Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

[waitinggirl]

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

Oh no kayz those cakes look yummy, I want a cup cake now. You must be getting excited now. I love that little cake top baby, well done!

Kayz, I hope you have a lovely day tomorrow and the cakes look smashing.

DP has a band rehearsal and then he is off to a stag do (dressed as Alice Cooper - it's rock star or super hero fancy dress. Be grateful you are not in the West Oxfordshire area...) and even though I had another terrible night's sleep, fretting, and still feel almost hungover (solidarity with those suffering with sleep averse babes) I feel more relaxed and I'm listening to Nina Simone with the patio doors wide open and looking forward to a night on my own (well, just me and DD) until tomorrow lunch. DP is great but it will be nice to watch rubbish on the telly tonight and do work at strange hours and eat weird things for supper without having to justify it

You've set me off, Veggie, with that Paris idea. Would we get any further than the Cheerfulness Bar in St Pancras, one wonders?

It's funny, this vegetarianism lark. Having been veggie for over 25 years, if I ever I vaguely thought about having kids I felt strongly that I wouldn't want them eating meat. Now, of course, I don't mind, I just want her to be healthy and well fed. And fish is amazingly nutritious. That said, while she is little I would rather it was fish and chicken and I would want any meat she has to be organic, blah blah. She can make up her own mind about it all later on but if she asks me where meat comes from I won't be saying, vaguely, it comes from Mr Pig, Mrs Sheep etc as my mother did. (At the age of 3 though I got suspicious and wanted to know where THEY got it from, and I think Mum knew then the writing was on the wall )

If work agree to my working two full consecutive days in the office, that means I will stay over in London one night every week sans DD and be able to go out. Every cloud...It also means I will be in Primrose Hill for lunch two days a week so if any London ladies feel like dropping by for a lunch...

I haven't posted on the Fatties thread for so long (and neither has anyone else ) but the fat is very, very, very slowly coming off me still.

Cheerfulness at train stations that reminds me of when I went to visit a friend at her DP's in Leamington spa a few years back, she still worked in London and went to his on the weekend. This is years ago before I was married. DH (then DP) was coming too and we all arranged to meet at a bar at Marlebone station but DH was held up at work so my friend and I had a several couple of pints and as it was on an empty stomach and DH was quite we...well let's just say we were quite a handfull for DH on the train ride up to Leamington. When we arrived at her DP's we presented him with several street signs and a couple of roughly ripped up gladioli by way of apology for our late drunken arrival.

I'm glad your feeling a little better Lady and seeing the positive side of things. Are you able to sneak a cheeky photo of DP in his get up.
Oh cranky bum

Interesting veggie, I feel the same as your friend, in that I had no choice, and I wanted DS's to have one. I am a bit worried, like LadyT, how I am going to explain to them what it is when they ask

Kayz have a lovely day tomorrow and well done with the cupcakes they look great !

A Paris meetup, that would be exciting. I'd be up for it, any excuse....

Oh BTW, DH wants to know why you cant reason with a 2.6 year old, and why when you are trying to explain something to them they get distracted by their toys

Well, he was getting ready from the band rehearsal so I won't see him. But I saw the get up - wig, rings, leather gloves, my best liquid eyeliner I think you can all live without a picture of a 40 year Alice Cooper lookalike, just a little broader in the beam than Alice of course

DD cried when he tried the wig on this morning. I think Alice would be proud.

On another topic it really amuses me when I put a pile of toys next to DD in her little chair, and she sorts through them for the one she fancies playing with, like an old lady at a jumble sale. She is quick and determined, as well. In fact I will take her to the Selfridges sale in about 2014, she can nip in and grab the bargains.

LadyT I thought I saw you in my local supermarket these evening. I then realised that you would have mentioned it if you were coming to North Yorkshire.

