Dec 08 it's time for sippy, tippy and doidy cups (& wee sticks!?!)

[Veggiemummy]

sorry could think of much and these where discuss on last page.

veggie - What Mothers Do!

trace - I've been looking at the good old No Cry Sleep book again, and it has a very long section on how to help your baby fall back to sleep in the crib on their own, without having to CIO - I can photocopy it and send you a copy if you like? It does say it will take a long time (there are 6 stages from nursing to sleep to baby able to get themself off on their own), not an overnight solution, but it's what we'll probably do. Once I've worked up the courage!

Oh and Lady I found that Chris Lilly DVD we are about t go away for 2 weeks and DH is away til Saturday so jj chance to copy it. I'm happy just to send it to you for an indefinite loan as I'm sure I won't be watching it in a hurry. I loved it, but it is office style cringy so quite hard to watch. Def worth watching though as it's very funny.

Oh of course JJ I was thinking it as initials for some parenting gurus name (who us clearly very enlightened) but should have known.

This bloody rain, I think I could handle it better if they hadn't said how great this summer would be!!! Oh well still makes me feel better about going home next year I guess. Def no reservations anymore. Except for being jealous of meet ups I can't come to.

JJ I think the Paris meet up was my idea but started with someone talking about how cheap the eurostar is for a day return. I think I will do a trip soon mainly because I can, logistically that is. When Im back home I will whistfully look back on the days I popped over to Paris for the day. I'm thinking maybe late sept or early oct well after school hols.

Yes but Veggie you can go and see Bisou perform!! If I win the lottery this weekend I think I will be going over to watch her.

oh, trace - we've been there (still are sometimes). it is awful. forgive me if i've forgotten some of the details of where/how P sleeps/doesn't, but for what it's worth, this is where we are now... for the past week madam has slept in a different room to us (apart from last 2 nights at dad's). this means i find it easier to let her cry even a bit. it also means dh can go in and settle, even if it takes AGES. we've made the decision that i only go in if i am ok wiht feeding her - i.e. if it is around midnight, and about 4 hours after that. we will then extend the times between feeds. luckily dh is now able to settle her, even if it takes an age and i am able to lie in bed and block out the sounds.

if she doesn't settle well for the first part of the night, though, i am more leniant, as it might be teeth, or something genuinely distressing her.

i have to say i think i find it easier to hear her cry than you - especially if i have had some semblance of sleep. if not, then all bets are off and i might go in and rescue her at the slightest hint of a sound. i know i need to be more consistent, but the poor lamb hasn't slept in the same bed in teh same place for more than 2 nights at a time for the past week, so i really can't expect much of her at the mo. i am feeling better because she is beginning to sleep a bit better and dh is having success at settling her.

something that comforts me is how cheery she is in the day, and how different she seems at night - she is also suffering from middle-of-th-night paranoia, just as i do, and ultimately she will be fine. hope that helps.

back from dad's - he's been a really good patient, bless him. he is hoping to work things out with ladyfriend, but it isn't easy. madam is eating marginally more food, but that isn't easy either. i have to say, i've come home for a rest. it was amusing in sainsburys, though, to have madam strapped to my front in the bjorn, me pushing dad in teh wheelchair and the wheelchair attached to a shopping trolley. 3 generations of the waitingfamily, only one of whom could walk. wish i had a photo. he's going to be on crutches for 9 weeks - and to be honest he cannot cope on his own. i am juggling looking after him with dropping him off with his sister who can also help. bloody hell. must get on with ttc madam's sibling so she doesn't have to go through this as an only child.

Trace: it's bloody hard functioning on broken nights. We had a pretty awful one last night (trying to get DS2 to sleep in his cot) and I hate having him cry. Which means I am feeding him quite a lot and rocking and all the pther things you are not supposed to do... I wish there was a magic easy answer to get babies to do what you want! With DS1 I have a fair chance if I bribe him with chocolate (ponders shoving bar of dairy milk into DS2 at 3am)

Veggie: am snorting at your DH being Sportacus, I was thinking that I tend to think of of baby Veggie as the sporty baby with all his antics! Little LadyT is obviously the socialite with a range of fetching hats and I'm sure baby Spot has a career as a political activist given his talents at making his feelings known!

Oops, DS2 gurning...

