Dec 08 mums - embuggerance to it all - sleep or no sleep we love our babes

[waitinggirl]

i hope people don't mind, i took the bull by the horns and did it. title a bit naff, but more important the thread exists rather than search for a better title. hope i haven't stolen anyone's thunder...

NJA: a grunt of solidarity on the relationship front, no useful ideas I'm afraid! But let me know if you get any. I think we often forget having children is rough on men, they have to deal with the changes (at home and in us) and they are then sidelined and told their feelings don't matter - all anyone wants to know is how 'mum' is doing.

Row: hello . I've recently moved to Colchester from London and am enjoying it, until I start commuting at any rate.

Spot: nights sound tough. The heat doesn't help at all.

On the sleep front, things seem to be improving again for us partly due to solids (oddly), partly my efforts to get DS2 off to sleep without feeding (this involves singing, poor chap) and partly bunging my feeding pillow in the cot to support him on his side which I'm sure is against all advice . He would only sleep on his side and was constantly flipping onto his back and waking up screaming. This way he can get onto his back but it isn't such a sudden movement, and he isn;t being pushed onto his front or anything. Am still in 2 minds about it BUT he's gone back to waking twice between my bedtime and morning. Which I am very happy about.

Further to chat ages ago about toddlers, have got the How to Talk book from the library and skim read, must go back through it methodically. Found it a bit upsetting as I can see all the awful things I'm telling DS1 (which my parents told me of course!). I think it was Veggie who was worrying about 'breaking' her perfect child Me too. I think the book makes a lot of sense so will try applying it methodically - wish me luck!

effie yay to sleeping baby! Will you let me know about that How to Listen book? I thought it was more for teenagers but if it is for toddlers as well then that would be great. Like you & veggie I'm sure I'm saying all the wrong things to ds1 atm as well!

Tilly I am really touched that you remembered today was a hard day for me and were thinking of me. Really, that is lovely, thank you . In fact the anniversary hasn't been too painful. Thats the great thing about kids, they don't give you a minute to dwell on things. What was odd is that my Mum died at 5.40am and at 5.40am on the dot DD2 let out a cry and woe me up. I saw the time and thought "oh God, this minute five years ago was the scariest minute of my life" and then I realised DD2 had gone back to sleep so I did too!

Effie I have a real biter on my hands, and she has two razor sharp teeth. One of my nips is actually cut. Its horrible. DD1 was like Veggie's DS1 and stopped the first time I took her off the breast but DD2 just keeps chomping. Owwww. Let me know if you find a tactic for stopping it.

Row welcome. Sorry you are having sleep nightmares too. I live in west London and that is where my sleep consultant works. Is that any good for you? So far the effects seem to be long lasting (please don't let typing that mean I have jinxed it. pretty please?). Since she first slept through last Wednesday night she has either slept through, or woken once briefly and self-settled within mins. It makes such a difference to my life. I am getting my energy back now, and my patience and my optimism. Its lovely.

WG lovely to see you back. I peeked at your photos on FB and they are lovely. Madam really loves your Dad's lady friend doesn't she - such grins!

Veggie I hope J gets better soon. You make camping sound such fun. Like Trace I have been to scared to try it with babies (except Featherdown which is v luxurious and can hardly be called camping). I think we might give it a go next summer. You even made me want to go to Camp Bestival (and I thought my festival days were long gone)!

Is anyone else watching the Murray match? It was pretty tense early on but things are looking better now. I am hooked. I had meant to spend the evening listening to a CD my mum made of herself talking when she knew she was dying. I have never managed to listen to it (except for once with her before she died). I thought today would be a good day but I think its too much and so I will use Murray and MN as a distraction instead .

Hi arti. I'm glad the day went OK for you. And that you are getting more sleep to, I bet that helps a lot.

I'm watching the tennis as well. But I'd rather be watching "Supersizers go..." But they've taken it off to put Crimewatch on instead. Which is a crime in itself.