Lady - I too am sans DH tonight and very happy about it indeed! He is causing trouble on a stag weekend in Edinburgh. I am a big loser and excited about my night on the sofa, with simultaneous random internet surfing and Come Dine With Me, greasy pizza, and the Magnum that is currently awaiting me in the freezer.

Veggie - Love the idea of a Paris meet up! I know they have cheap day return fares and I always mean to do that, just pop over to Paris for lunch.

DS has started sleeping on his side and seems very happy that way. Perhaps he will now join the other perfect sleepers on this thread? Not a chance.

Hi all, solidarity for those home alone tonight, DP is out for an almighty pissup-- important work do so I get Wimbledon and looking after the spudster who is being a little cutie. I wish I could get him to roll back over on his back though. We have to go and rescue him about 4 times a night after he's rolled onto his tummy! -
LadyT, that would sound a very civilised working situation if it works out...

Went to the cinema last night to see Public Enemies, v v good. Gonna make some soup now, back later. Hope you have a lovely christening Kayz.

Alice Cooper and I once shared a toaster in the lounge of Singapore airport. Disarmingly nice man in RL (Lal realises opportunity for this story was actually a few threads back...).

Have a lovely day tomorrow Kayz. The cakes do look great.

Paris would be lovely Veggie...I can't believe you're going to follow the tour next year. My DH is unhealthily obsessed with it. We watched every day last year - as I was pregnant and throwing up and didn't have the strength to argue.

LadyT I love the thought of you cross examining your mother at 3...

Sigh. Keep having to run upstairs because the boy's paddington CD is sticking (why isn't there a lazy parent emoticon?). He listens to it so much he's starting to talk like Stephen Fry. We have entertaining tussles about how you pronounce bath - am trying in vain to teach him to have flat vowels.

Lovely day today - picnic in the park with some college friends of DH. Lots of babies in the shade. DCs are so much happier at the weekend when DH is around . As am I. DS has started saying 'but I missed you Daddy' when he sees him in the morning. Nothing quite like a cherubic faced 2 year old for piling on the guilt. God knows what he's going to be like when I go back to work.

Right BBQ. Mainly because it's too hot to put the stove on in the kitchen. And I like setting fire to things.

Oh - while I'm here - does anyone know of a baby/child friendly insect repellant? We are being eaten alive but when I look at the ingredients of any of the sprays I chicken out. Which is probably just my massive ignorance of what any of the chemicals are. But still. I'd feel happier with something slightly more lentil-weavy. Indith I loved your list .

Kayzr, I am fond of Yorkshire, actually, but it wasn't me! Leeds is great for shopping and has a nice atmosphere. I like Harrogate, and Kirkby Lonsdale in the Lakes, and whilst it would be hard to call Sheffield a good looking city, I am keen on it as have good friends there and have only ever had nice times there.

Mom and Spot - must be Lads' Night Out night...

Lal, I have heard that AC is a nice fella too. Shared a toaster?

Safe insect repellant - I got my lentil weavery one from Neal's Yard - it is predominantly citronella. I needed one for Tobago when I was pregnant and they are surprisingly hard to find. I will use it on DD in Italy, though I know my mother will be trying to cake us all in deadly DEET.

NB - I am not saying those are the only nice places in Yorkshire. They are the only places I have been in Yorkshire! Apart from Headingley of course. I fancy Whitby though, at some point.

Hellow fellow Saturday night spinsters!

Well I am actually not a spinster any longer as DH has finally arrived home from Lithuania, but he is knackered and has already retired to bed. I am watching footage of Madonna's latest tour on Sky1 while surfing the net. Its reminding me of my younger days when I used to go to fun concerts etc. This thread has made me realise I need to get my life in gear and start doing things like that again - you guys are all off to Blur and Bruce Springstein etc and I want some of that. I just walked to the newsagent to buy Time Out and book some fun evenings out but it was out of stock. I expect anything good that is already in Time Out will already be sold out anyway, I need someone with their finger on London's pulse to make suggestions for things to look out for in upcoming months. Any ideas Ladies????