So sorry to hear that you?re down at the moment Trace, I hope you managed to get some more sleep this morning. P must be getting enough sleep, or she wouldn?t be a smiley happy baby during the day (if that?s any consolation). I read your post this morning and was thinking of you as I ate my breakfast. All my thoughts are projections as to how my DD/me would react to the HV?s suggestions, so are likely to not apply to you and P as we are all different, but FWIW these are my thoughts on it. Is P hungry when she wakes, and does she have a good feed, or do you think she?s taking the boob as a comfort thing? If its a comfort thing, then I?d keep the dummy for a while longer and not try to change too many things at once, and let DH settle her. If she is hungry, then I?d second Daisy ? if I woke up hungry or thirsty in the night then I?d get myself something to eat or drink, so why shouldn?t I let DD do the same. I am starting to do what WG does though, and make sure there?s a reasonable gap between feeds as I do know that DD can last several hours without a feed. E has never taken to a dream feed, so I?ve accepted that feeding her as I go to bed won?t work and therefore I?ll need to feed later on at night instead. Has dream feeding ever worked for P? Patting has never seemed to work for us either, it just seems to annoy DD, but shushing and just being there/holding her hand do seem to reassure her. And on DH settling E, he does lose confidence if I march in, so I have to fight the instinct to go dashing in and elbow him out of the way and let him come and ask me to feed her if he thinks she?s hungry. I can?t just sit and listen though as every second lasts an hour, so I have to take myself out of earshot or distract myself with MN/a good book/anything to pass the time (even if it is only a couple of minutes). If you want to continue with your DH settling her at night, could you try earplugs, or sleeping in a room further away from DD for a couple of nights, allowing your DH a bit of time to try and settle P before she wakes you? And (I promise this is my last thought, as I?ve just realised how much I?ve babbled on and it probably isn?t even helpful), for your anniversary, choose whatever you?d be most relaxed doing, at whatever time of day, so that you enjoy it and don?t worry about P. For our anniversary this year we took DD for a family day out, as she was only tiny and we didn?t want to leave her ? I?m sure in future we?ll be dying for a night out and a bit of peace, but this year we wanted to spend the day with her

Jump if you do the London to Cambridge bike ride, you could have Dec 08 ladies to wave you off and to cheer you across the finish line!

for the survey LadyT, my fingers are crossed that the indecisive couple don?t sway the vendor now

Right, must mash some avocado now for DD?s tea ? I tell you, she eats better than I do!

oh, and trace - i have a clock by my bed - i tend to check how long it takes for dh to settle madam. it feels like a lifetime, but is actually only minutes. i also sometimes promise myself that when she wakes, i will leave it x minutes before i check on her. time seems so different in the middlee of the night, and i find this helps. good luck, hon.

Oh I've had a lovely afternoon, went to one of the mums from DS1's school's house for lunch with one of the other school mums. The kids played well together and we just sat and had a natter it was lovely. DH kept calling my mobile but I ignored because I was with the girls. It turned out he was trying to get through to tell me he is coming home tonight, so that's nice.

We got home a bit late but I had left over curry and rice which both boys devoured but yet again DS2 ate more than DS1. This may have been because I didn't actually give DS2 any lunch just BF. Interestingly I only give DS2 a bit of bread or fruit to chew on at lunch usually maybe some pasta at the most but this afternoon he was wanting the boob every 2 hours must have been the no lunch thing.

WG I hope things turn out ok for your dad and his ladyfriend. Also is there anything social services can do or the district nurses to help out with your dads needs. The hospital should really have checked he had appropriate support at home before sending him. I'm sure your doing a great job but you have a young baby, if I was the nurse organising discharge I would not see that as appropriate as you already have enough on your plate.

Evening all

We've just discovered another handy bit of Essex by our back door - we aren't far from a patch of woodland near the railway line which is bursting with all sorts of stuff. We pottered round and found: blackberries, damsons, sloes (gin!), cherries and cob nuts. Oh and an apple tree in the park by our back fence. Come the autumn and we'll be foraging - DH is already looking up recipes for obscure wines .

Forgot: there are also crab-apple trees. Must look out recipes for jams and jellies, I remember my grandma making damson jelly.

Is it wrong that I'm happy that DH is back but a bit that I had to share my butterscotch G&B with him.

Morning,

Veggie, that made me giggle!! Did you know that it is only £1 a bar at Asda!! Not adding any to my basket honest!!

DS2 slept all night again, quick wake up when we went to bed but asleep within 5 minutes!!

Hope you are all well!!

trace - so sorry you have been having such a rough time. Its hard being sleep deprived and not knowing what to so. Don't have any advice to add just for you and hoping it gets better.

