Dec 08 it's time for sippy, tippy and doidy cups (& wee sticks!?!)

[Veggiemummy]

sorry could think of much and these where discuss on last page.

Daisy, He woke at half 1. We tried the not giving him any milk but he just screamed and screamed and woke DS1. We gave him a bottle at quarter past 2 and he went straight back to sleep.

So tomorrow I am going to stuff him with food!!

When did he sleep til in the morning Kayz?
Was it a bit later than the 5 he has been doing?

I know some people (HVs round here at least) say that they should sleep through the night, well at least not need feeding in the night at this age, but I am still dream feeding DS, then he wakes at 5-6 am hungry and usually goes back to sleep for a bit after. When he either wakes a bit later or wakes not hungry then I might think about dropping the dream feed, as it doesn't seem to me that he's likely to make it 7 til 7 or similar without a feed at the moment. However, my DS is a bit younger than your DS2 and not the best eater (in terms of quantity or skills or tidyness!).

I guess what I'm saying is that it seems to me that a lot of babies at this age do need a feed in the night whatever HVs might say, etc. And if you can feed him quickly at 1am and he drops back to sleep within 15 mins or so, then he sleeps til a reasonable time in the morning, personally I find this preferable to having to get up at 5am! However, if he still woke at 5am then I guess this doesn't help...

It was quarter to 6. But DS1 woke him up by shouting "Dylan open Freddies gate please" Cutie pie!

Daisydora - glad you got what you wanted on the redundancy front. Glad you are also getting to enjoy yourself!

Trace - hope little P is better and let you get some sleep. It sounds like the wedding was lovely!

On sleeping, I find my DCs still need feeding in the night at this kind of age, so we never battled to try and get them to sleep through at night. DD gradually gave up her feeds one by one and was sleeping through by about 9 months. DS still waking up (at the moment around 10ish and then around 2ish). I find it easier all round just to feed him and put him back to bed rather than deal with screaming that we would get if left him to it...For me, a lot of it seems to be to do with how much they can eat during the day (but I know its not the same for everyone on that score)

Oh and it was lovely to get DH back - thank you all! DD was beside herself jumping up and down and I was pretty happy about it too...Had a fun weekend pottering about and seeing people.

For you Londoners - we went to the V&A yesterday and found it to be surprisingly child friendly. Best bits for DD were the theatre/performance galleries as well as the "swimming pool" - giant shallow pool in the middle that you are allowed to paddle in - had to drag her out! For DS, lots of high contrast stuff that had him gawping with excitement - like the stained glass and the very blingy jewellery gallery.

Glad it is not just us then TIH, everyone I know in RL seems to have babies that eat bucketloads of solids and don't need feeding in the night!
DS wanted a bonus feed at 3am last night so we seem to be going backwards. Could be the crawling burning more energy I suppose.

Hello everyone,

Back from our holidays. We went to Northumberland and it was lovely. Beautiful clean beaches and no crowds. We went with the PIL which was great in one way, DH and I had a meal out alone , but MIL drove me bonkers with thinly veiled criticisms of my parenting. She thinks DD should face outwards in the pram (I like her to face me so we can 'chat'), offered to go to boots and get her some jars (we're BLW mainly), and generally made me want to bang my head on the wall. I found mentally swearing really helped. I imagine WG did a lot of that this weekend.

I have caught up but missed to much to comment on everything!

veggie I suspected that DD having teeth early would mean she'd be at risk of tooth decay. She has her teeth brushed but would rather be in charge of the brush herself . When am I meant to take her on her first dentist trip, anyone know?

ladyT I read your late DH's book whilst we were on our hols and enjoyed it so very much. DH had picked it out to bring with him but I snaffled it .

My friend has a baby by this week too. Her birth was just awful - ended up with a emergency c-section under a general , but it still made me feel oddly broody.

Congratulations trace! You will make a fantastic school nurse I'm sure. Really great news.

SL What a scary crash. Glad everyone is OK.

daisy Glad you got the result you wanted job wise. A career change sounds just the ticket.

I should be able to make a York meet up. It would be fun to see you all again.

Gosh its been a quiet few days on here.

Jolly Glad you had a nice break despite the MiL's best efforts. I took my DD1 to the dentist at two and a half and he said it was quite early to be seeing her but good to get her used to it. He also told me that until they can talk toothbrushing is not that important, just make sure they suck on a bit of toothpaste each day.

Daisy its nice that you are pleased about your redundancy. Make sure you do some fun things with the money.