I am scared to even ask what "Supersizers Go..." is???

Tennis now very tense again. Damn it. I was going to have an early night.

Its where the restaurant critic, Giles Coren and a comedienne whose name I cant remember spend a week eating menus from the past (ie 1980s, so lots of pacers and angel delight), or medieval (lots of whole animals, and no vegetables). Its very entertaining in an odd way after a difficult day and mindnumbing in a good way

I am going to bed because last night was rubbish, but DH is enjoying the tennis.

Oooh, yes, I have watched that, it is quite good isn't it? I hope you get a good night's sleep.

arti - i feel for you in terms of the anniversary - i never know how to honour my mum properly - sometimes i got to a concert, sometimes i drink champagne, sometimes i just don't really do much at all. nothing ever seems to help. great news on your sleeping - i am crossing fingers and hoping it will go well. yes, she does love dad's ladyfriend - ah , bless...

isn't hte tennis gripping? i love it!

NJAN - it's sue perkins, an old friend of my dh with giles coren.

Hooray for Andy and Lleyton.

Arti I imagine the CD would be very difficult to listen to, bit spooky about DD2 waking. Maybe your mum was paying her a visit. You may find this bizarre but the first time I went back home with DS1 I was staying with my brother and his family. One night I woke up to go to the loo and on my way through their house I saw what looked like someone's shadow in front of me. I didn't have my glasses on so couldn't see which of my nieces was trying to scare me, so I said 'is that you X' saying one of my nieces names, but no one said anything so I thought maybe it was just the light and my short sighted-ness. The next morning I mentioned it to my sister inlaw and she said 'oh that's your dad, he visited after the birth of each of the girls' they had 4 girls. She believed that he came to visit each grandchild to welcome them into the family. I'm not sure if it's true but I was away from DH (he had gone back to UK) and I was missing him but that night I had the first good sleep I'd had since DS1 was born and had a really calm and secure feeling after I'd seen what I think was my dad.

Oh Arti come to Camp Bestival, it'll be brilliant.

I had a lovely ride tonight I really love cycling around here.

Thinking of you very very much Arti.

I am off to London tomorrow and will be around Wednesday morning if you fancy a coffee. I know you are on your own this week. I have to be in Primrose Hill by 3 but apart from that...

I haven't been on here too much as there have been stresses with the Inland Revenue, paying money back and trying to offer on the house we saw on Saturday...it's all very tight.

I like Giles I know he's not everyone's cup of tea.

Welcome back, WG!

I wrote a list of things to say to different people and now I can't flipping well find it - DP is preparing for a trial tomorrow and there are papers everywhere. So forgive my omissions.

Syb - I am sorry you are low. What a bugger about the nanny. You said you have six weeks to find someone to cover - well, that's something I suppose. But this whole work thing is so stressful. I admire you greatly for juggling a job and three kiddies. Gloves up. As for the dons at the pub quiz, I would hope to give them a run for their money on the literature round as well as popular culcher

ZJ - you asked me for some questions and I can barely remember any - um...What breaks but never falls and what falls but never breaks? And of whom did their manager Doug Smith say "You'll never make it on TOTP with a name like Bastard"? Sorry your DH hasn't been tidying up. There's a lot of that here. Makes me want to go at him with an axe, quite frankly.

Well done on the run, Tilly! I am seriously impressed!

Spot and Pingu, hope the zoo was nice. Phew! Must've been scorching.

PMK - any news on the fraud? I bank with HSBC Premier as well. I would say they are...mixed.

Hello Row!

NJAN - good luck for work on Wednesday. That's when I have my meeting about my terms for going back to work.

Which reminds me - Daisy D, any news?

Veggie - that is so cool about the camping. I never thought I'd camp again but I must be chilling out as I really think I could enjoy it again now.

Modern - I say this every time but that poor lady with the mad five kids...

JB - how many teeth now - 18? 20?