LadyT - yay for the survey! And holding my breath for you until exchange...

WG - I was really tickled by that picture of the 3 generations of WG family in the supermarket! But hard on you. Hope things work out for your Dad and his lady friend and that he is back on his feet soon

spiggy - glad DS's op went well but on your behalf about the tonsils. I guess at least they have figured it out now, so hopefully better nights for you all.

effie - I am envious of all that bounty on your doorstep! Sounds fabulous. We did once manage sloe gin from sloes gathered on Hampstead Heath, but that's about as much as you can manage round here...

DS has managed to pick up DD's cold but is much less stoical about such things than she is so had a night of wailing little boy wanting to be cuddled. It is amazing though the power you have when just having the little fellow on your lap makes him better. Otherwise J is a jolly little chap. He is desperate to crawl, but can't yet do it, so lots of caterpillar bum in the air and like some of the others, spinning round and round.

Hi everyone. Veggie my DH is completely the opposite of yours When I met him he was fit and buff, now after years of drinking and eating too much, he is a bit overweight and constantly complaining how crap he feels - so he is now doing WW too (though at the moment has a cold, so he can "eat what he wants to make himself feel better". ! I look forward to the day when I have a sportacus too...

We are having a few probs with sibling jealousy now. of course, W, (DS2) rarely gets told off as he doesnt really do anything much wrong. Whereas DS1, well, hell. The nursery said he drew on a wall display and when they told him off he told them it was paper, and they'd told him he can draw on paper cant he ? And now he has worked out how to open all the doors, turn the taps on and off, get stuff out of the freezer etc. And when I tell him not to do something he turns to me very seriously and says "Can you go away now mummy please ?, I'm busy cooking etc etc". When W is innocently playing with something, DS1 will go and careful remove it from him while given him a hug and saying "hello W, I love you" and being all smiley, so its more difficult to tell him off. A few of W's favourite toys have disappeared recently and DH doesnt believe that DS1 has the knowhow to do it. I, however, know otherwise

So my strategy has become to occasionally tell W off too, its not as if he is aware of it But I have to be watching DS1 all the time......!

I've just realied that makes DS1 sound a bit evil. He is not, honest. He loves his brother a lot. But his brother just annoys him sometimes, by just being around. As do his mum and dad, by stopping him from doing exactly what he wants all the time.

Trace hope you had a good night. Mine was a bit crap.

I know exactly what you mean NJAN we have similar problems with DS1 he gets annoyed with DS2 going near his toys or colouring in, and we keep telling him off for pushing his brother off. We felt a bit bad too so have started gently telling DS2 off for eating DS2's pictures etc.

DH very nicely let me have a sleep in this morning but for some reason I feel worse for it, I feel really groggy and bit dizzy. I think I need coffee.

RIP sir bobby Robson

Oh and Kayz this is terrible but I don't know how much I pay for the G&B isn't that naughty I just put it in the online basket. I'm sure it isn't a £, but I'm scared of going to a place where it is, I may spend the entire shopping budget on it.

jumpjockey Sorry, how rude of me! I thought I'd introduced myself to everyone but you must have snuck on when I wasn't looking! I only discovered MN in the last week of my mat leave . DD was born 27th Dec, a few days early as she was due on the 1st Jan in an unplanned and rather fast home birth. I live in NE England and also have a 21/2 year old DS.

trace if it is any consolation I did the same with DS when he was about this age. I called the hv in desperate for help and all I got was don't feed him, you are spoiling him and let him cry. I was unable to ignore him when I knew he wanted comfort&feeding so I made a decision to just carry on with what we were doing. Once I conciously accepted that was what we were going to do I felt much happier even if I was still sleep deprived! My advice would be to sit down with your DH and set some ground rules about what will happen at night. One of mine was that if DS wanted feeding he got fed. I could not stand hearing him cry when I knew boob would sort it out. I sold it to DP that at least we would know he was keeping his bm intake up as I was back at work full time by then. I also recognised that we needed so uninterrupted sleep so we divided the night into shifts and bought earplugs. When it was my turn for sleep DP was in charge of settling and he got to pick how he did it. I know some people would say that this was mixed messages but quite frankly it was whatever I needed to do to get through the night! DS was up so much that it was easy for me to feed him before my sleep shift started. What we ended up doing was putting a futon in DS's room and taking it in turns to co-sleep with him. I read the Dr Sears book at the time and one thing stuck with me- the ideal sleeping situation is one that gives the maximum amount of sleep to the maximum number of people. So DS might have slept all night with a boob in his mouth but that would have meant no sleep for me so that wasn't going to happen. Anyway, that was a very long winded way of saying- find what you can cope with and do that! If it is any consolation I find that sleep deprivation is much easier to deal with at work than at home with kids. After one bad night recently I came to work with only 3 hours sleep and breezed through the day. I know that if I had been at home I would have been crying with exhaustion by 1pm. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Hi Ladies.

