March 09 - there is no snooze button on a baby that needs milk.....!

[meep]

over here ladies

Welcome Jaz2

Gosh you tell everyone is so busy at the moment the page has really slowed down recently.

Nothing exciting to report here, still having one feed during the night and having increasing little solid feeds during the day. Have now added mango to the lists of foods she has tried. She is very cute when eating, she try anything if it is put on her spoon but she does pull some funny faces, I think the mango was really too sharp for her she looked like she was eating a lemon, I even put some rice in it to lessen this impact but still the funny faces. Not that it stopped her from eating it mind you.

Hope that some of those with non-sleepers are managing a little better and that the babies are starting to get some of the sleepy vibes that we are sending.

Corgi hope your back is getting better. Your hubby sounds like a star.

September seems too be coming far too quickly for me, as that is when I am back to work. I am really starting to wish I could afford to stay off longer. But oh well, at least it is only part time to start with.

Not really busy here, just not a lot to say!

Still the same sleep problem, but yesterday I discovered there are teeth in them there gums! Two visible white lines and lumps on the bottom, and two white lines in the top gum!

So... how long till they break through at the bottom? My nips are a bit scared!!!

Aaarggghh. BF to FF questions coming your way, ladies!

Funny that what one reads on the internet is mostly about mixing formula with breast milk in each bottle, and gradually cutting down on the proportion of breast milk. Since that's not what March mums do, nor what a couple of friends have done, I decided to go the route of just subbing one formula feed for a breast feed every 3-4 days, and today was the day to start.

Rhys HATED the formula. We tried at room temp first (I really wanted to see if I can get away with that for simplicity's sake). He drank an ounce and howled. We warmed it. He drank three more sips and categorically turned his nose up at it with an outraged expression.

So. Now what?

1. If he refuses the formula, do I top up with nursing or let him howl with hunger until he gives up and goes for the formula? (Today, I nursed as who knows how long the hunger would take and I didn't want microbes breeding in the bottle!)

2. Do I keep trying him on this formula, or try a few different brands to see if he prefers another one?

3. I'm seriously worried about managing the transition from an on-demand BF system to a scheduled FF system -- simply because Rhys does NOT like to eat very much at any given feed. He feeds every two hours during the day and every three hours at night, because he refuses to do much more than get rid of the initial hunger pains. Does anyone have any tips on how to get babies to eat more at each feed?

4. And finally: when I topped him up nursing today, he didn't drink much anyway, and kept pulling off and/or tugging at his ear. Have read somewhere that this is another teething sign and that nursing can put pressure on sore gums. Have also read that one shouldn't try to transition/wean when the baby is teething, but as it seems he'll be teething for the next two years...what to do? Wait? Soldier on?

Sigh. Did I mention that for the past three nights, Rhys has been waking up every 1.5 hours? We are all knackered.

(I'm also going to post this on the Feeding board, but I KNOW you guys and hence trust you implicitly!)

corgi you should be smiling that he took an ounce!
if i remember doing this with ds1, 8 years ago, he was 9 months old and prefered not to try FF thank you... i persisted every day at the after lunch nap, with offering the formula after some breastmilk. i didn't expect him to love it instantly, but each day he took more and more ounces until the whole feed was replaced. did this for each feed then. you need to do it gradually so you own body winds down milk production gently.

other tactics:

tba, everyone yelling for lunch!!!

back again

other tactics:

yes try other brands of formula, tip: don't buy the largest tin. i did this once and had to throw it all out as dd1 never took to milk and still won't drink it. try the small ready made ones first.

try other teats.( i was determined to stick with avent once i started though, as could get expensive this way)

do wait until he is calm(!) before trying new things ie give him BF first just to take the edge off, and he might be more willing to give FF a try.

i don't know how to get a baby to have more at a feed.

re teething: yes never heard that one! soldier on i'm afraid, keeping in mind that it is best to do things when little chap is more content, thus putting some credibility into that theory.

slick good to hear that dummies are ok, will apply them with renewed enthusiasm.