Kayz Sorry about your nights. DD2 is also getting up very early (5.15am this morning). Early waking is sooooo depressing. We went through months of it with DD1 and there is no obvious way to tackle it. Gah. I do feel for you.

I feel like pants tonight. My glands are all swollen, I have loads of mouth ulcers and my head hurts. I hope its not swine flu. I have been feeling really odd and moody for a few days. I have been horrible to DH and even heard myself be quite nasty to DD1, I felt awful about it. I seriously would have been appalled if I had witnessed another Mum dealing with normal two year old behaviour the way I did earlier. In fact I would be pretty appalled if I saw another woman treat her DH they way I have been treating mine lately. I had hoped my period would arrive and explain it all but no sign so far (incidentally have other BFers got their periods back yet, I am sure I got it back earlier last time). Anyway, I am hiding out in bed tonight and hopefully I will feel better in the morning.

We had some sleep last night. He did wake at 5 but was back to sleep within 5 minutes with no help from us. But I didn't get back to sleep.

Now I am sat next to his cot hoping he will go to sleep as he has started not going to sleep on a night without me one of us here. Not that sure what to do really. Ds1 was a brilliant sleeper and still is so quite new to this not settling, not sleeping stuff.

Hope you are all well.

Kayz sounds like progress re last night. Sympathy on the not going back to sleep thing. Crap isn't it, I am always failing to sleep even though E is asleep. Sometimes for most of the night.

arti sorry to hear about grumpy and moodiness. My periods haven't come back yet either. I really hope you haven't got swine flu, and it's just a bug!

I was pretty moody and horrid to DH over the weekend as well. He was stressed about getting a new car (we only have a week to find one and then we will be sans car as the hire company are taking theirs back) and was dragging me all over the place, and he hasn't got his head around weaning yet and that I really NEED to feed DS and this requires time and a place to do it, unlike BFing which can be done pretty much anywhere and these days only takes 10 mins or so. So I shouted and sulked a lot, lots of stressing going on from both of us.

In fact it was the first time I have experienced the whole "it's so annoying, I have to take care of the DC(s) all week, but then on the weekend I can't quite trust DH with them, and feel like I'm always on alert" thing that other people complain about. DH really doesn't get feeding solids yet. But then that's not surprising I suppose as i haven't explained to him what I do and when in detail. He gave me a lie yesterday and I came downstairs to him defrosting carrot and pear. Carrot and Pear?? For breakfast (strange combination anyway)??? Oh lordy, and before I knew it I was tactlessly saying "What on EARTH are you doing??", I then tried to ask "Would you eat carrot and pear for breakfast?" to which he pointed out that DS probably wouldn't notice or know that, which I guess is fair comment. But I think it was agreed that cereal may be a more normal choice in future.

However, on the actual proper bad parenting front I left DS on the bed today to grab a bib from nearby and in one unsupervised second he rolled off . I hope he is OK, he seems Ok (after 10 mins of screaming back to smily self) but I feel terrible. Poor little man. Still hopefully it will make me pay more attention now that he is mobile.

jolly holiday sounds lovely with the exception of the inlaws!

Note to all DHs/DPs ? what not to say when your wife has spent an hour and a half in the middle of the night trying to encourage your LO back to sleep and you have snored through it all ? ?oh dear?. Secondary note to all DHs/DPs ? how not to react when reminded of this at breakfast time ? ?ha ha, I don?t remember that conversation, I must have been sleep talking? . At least he is away tonight so can?t ignore us

What a relief that you got the response you wanted on your redundancy Daisy. Was it you who talked about going into teaching? Well whatever you choose to do, a change of direction is very exciting (and as good as a rest of course ...)

Kayz the first time I went out driving I stalled at a junction about 15 times before finally getting out. And 13 years on, I still get scared about driving fast (and therefore am the butt of many jokes among my friends) and don?t really enjoy it, I just do it because I have to. When I win the lottery the first thing I will get is a chauffeur so that I never have to drive again. And I hope both you and DS2 sleep well tonight (very annoying when they go back to sleep and you don?t)

Lovely news about the new baby LadyT ? was this the old friend of yours who you found out only recently they were having a baby? And Jolly?s friend has a new baby too. I love tiny babies, and have just realised this is making me feel broody too, for the first time. Don?t think I?ll be acting on it yet though ? this weekend we went to a friends birthday lunch and I had DD on one knee and my goddaughter (21 months) on my other knee, and someone commented how nice it was that the sisters got on so well together. Both me and my friend responded like a shot ?good grief, they?re not sisters, we couldn?t handle 2 so close in age?, so I think that gives me my answer on how long to wait before another one comes along

PMK DD normally goes off pretty quickly once she's in her cot, but then she is still BF so I feed her into a state of extreme drowsiness before putting her down (making a rod, I?m sure, but hey ho I?ve made plenty of other rods too so it?s just another one for the collection)

Trace I hope P wasn?t getting poorly on Saturday night, and was just unsettled from being in a different place. How?s L?s tooth? Has it dropped out yet?

