have been on. I have only managed to keep up with snippets of those on FB and have missed seeing what is going on with you all...

Have only managed to read one page - but
massive hugs to you WG you sound so strong and focused on doing the CC with DD. I am sure it will be a success and worth it for all three of you. Best of luck sweetie. Will text you!

Veggie I cannot believe you are off to the Netherlands! How exciting! Whereabouts? Hope your neice is instrumental in letting you get packed etc. Sounds daunting but great.

Daisy and Trace and others with non-sleeping LOs - massive hugs - I don't know how you all do it. It will get better and I think it is OK to admit how terribly hard it is.Trace - L is also going through a grumpier phase at the moment. Particularly post tea-time (I wonder is she eating too much). It is hard when you remember them being continually smiley!

ladyT - greetings to you. Am on the last Cazalet book thanks to you. Thanks for the recommendaton. O sounds super, pointing and repeating!! Takes after Mummy on the chat front perhaps?

Hi to everyone else - Urbanewarrior don't think we have "met" but hi to all from the worst ever poster.

We are well here. I have been doing the design of my brother in law's new bar in Dublin so quite a bit of travel and no childcare (save an out of work DH who has to accomodate his now burgeoning mid-week golf habit ) But he had a FOURTH (?!) interview today so here's hoping it leads to a job offer.

Will try and catch up on rest of the thread...

Just a quick one to say fingers crossed for you WG and hope Madam is getting the hang of sleep for you.

Veggie how superbly exciting! Can we all come round and help pack?!

Today has been a pretty amazing day for us - having been a bit worried earlier this week about the CM, what with her not paying attention to dd at all when we visited, and forgetting our visit and so forth, I spent yesterday evening emailing nanny agencies and phoning other CMs, plus this morning called round the nurseries whose waiting lists we're on. The nursery that could offer us a day and a half a couple of months ago said they still had that space free, so I called my HoD to see if I could use up my annual leave by having every Thursday afternoon off, and she said that should be fine. So hurrah.

THEN the original nursery that had been our first choice (good size, kids seemed very happy, on the route to work so wouldn't mean a mammothly long day there for dd, we know a few people with kids there who have loved it) called to say they could give us three days a week. Which would come out at the same cost as 2 days a week with the childminder or the other nurseries as it's a workplace subsidised one. And dd can do two days there until she's ready for more, and shock horror have a day to myself once in a while!

So having gone from a couple of months ago thinking I'd have to give up work altogether, we've got a spot at the place we really hoped for all along. All those rewards I'd been storing up in Heaven have finally come to fruition...

jump that is fab news about the nursery and work!!

veggie rofl, I'd dearly love to tell her to f**k off!! However, for once DH has found his backbone and swears that hell will freeze before we go to the party! MIL can be quite a handfull...

Right no noise from DS for the past hour so goodnight and fingers crossed for an improvement!

Shocking night. Been awake since about 4.30ish. DS has slept but would only settle on me, so i have been sat on sofa for 2 hours with him laid on me and me sobbing. DH working today so I got the short straw again of having to be up with him. However DH not at work till lunch, so can hopefully grab a couple of hours this morning at some point . We exhausted the list of things to try last night...so I am waiting for an update from wg. I think we too might have to go down the same route, although DH will not be up for it, but we'll see.

Right off to make some strong coffee....

jump I am very happy it has worked out for you. Take the day for yourself - take it ! I had one off myself the other week. I lay on ths sofa and watched two films. I ate a sandwich on the sofa. I cooked my dinner (just for me and what I wanted and ate it on the sofa watching neighbours. It was great ! I did no housework. The only thing I did was cook the boys lasagne for dinner.

Daisy, I hope you are getting some rest, Wg I hope last night went well.

Veggie, you have such a busy life its amazing ! The move is very soon, but so exciting. I have a very stable job with a good pension, and its nice here, so we have no reason to move, but sometimes I think - what if ?

Daisy sorry about your night and the fact that you were so sad this morning. I'll give you some nice bikkies to have with that strong coffee they're yummy Daisy completely covered in chocolate! Sorry to tell you DS2 actually had a good night but I'm now laying next to him in our bed he is asleep but everytime I try to move away he goes mental. I tried putting him in his cot but it was like I'd branded him with a hot poker, he was in a complete state in there. Oh well it's not that bad laying here next to him. I can catch up with you guys and sod the housework.