Everyone else, I haven't forgotten you. I am just knackered and my crib sheet has gone. I remember Trace's chocolate kebabs.

Right, off to finish making my carrot and apricot puree.

Oh, and Effie, what's How to Talk? Is it to teach parents how to talk to their kids without giving them complexes or is it how to encourage children's speech?

Gosh, I wonder how JJ's flight went.

Are we all nice on here, though? It's so good.

And Row - are you Row rhyming with Blow - or Cow?

We had a girl on here called Lowrib (Lowrib, where are you) and she was always Low-rib in my mind, and it turned out she was Lowri-B.

Maybe that's why she left us!

Effie forgot to say about that book. One of the most helpful things it said was at the beginning in the forward I think. One of the authors said she still loses it and goes against anything she knows she should do and snaps at her kids and yells. But that keeping in mind some of the things the book recommends helps to diffuse situations that might escalate most of the time. I'm a bit sleepy but that basically was the gist of it.

Lady it is a book that helps show ways to speak to your child in certain situations to help keep every body happy and feeling respected I guess. It also helps to show how kids think and how it differs to what we think they are thinking and helps to again sort out tricky situations.

Right better go to bed after some chocolate.

Morning,

Loved the Murray match last night!! Very very tense though.

Arti How strange about DD2 waking up at that time. I do like Veggie's idea about your Mum visiting her.

Veggie I went out on the bike too yesterday evening. I did 14 miles. Slowly building up now to what I used to be able to do.

LadyT Hope everything with the Inland Revenue gets sorted out soon. Also hope the house offer gets accepted.

Hello to Row!! Welcome!

Hi to everyone else, hope you are all well and enjoying the sun.

I did the marzipan on DS2's cake yesterday and need to do the icing today. I've got a light blue icing. Just hoping it all goes well.

Hello all from tropical London! These warm sunny mornings are helping me to start the day at 5:30, which DS has decided is a reasonable time to wake up .

Can't remember who recommended sitters.co.uk, but thanks! We used them for the first time on Saturday night. We had tickets to Hard Rock calling in Hyde Park and needed someone to watch DS from 5:00 (including bedtime bottle and settling to sleep). I almost cancelled towards the end of last week because the last couple of weeks he was so hard to settle at bedtime. But in the end we decided to go out anyway and let the babysitter deal with it. Of course he went down easily for her, woke for a bottle at 23:00 and then slept through until 6:30! Who is this masked woman and how do I get her to move in with us??

The only slight issue was that I have clearly gotten out of practice of being able to socialise with normal people and drink alcohol because I was so so hungover on Sunday I couldn't function until 14:00. . I actually still felt hungover on Monday. Not making that mistake again!

Arti - Hope you're surviving your difficult week.

My DH is going away tonight, so I expect DS and the three cats to conspire against me again and be up all night (DS and cats) and catching frogs (cats...hopefully not DS).

We are overexcited first time parents and taking DS for professional photos today.

Hope everyone is well and able to enjoy the beautiful sunshine!

It's very hot here already for not yet 8am. Poor M is wailing in his cot, his little room is like an oven and the fan just seems to be blowing the hot air round. MOM, I can't remember if you are near me (SE21) - if you are and if you go to Brockwell Park, you can see the heat / smog haze over the city.

Kayz, good luck for the cake - by when does it need to be done ? And what type of design did you go for eventually ? You must be very talented.

Arti, so sorry you have a hard week in prospect (esp in the heat) but am glad yesterday was not too painful for you. I think the idea of your mum visiting N is very comforting. Thinking of you muchly and sending love and good thoughts to the West.