Glad to hear you sounding a bit more chipper LadyT.

Lovely cakes Kayz. Lal I second the rec for the Neal's Yard insect repellant. We use it too. Was the hen do really not fun? I know what you mean about realising the gulf between yourself and childfree friends. I feel it a lot more not that I have two kids. We should have another London meet-up soon.

I am interested in all this chat about vegetarianism. I was bought up eating meat but got salmonella poisoning from a chicken when I was 18 and stopped eating all meat for three years (I still ate fish). But I really missed spag bol and lamb so I slowly reintroduced beef and lamb but I can't stand poultry after the salmonella. Basically if a meat can make you very ill unless its cooked thoroughly then it scares me. Lamb and Beef are OK as you can cook them anyway you like and be safe. So I am a pretty rare white meat refuser/red meat lover. I do not cook white meat for the DCs as I am too scared of the undersooking issue but they have loads of fish and good organic read meat. When we in Sicily last year DD1 saw the farmer we were staying wth shoot and wild boar. She was totally fascinated and watched him skin the carcass, disembowel it and cut it into chunks . The next night she ate wild boar sausages in full knowledge that they came from the "piggy" she had seen running from the gun 24 hours before. It did not phase her one bit and she still talks about it. So I am pretty confident she is OK with the harsh realities of the food chain!

Spot - a few posts ago you asked whether I could share my sleep consultant's tricks. I am happy to try although she did tailor her methods depending on the baby. Whatever she did is still working , DD2 has tried a couple of early wakings but other than that her sleeping has been great . The basic rules the consultant gave were:
(1) Room must be pitch black
(2) No sleep props should be used (e.g. white noise) - the training is aimed at teaching the baby the art of self-settling without props
(3) Once you have stopped feeding at night you must not go back. Ever.
(4) You have to accept that some crying will occur. In the first couple of nights your baby may be hungry and angry but within three nights they will learn to adjust as long as you are consistent - and they will never feel abandoned as you are not leaving them alone to cry.

DD2 was already going to sleep alone at bedtime so we did not have to teach self settling from scratch. If she is training a baby who can't self-settle at all then she tackles that first.

Then basically all she did was wait for DD2 to wake and really cry. Her definition of crying and mine were different. I went to DD2 as soon as her chirps sounded unhappy but she did not go to her until they were angry screams. At that point she would sit next to the cot in the pitch black and tap DD2s leg very fast but softly with her fingers. It was a much faster tap than I had expected and it had an amazingly calming effect on DD2. As soon as the crying subsided (even if there were still quiet moans) she stopped. If screams came back the tapping recommended. However, she never tapped until DD2 was actually asleep otherwise the tapping would have become a prop.

It does not sound much does it? I think teh key was that over three nights she never wavered. Never let any light into the room (she was sleeping in there). Never let DD2 actually see her (it was pitch black). Never picked her up. Somehow it just worked.

Hello Arti!

If I do get my work thing sorted out and I am in London one night a week, I would be up for watching comedy (I like going to the Soho Theatre) and possibly the odd play. And faine daining.

I was fascinated by your sleep guru's method. Wow.

My DP keeps sending me pictures from the stag do and they are getting progressively worse. The latest one shows the groom, who is actually a friend of mine and one of my cricketers, in a mankini which barely covers his, er, modesty. I may have to turn off my phone...

Arti I'm going to a festival this month am I cool again?

I think this Paris thing is a goer.

thanks Arti, that's really helpful . Did she talk to your DD at all or just tap?
And hurrah for the return of DH!

Lady...oh dear it getting messy.

Arti did DH bring back presents?

eurgh. Up every 2 hours crying (but settling with water/quic cuddle so know not teething), I've had max 2 hours sleep, feel absolutely shocking, I really want to do some form of sleep training but am so tired I feel like anything that took any longer than it currently does to settle him would break me! I need a north london based Mrs Sleep!