Oh a daisy sorry I should have put some ** in my rude word. Sorry everyone for my potty mouth. However, Daisy good on your DH for standing his ground. I don't understand the idea of forcing people to come celebrate an event. It kind of defeats the purpose of the party doesn't it, not really much fun.

JJ that's fantastic news about the nursery, really wonderful you must feel so relieved. I would love your help with the packing we could have a MN working Bee but something tells me it would just involve a lot of drinking coffee and not much packing.

NJAN that day off on the sofa sounds do nice, one day... Also I'm sure one day we'll settle somewhere and be happy to just stay in one place I certainly want that when the boys are older. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Hello!
veggie how exciting about your move and having a date and everything. Good luck with it, that date is when I go back to work and it already sounds very close just for me going back to work in the town where I live, let alone without moving countries beforehand. So good luck!

daisy sorry about the rubbish night I hope you are getting some kip. And rubbish poo poo heads about the in-laws. My MIL was a bit like that on holiday. On the one hand she gushes that it's wonderful that we put DS to bed at a reasonably consistent time (one thing I can't criticise her for is moaning about our parenting, she is very good at not doing that), but she then had a moody because we refused to go on a horse and cart evening that started at 8:30pm and involves getting into the cart and then off in a bar for an hour or two and then back again. DS would just have gone mental because he would have wanted to be asleep! I would have been willing to try going out for a meal or something at that time of night and trying to get him to sleep in the pushchair but, oh well sigh now I have gone on about me! But you have my sympathy, and you should say sod off to the party (unless you could get a babysitter?)!!

jj I am so relieved to hear about the nursery! Was very worried to hear about the childminder not paying attention to the lovely S but I didn't want to say so as you were obviously worried enough! What a fab outcome!

DS has been asleep for ages (sorry to all those with nap problems) I am a bit worried as he didn't wake up til 7:30 either, and has been grumpy when he is awake, he is very snotty too poor fella. I was thinking of taking him swimming this afternoon but maybe that is not such a good idea.

oh, daisy - i'm so sorry. i've so been there as you well know. i'll say more in a min, but...

well... last night... drum roll, please... it took her 7 minutes to get to sleep at 7.30 and she woke up at.................................................................................................. ....................................................... 6.30am.

oh.
my.
god.

yeah, yes and yay again, the girl slept for 11 hours solid and woke happy. it is quite unbelievable. we, of course woke at 3.45 worried with nerves about who stole our baby or whether she was still breathing (and i didn't get back to sleep until about 6), but seriously, it was amazing.

tonight is night 3, which millpond warn you may be tricky again, as this is the "test" night - are you really sure, mummy, this is what we are doing - i hate this sort of thing. but i am now not scared of her crying any more - i regard the crying like medicine (and there was only 7 mins last night, which i hope will go down and down until she is happy to be in her cot on her own). it's my duty to teach her to get to sleep on her own, just as it is my duty to get her vaccinated for her own good, and neither is pleasant. i have to be wary of thinking we've now cracked it - it is going to take a longer period of doing it and being consistent with her.

daisy - i don't know how you feel about cc, but i hated the idea (and the terminology), but i have to say i've found it so far (only 2 nights in) to be the answer. madam had got used first to the boob, then to being picked up, and it wasn't her fault, it was ours for letting her get so accustomed to it. but i really think she is now developmentally ready for sleeping through, and indeed, so were we for using this technique. and it has been way easier than expected so far. but i am under no illusions that things may well go pear shaped again.

trace - will again look at your question and answer tonight.

off to pick mentalist mil from euston. wish me luck!

Dashing in as about to go to London until tomorrow night - just wanted to say to Daisy that I am so so sorry for you, and the last thing you need atm is your MIL acting like a silly old trout. We must all get our thinking caps on about how to make things better somehow....

Lovely to see you young Turnip! And Urbane is actually Lal with a shiny new name.

JJ, I am pleased as punch for you about the nursery, truly...what a result.

And Veggie, I am excited by proxy about your forthcoming move. It will be wonderful.

Must go. Sorry for paucity of response!

Cross posted with you, WG. Did small dance of joy on your behalf! Yay and thrice yay!