LadyT, boo to HMRC and fingers crossed for the house. What's it like? Does it need much done? Incidentally, I am sure you can give most dons more than a run for their money on the literature; IME of dons though, they may struggle to compete with you (or indeed anyone who has spent time in the 21st centuty) on matters less, er, "erudite"

Modern - re the lady with 5 kids, I often feel a bit cumbersome in terms of tea etc as my party is so large. You are being kind by including her as she may well feel isolated. I have no problems telling visiting children how to behave when they are here. There are house rules (no bouncing on sofa, no hitting, so snatching toys etc) which my lot have to abide by and so others have to do the same, even if they are allowed at home. I point this out gently to visitors and it is OK with them - well, I assume it is as they do come back!

Effie, how is Essex? Do you feel settled in y our new gaff now?

How was last night, Spot? And NJAN, how are things with DH? Thinking of you both.

Hello my lovely Veggie and all you other gorgeous gals.

Had a lovely evening yest with some friends drinking wine in their garden. Am taking kids to park this pm and out for a bit of light shopping in the am. Alas double buggy broken so wiull need to wear M in sling and use single. I'll be very sweaty by lunchtime. Nice.

It is a square fruit cake. Just doing plain blue icing that has this on the top. Thinking of piping DS2's name onto it as well. I'll post some pics when it is finished.

Hello everyone and welcome Row- I'm new too but everyone here is lovely

Top tip for those with biters- when they start to bite pull them towards your boob. It is totally counter-intuative but it does work. Their noses squash into your boob and they have to open their mouth to breathe. They soon learn that biting doesn't pay.

drat ds has just woken up..

Think I might do the cake icing tomorrow. Might pack the kids up and go to the beach!!

Thanks for the welcome everyone!

I'm not able to remember everyone's names yet so sorry if I leave anyone out...

effie Colcester is meant to be lovely isn't it? I'm on the essex/london borders so wondered if you was close by. We moved from London as well, I prefer it here - close enough to get to work, far away enough to not be stuck in the city.

artichoke Thanks, unfortunately I think that would be too far away which is a pity - I don't want to use anyone without a personal reccomendation and without being sure they just won't leave him to cry. I'm glad that it is still working and I'm sorry you had a sad day yesterday, hope you are feeling better today.

LadyThompson It's Row as in Blow - or row row row the boat. Obviously I would have been mortally wounded if I had known you was rhyming it with cow in your head, and would have let immediately! :-)

Something strange happened last night, for once he drank well yesterday in the day so I decided to make the effort and to try to get him to sleep some other way than feeding when he did his first wake up at around 1am....I was all jazzed up, I was going to try for at least 10 minutes...and then he never woke up, not until 6am! Don't worry though sleep deprived friends, he once before slept from 11pm - 7am and it appeared that he was catching up on sleep in advance of the worst stretch of sleep he ever did from the next night onwards for a whole week. So I'm not optimistic that this is a new era, but I feel great today and I'll take my one night's sleep right now! We did have the fan on him last night, not sure if the white noise would have helped, but I'll definately try it on again tonight.

Mom I'll have to try that company out, we have no one to babysit for our son nearby, and I think that after 6 months it maybe time for some more couple time with my husband.

Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday to you, Happy Birthday dear Arti, Happy Birthday to you!

(Lucky you can't hear me singing !)

Gosh Arti, is it your birthday today? Well done Nolda. I am hopeless with Facebook because it takes ages to load on my ancient Mac. Happy Birthday dear girl! Any plans? Any hope of coffee tomorrow?

Kayz, you are clever with your cakemaking. I am pleased as punch because DD liked my carrot and apricot puree, and frankly a child could've made that.

I used dried apricots which I put in the same pan as when I was cooking the carrots, and then blended it all together with some of the cooking water. It came out a treat, and I made it much less sweeter than the Ella's Kitchen ones in the hope of getting her used to it and she seemed to love it!

I am making pea and prune next to the same method, which DP thinks sounds vile

Oh, and Row - I wasn't thinking you were a Cow! I simply thought you might have had 78 arguments this year or something (like we have here )

Gah auwswiffaaarghyuk! Veggie needs coffee...just on to say happy birthday to Arti now must find coffee.