boobz, jaz2, sorry to hear of constant feeding too.

same here, feeding 1 to 2 times a night. here is my rant:

took LO to doctor yesterday, to revisit gavsicon reflux issue. he is pleased she is maintaining the percentile now but wants her to have more calories. not my usual GP so doen't know me as well. he said one can't be sure how much BM she is getting so advised to give 2-3 oz FF at bedtime "to get her sleeping throught the night". that was never my problem!

back in a mo

anyway,
part 3

he also said the issue of when to start weaning to solids is a grey area, so he wouldn't have a problem with me if i started her on baby rice, now at 18 weeks rather than wait til 26 weeks. hooray to that one!

i am not keen to start FF at all, as it would be the end of BF for us then. I may try the rice first though. I would feel awful if i didn't take doctor's advice. i know it would benefit us both on the other hand as i am so tired.

to help matters more, DH seems to side with doc, even half agreeing when i said what don't you think a 41 year old has as much milk as a 21 year old!!!

might talk to my nice HV who has known me for 5 years...

end of musings, i will go....

ps does anyone know why i can't see people's profiles any more?

x

Slick The only cure for my DH's snoring was losing weight! He wasn't particularly fat, but he went on a bit of a fitness kick and lost about a stone and it went away. However, since birth of DD2 and the subsequent disappearance of his social life, weight has gone right back on and presumably the snoring has started but this time it doesn't bother me because I am sleeping with the baby...

It's nice to know I'm not the only one suffering sleepless nights. I think you're all much better than me at dealing with it. The trouble with me is I am a glass half-empty person and I start thinking that it will never end, when of course it will.

Corgi I would definitely recommend a NUK teat - it's the only one i've had success with with DD2 and I still can't quite believe she will take a bottle. She hated the formula at first too and it has to be really warm. If it gets too cool she spits it out in disgust. I share your problem with the small feeds - the most she's ever taken is 4 oz and it's the same with the BFing. I have to say I think there must be some correlation between poor sleeping and poor feeding. I think DD2 has some kind of stomach issue (reflux/wind/who knows) that stops her from eating as much as she needs. Also, she is really constipated, which I know causes her a lot of problems.

lol slick at the stinky bats! DH did that bit with dd1 - who loved it - ran around shrieking gleefully - while I stayed outside with a very little Rosie!

welcome jaz2 - come and join the fun!

kanga had also heard that dummies now recommended to protect against SIDS

Corgi have seen quite a few posters on here who have been in your position and like elsy recommended NUK teats. I am sure you can get them online.

Only news here is that we finally moved Rosie into her cot. All fine - and she went to sleep without a peep - but this morning at 5.45am she could see me and giggled and shouted. So after weeks of 7am starts I am now back to 6am starts - ugh! Hopefully the novelty of seeing my face first thing will wear off soon (I know it has for dh - !)

I am starting to get the fear about going back to work - I need to chill out and just enjoy these last few months at home. We are moving to lovely shiny new offices just after I go back, so I suppose that is something to look forward to

(yawning icon) Hi all.....

Not much going on here, Gabriel's almost sitting independently and will be 6 months old on 28 Aug. Where has the time gone?

DH wants G on a bottle for when we go to Spain on the 3rd. Fat chance! He hates it, even with EBM, so I'm doing much the same as Kanga suggested and trying after each feed. We're going to a hotel for 2 nights so G will have to drink something!

Other than that have interview for work soon, eeek!

Hi all --

Thanks for the input. Should have specified that Rhys doesn't have a problem with bottles/teats he's been taking EBM regularly for the past couple of months with no problems so it really is the formula itself that's the issue.

We've tried a couple more times with the Nutrilon, and he maxes out at 2 ounces before rejecting it completely. I'm really not sure whether to:

--Keep trying with this formula (and do I top him up with BM afterward/before? I tried outwaiting him today, and he screamed with hunger for 15 minutes before I cracked and nursed him)
--Try other kinds immediately (a friend gave me some Enfamil and some Nestle NAN)

I'm really worried about the nursery; I have grave doubts that he'll be on all formula feeds by Sept. 1 at this rate, and I'm even more concerned that he will still be feeding far more frequently than the average baby of his age. How is THAT going to work out in a Belgian nursery with a 7:1 child:caregiver ratio?