I hope you?re sleeping well Arti and getting better, sounds nasty your poor thing, swollen glands are so painful

Indith is it your DS who has night terrors? Are they really bad? DD has started having bad dreams most nights (about an hour after she goes to sleep) and even though I go to cuddle her and reassure her I can?t wake her, so just have to sit with her (mainly to make me feel better for doing something) until she relaxes again, which normally only takes 5 or 10 minutes. I find it really that there?s something going on in her head that so sad and I can?t help cheer her up. Someone suggested to me that they are night terrors, as she doesn?t wake from them, but I?d only describe them as bad dreams as she rarely gets more upset than a whimper/cry and I?ve always imagined terrors to be full on screaming. Does it sound like night terrors to you, and if so how do you comfort your DS? I hope his are getting fewer, it must be very horrible for such a little person to have them

x-posted with SL there. DD also tried to chucj herself off the bed last week and nearly gave me a heart attack. I just managed to grab her ankle before she fell off completely, so she was swinging upside down by one foot and finding it all quite amusing. All this movement is going to be a challenge for us!

zj snigger at the "oh dear". My favourite is when DH sits bolt upright at say 7:30 in the morning and says "Oh my god, did he sleep through the night?" - "Well, if you discount the two times I got up to feed him, then yes dear" (while considering punching him in the goolies)

Hi all am back had a brill weekend, saw Puy from cbeebies (rocknroll) and that hugh fernley whatshisname, so bit of kind of celeb spotting. Camping with the boys was fun and both loved the festival. It was very child friendly which helped.

Right will catch up tomorrow as am shattered now.

Ciao.

Sounds like progress Kayz. Hope you've had a good night tonight.

JB we were on a beach in Northumberland on Wed. Just us and a few dog walkers. Fantastic.

ZJ yes it is Ds who has terrors. The general rule with them is not to touch them as it usually makws it worse. I'm pretty sure all the literature says they don't happen under the age or 1 though. That said, bad dream in deep sleep and unwakable about an hour after going to sleep is fairly text book! If they are passing harmlessly enough then keep doing what you are doing and the phase will pass. If she has worse phases in the future at least you are now aware of them. Just be aware they can present in different ways from just the wimpering to sitting bolt upright with eyes open, full scale tantrum slinging themselves about the bed and so on. Ds is now only having one every few weeks and always triggered by something (missed nap, something traumatic like a haircut!) They tend to go hand in hand with developmental stages, upheaval and overtiredness.

I have had less ttha 2.5 hours sleep and not all at once. I don't think there is any point even trying to describe last night.

YAY!!! DS2 slept all night!! I went to see what he was doing at 10 to 7 and he was just lying there awake!!

Indith, sorry you have had a bad night!

ZJ, It is so annoying when DHs ignore you in the night and then claim to know nothing the next day.

Veggie, sounds like you had fun!!

Hope everyone is well.

Hi Veggie, glad you had a good time. I saw HFW in Dorset a few weeks ago - he gets around. I am not sure who is the bigger celeb out of that bunch - a friend was on hols with Justin a few weeks ago (well, in the same hotel rather than WITH him) and I was duly impressed.

Indith, sympathies on the rubbish night. Can you get some rest in today?

Kayz, yay for some decent sleep at last. Well done to Dylan.

My 2 girls are trying to wallop each other now so I'd better go. Back later

Just popping in to say hello - we've been entertaining the in-laws and dealing with sniffy colds and I have had no chance to MN . Kayz: glad you had a good night. I'm afraid we are back to co-sleeping as DS2 is refusing to sleep in his cot - this is all getting v familiar to DS1! When he's in with us he only wakes a couple of times so I suppose it could be worse.

DS2 has just proudly announced he has weed in his trousers so had better go. Grrr.

DS1 - DS2 is not that advanced!

Morning,

Kayz fab news on the sleep! Long may it continue. DS now waking once a night as a rule, we have to feed him but it works so I'll put up with it.

summer, DS has fallen off the bed twice. The first time when he went on a roll-a-thon, and the second time DD pushed him off!! She was terrified when she heard him scream. It took longer to calm her down than DS.