Oh happy days Dd sitting at my feet going "dadadadadad" to her toys. While 6am is a late start for her she didn't go to sleep until late, woke 3 times before midnight then refused point blank to go back to sleep until 2.30. Ds woke at 2.45, put him back to bed at 3, dd woke at 3.15. Since then I have "only" had to settle her twice until she woke for the day at 6. ARGH! Her sleep has gone to pot again and I just don't know what to do but I am beyond exhausted and it is really affecting the way I am with ds and dh.

We are meat eaters, have a lovely cheap farmshop close by. It isn't organic but it is local and sustainably farmed. Ds knows exactly where his meat comes from, he will go to the farmshop with dh and see the chickens and pigs then come home and watch dh take a chicken apart to freeze and put stock on while chanting "dead chicken"

I'd say citronella for a chemical free insect repellant too but I would check for more info first as not all oils are suitable for children and some are phototoxic.

hi everyone, as usual am just posting to bookmark & will go & have a read back to see what everyone's been up to!

Had ds2's baptism yesterday, went really well, it was funny as a few of ds1's friends & cousins were there, they all have blonde hair & were wearing white shirts, comments were made that it was a little like this .

Kayz hope ds2's christening goes well today, the cakes look fab

Sorry about bad sleeps must be something in the water DS2 was up for a feed and unsettled from 2.30pm he then did a huge enormous poo at 7am so I think it was that making him uncomfortable. I at least got some sleep though as DH went into DS1's room when DS2 started wiggling and then took him at 7am so I could get some sleep. Because my sleep was all unbroken I had some really weird dreams. In one I developed a baby formula made from newspaper and my own hair?!?! The newspaper helped make it more dissolvable (of course) so there were no lumps.

Arti reading back over what you said your sleep lady did I can't understand why your friends thought it was cruel. It seems to me a quite baby friendly way to help them sleep. It not so much 'teaching' sleep but kind of helping her work it out herself but not alone, I think it sounds lovely. She needs to start a franchise though. Speaking of crying, DH was on the phone to his infamous Dsis yesterday and she was complaining about centerparcs (they have just come back from a week there) because the walls in their little house thing were too thin so they could hear their DS's crying in the night through them! The youngest one is only 5 months.

Have been looking up the eurostar and it's £59 return, but only free for under 4 year olds. DS1 turns 4 in August (my baby!) so DH and I were thinking we might pop over on a weekday if we can, but if anyone wants to pop over too he said he'd take DS1 to the Louvre while I have coffee.

Lady I have been picturing your DD sorting her toys, sounds very sofisticated. DS2 tends to sort his by sitting or crawling over them and which ever one he face plants into first that's the one he'll knaw on. We find it (cruelly) amusing that he hasn't worked out to stop himself with his hands yet. At the moment if he wants to go from sitting to lying on his stomach he will just let himself fall forward and face plant. This is fine in the garden or on a rug (or into toys) but on the wooden floor it's a bit nasty and causes much screaming and carrying on.

Oh and have to add Kayz I can't stop thinking about your cup cakes I think I'm going to have to either make some or go to a cafe and eat some.

And Lady well done on slow weight loss, it's healthier to lose it slowly and more likely to stay off. I too am having slow success only 4kg to go and I will officially be on the high side of my weight range so officially no longer overweight.

Which reminds me I missed the baby weigh bit a few pages back but DS2 was 3.7kg at birth and is now 8.2kg I'm not sure what that is in pounds but should try to work it out.

Hello!!

Quick post as I am very tired!! Christening went well and no screaming from DS2. Little bit annoyed as SIL made a bloody cake as she doesn't like fruit cake, which is why I made the cupcakes. But apart from that it was brilliant!!

I just popped on as I was thinking of you kay and was hoping you had a lovely day. Well to be honest was also hoping for a little inlaws goss. Have to say they came through, of course she would make her own what were you thinking Kayz because of course it's not about DS2 it's about her.

I need to take DS2 for his bath but can't leave the TV