Elsy, I'm a glass-half-empty person, too! Combine that with a poor eating/poor sleeping baby, and the picture is a bit grim at times, isn't it?

I've been feeling so bad for DP, who's getting next to no sleep and is still getting up and going to work, that I ordered him into the spare room last night and had Rhys sleep in bed with me (as I can't pick him up out of his cot yet). Kind of backfired, though, as DP was hugely cross and accused me of thinking that "he couldn't handle the hard stuff" -- so much for trying to do him a good turn!

Hey Y'all, well we're back from our mini-break at Peebles Hydro and we all had a really good time - well as best you can with a toddler getting into EVERYTHING in the room and 5 of us sharing the same space, FB throwing up everywhere with his reflux, the 8 year old needing to know EXACTLY what we were doing every minute of every day and what we'd be doing after that (Bloody control freak like her Grandma ) and me taking all the wrong clothes for myself which meant I had some very odd ensembles for dinner... - not like me too but because I was busy packing the entire HOUSE for everyone else, I think I kinda got bored by the time it came to me..) Anyway, the food was fab and we did a lot of swimming etc and had a laugh remembering how crap brilliant I am at tennis. Meep you were right about the place needing to be refreshed, but the main thing was it was clean and the food was good and the staff friendly. So for once, despite the weather not being good, we had a good break (usually it's a disaster with us.)

Anyway,

Corgi I agree with what Kanga is suggesting in the approach to it, I'd give some breast milk first and then offer formula, I'd also warm it at this stage as it is more palitable (can't spell that) - once he is used to the taste, you can reduce the temp as you go. But I'd certainly persevere. It can take them a while to adjust to new tastes. It didn't do my supply doing both, and replacing one feed with another is an ideal way of doing it. Have you tried SMA? Do you get it where you are? I was also going to say if he is teething then he will find the teet a bit harder on the gums and while he may think its great to bite, he may find it irritates a bit when it rubs when feeding so that may be a reason why he comes off it. Mine all did (and do)anyway - not as nice as a boob I guess!

Kanga That was the other thing - what Meep said about dummies (the most important actually!!) that it helped prevent SIDs they reckon. FB doesn't have one as he's not really been that interested and has found his thumb anyway, but my God it's welded to DD2. Am dreading the cold turkey week that's going to take to get it off her.

Elsy Funny you should mention the weight - despite all the cycling he does, he does struggle to keep it off his stomach/chest area and he thinks that he has put on more lately so maybe I should kick his arse along with mine into the gym.

I went swimming whilst away and I was quite surprised how fit I actually was as I just kept going and going, but I am feeling it today, and I have a way to go to get rid of the extra stash.

Meep Well done for getting Rosie into the cot I'm sure she loves all that extra space! It is a bugger that they can see you tho....

Corgi I meant to say that it didn't do my supply any harm.

corgi and boobz
try not to worry about nursery, that is what the staff are there for, and there may be more contented/older babies who won't need as much attention. you get your money's worth little man and girl!!!

by the way, thinking more about transition to FF: i had to do it pretty quickly with ds2 so i could return to work at short notice. it took 4 weeks exactly to go from fully BF to fully FF and solids, poor chap!!!

looking back at my notes(!) (i kept a note in diary as to how it was going, weird or what?), he started with 1/2 oz, then after 2 days 4 1/2 oz. after a week it was 2oz, 4oz, 4 oz at 3 feeds in one day. these were all top ups after BF. after 2 weeks he was having just a morning BF. i recall reading that you should allow a week to drop each BF. you still have time to do this at least for day time feeds, and leave morning and evening as BF: a nice thing for you both at the beginning/end of the day.

the last two BF can be dropped later. try to be relaxed too about all these changes as he might pick up your tension. i know it is worrying but hope this helps.

xxx

also i agree with slick, i have always used SMA...

glad you had a nice break slick...

kanga How old was your DS? I met a friend for lunch yesterday and she said her 8 month old was down to 1 BF morning and night and a couple of snacks!