ZJ, your DH sounds like mine.

Iwonder if DS has night terrors too now. Within 20-30 minutes of him sleeping he screams and screams. But when I go in he isn't actually awake, just thrashing about. Usually a quick 'shush' and a stroke of the head sorts him out.

DH is a wanker, I can't be bothered to into all the details but the short version is there is a 6 week period between me going back to work and getting the redundancy. I wasn't going to go back DH has said I am lazy for not going back as we could use the money I would earn for a holiday (we have been away twice already and have a week in Scotland booked for November). I am furious since I have been on leave he has never washed any clothes/done ironing/cleaning/got up with either child/gardening/clean cars...the list goes on. he thinks I sit on my arse all day watching Loose woman or the like. He won't need to go to the Dr's next week for a vasectomy I'll bloody do it myself with the kitchen knife

And breath.....

Giggle at DS2 announcing his wee, would be quite often if they did wouldn't it. DS1 only had one accident over the weekend but it was in his only warm track bottoms so was a bit cool when rained yesterday morning, luckily it got sunnier.

Syb we did see mr Tumble, but only on stage (rocknroll), Puy we saw in the crowd after mr tumble when we were going around for the dress up parade. Then on the way home we stopped at a beach in Poole and they were right next to us on the beach and we had a chat about the festival (she noticed our wristbands from the festival). Her husband is White and she has a son DS1's age, DH and I decided our son is way better looking. We are watching her now on cbeebies (we've started early here today) and DS1 is a bit confused at seeing her yesterday on the beach and now on the telly.

Oh dear mr daisy is in big trouble. I have to say it seems rediculous to go back for 6 weeks, the cost of childcare for that short time would be stupid and apart from cost why send him off to childcare just to pull him out again when he gets used to it and has settled in!? Really if you were lazy you would go back to work for the break. Tell him he can have a holiday, treat himself to a nice weekend away with the LOs he's like that, might realize your 'job' is quite difficult.

Veggie,

I have tried to reason the childcare costs, plus my travelling expenses as I have a fair old commute. Plus I would be going back to a team I have never worked for, so by the time I have trained I'll be leaving!

I am waiting for my letter from HR and am hoping that they will pay me up anyway[hopeful emotion]. If by some miraculous way this happens, DH can stay here and I will go on holiday with the DC's.

go, daisy - you tell him/show him the scissors! had a good old chuckle, thanks.

indith - so sorry, i know only too well how hard it is

kayz - yay!!!

sl - it is hard with dp/dhs, isn't it. btw, i have done carrot and pear with great success (annabel karmel recommended it), but i also don't think i'm that hot on this weaning malarkey.

so... weekend with inlaws - it was fine. nice, even. they are mental, but it was fine. mil has started calling dd by her real name at least one time for every 5 tuppences, so things improving. still no news on pil's cancer - basically it won't be until they operate that they know what they are actually dealing with. but mil hasn't had one of her "premonitions", so obviously all is fine. pil is obviously scared, but putting a brave face on it, and with this family where NO ONE EVER SAYS WHAT THEY REALLY THINK OR FEEL, we'll never know.

meanwhile i am now off to suffolk to look after dad for a couple of days who will be in plaster for NINE WHOLE WEEKS. we will have to shop at waitrose because they supply wheelchairs for their customers (remember my mum in the months before she died, gleefully directing me around waitrose, (imagine german accent) "no, not that isle, this isle - let me see this - no, not that mango, this mango" etc - a bit like a mad german commander directing his way around a battlefield). i suppose he'll have to have madam on his lap, or i'll take the bjorn as well. bloody hell.

it has made me think that we'd better get on ttc for number 2 - i am an only child and i don't want to inflict this on madam when she gets older. i know siblings can be pains in teh arse, but at least there is someone there who is supposed to share the burden of parents. speaking of which, i got my period last night. so so weird. it made me really upset - i suppose this part of my life is eending and she is becoming - gulp - more independent of me. not that she is that good on food, i have to say. i need to revisit what you are all feeding your babes. i've had a few days of ella's kitchen only, wiht a few bits of toast and nectarine/apple bits thrown in. must be more adventurous and get this little girl to sodding eat.

am going to try to install wifi at dad's so he can have the laptop with him (not at all so i can get on mn - no, not that at all)

oh, madam is now in her own room. gulp. she slept okayish - but crucially only fed twice. dh is getting the hand of getting her back to sleep without food (obviously - she is bf), which makes my life sooo much easier.