It's been a while but have been trying to keep up. I'm a bit poorly today so DH has stayed home to look after DS. They were both a bit unwell two weeks ago with the dreaded man flu - probably just a cold which is what I probably have now although it has been worsening today.

I can't be that ill though as Veggie's talk of chocolate is making me very hungry!!

NJAN - my mum tells me similar stories from when I was little. She would be bf my brother and I would be edging the telephone to the edge of the windowsill until she stopped - and if she ignored me I would let telephone crash to ground!

Trace - I don't feel I have too much to add. We are in a similar position really and sometimes I go with the flow and sometimes get stressed as to whether I should be starting some form of sleep training. I get stressed about it when the tiredness builds up but by that point I am too tired to have the energy to tackle it. I have often cracked when DH trying to get DS to sleep and just fed him to sleep - luckily DH is just relieved when I do this as he can just carry on with his evening as normal then! Even just a minute of crying seems like so much longer to me and I can't ignore it. So we have some nights when he is in with us all night, some half and half and v occ I can get him back in the cot in his room after each feed. He has never self settled to slepp though.

When DS was poorly he was waking hourly and refusing the cot. Luckily last night he fed 3hourly and with me being unwell DH then managed to put him down in cot after each feed (he normally doesn't help at night). Then this morning DH got ready for work as normal and I mentioned that he may need to stay off. His reply was 'you're joking, but mothers just work through this sort of thing', despite the fact that he had two days off with it when he was ill (and during that time wouldn't help with DS but played computer games all day!)

LadyT - great news with the house. Am keeping my fingers crossed for you.

On the food front DS is doing well with fruit, cheese on toast and loves corn on the cob. Strawberries seem to be his favourite.
He can crawl backwards and in a circle but not forwards yet. Does a lot of rocking on all fours.

Baby signing - we do a baby sensory class once a week which teaches some signs. DS not used any yet but loves watching me do the signs as we sing to some of the songs there. The 'say hello to the sun' song never fails to make him smile.

I had more people to mention but head pounding again and paracetamol due. Was there mention of a Yorkshire meet up? I may be able to get over for that and tie it in with visiting the Outlaws!

NJAN - if its any consolation, a few sibling rivalry problems here too. We had a couple of incidents where DD bit DS (to be fair when she was v stressed or very tired). Had to be very firm with her. Luckily not been a problem for a little while. Poor lamb, she is trying to work it all out. The other day, she got told off for trying to knock J over while he was sitting up. At bedtime she was earnestly telling me "No holding J. But I can kiss and cuddle J?". Bless. The only trouble with telling off the younger one, is that older sibling takes it on themeselves to be enforcer - so we now have a regular chorus of "books are not for eating J" as madam snatches book away....We did have the sweetest moment of sibling bonding yesterday when DD snatched a toy off DS, only to make the music go and hand it back to DS with a "there you go"!

DS1 tells DS2 off instead: we have a lot of 'Max has X. My take it off him' which is fine if it's something dangerous but not if it's a baby toy! We also get 'go away my busy' and 'my looking for something' as he rifles through DH's desk or my handbag. He's been very good today though, we had yet another puncture so he had to walk all the way to the bike shop to get it fixed.

Slightly better night last night, DS2 atually spent more than an hour at a time asleep in his cot. Slowly but surely...

as well not instead! Fuzzy brain today

We get a lot of DS1 telling DS2 off as well. DS2 loves to go in the kitchen, so if one of us says "Dylan come back please" DS1 goes and pulls him by one of his legs!! All while saying "naughty Dylan". But they are so cute together.

Just a quickie from me, not much to report at Daisy HQ, other than I am out tonight with 'the girls'. I am so excited its been an age since we all got together. I just hope DS behaves. He is full of a cold (again) and DH is in charge so he will be moaning if he's up all night.

Plus have got my letter from work and they are going to pay me 'in lieu of my notice'. So basically I am getting paid for my notice perios without having to go back to work! Some of it I am entitled too from holidays owed but happy days. DH can stick his lazy comment where the sun don't shine