Gabe's 24w and still regards BF as his main food, although he doesn't have a feed after 7pm so he does feed a lot in the day. Still no luck with formula, he looks at me like I'm poisoning him!

laumiere

yes i should have said, he was 15 weeks when i first gave the 1/2 oz, then he was 19 weeks by the time he was fully FF/starting solids. Keep in mind that back then in the good old days, (he is nearly 7 now), you could start solids earlier than they now recommend.

i am so laid back about it now that i was told i was giving dd1 too many breastfeeds (4-5 a day) when she was 15 months. she was on solids by then too. we cut back to a morning BF and a bedtime BF quite quickly and her intake of solids improved.

BF/FF is their main food for now though. there seem to be plenty of threads to follow on MN on these issues.

i am now grappling with feeding issues again with baby no 5. it still feels like a minefield.

Thanks Kanga for the advice. We are on Day 5 of the Bottle Battle, but DD has just managed to take 3oz from the bottle - hurrah! Proper slurping and sucking sounds and everything! The last 4 days she has protested so much, most of the milk has ended up on her chest, and she basically refused to eat from 7am to 3pm (when she could have the boob again). Anyway, it looks like day 5 has been the break through - she's stopped feeding from the bottle now but doesn't look hungry or upset, so maybe she only ever took a small amount from me at the 11am boob feed?

Next feed to drop onto the bottle is 3pm, from Sunday. That still gives me 4 weeks to introduce solids and drop evening boob feed (am thinking of carrying on the Morning boob feed for a few more months, but maybe I won't when I start work - not sure).

Found the most AMAZING childminders (3 of them working in one big 4 story house, looking after 8 kids / babies, so it feels like a mini nursery, but more intimate than a nursery, IYSWIM). And about half the price of the posh nursery DD was going to go to, so DH is very happy to! Can't believe she will be on 3 bottles a day, solids and starting childminders all within a month from now - I can still remember when she was so little her mouth could barely get on my huge boobs! And now look at her (new pic on profile).

More pics from everyone please!

P.S. Corgi, you are of course the expert on your own baby, so feel free to ignore, but could it possibly be the reason Rhys is not feeding from the bottle with you because it's YOU and not the formula? Penny happily took the occasional bottle of EBM (and the odd formula bottle when my freezer stocks ran low) from DH and a couple of mates who babysat of an evening.... but has screamed bloody murder every time I have tried to do it! I think she knows she can get boobs from me so is upset when I give her the bottle - not because it's formula, if you see what I'm getting at? Could you try your DH giving him a bottle of formula and see if he takes it?

just for interest:

ds1: BF until 9 months, difficult to start FF but ok in the end

ds2: as before, BF to 19 weeks, very laid back baby so probably easy to do anything with

ds3: BF until 6 months, big boy, loves his milk still, don't remember difficulties switching him to FF, just that i didn't think i could satisfy his hunger with BF.

dd1: BF to 16 months. never liked formula, wouldn't drink cow's milk, so kept on BF. (lucky to be SAHM) was advised that calcium intake absolutely fine from other sources. she would drink diluted juices, and we still have the refrain "aaaappple joooooooooooooce noooooow!!!!" (trying to get her to say please)

dd2: still BF at 18 weeks, being told to start FF, but i am not keen.

amazing how different they all have been.

yey boobz you have cracked it!

glad you are happy with childcare arrangements.

i can't access profiles anymore, any tips? anyone know anything about the inner secrets of MN?

That's weird! I can access other people's... email MNHQ and see what the prob is.

Kanga I am sooooo impressed that you have managed to breastfeed that football team! (Although if you are anything like me, I shudder to think what the state of your norks are in...)

I just couldn't keep up with Hungry Happy Boab and I can't imagine still feeding him at this point even tho I fed the other two til 6 months - although they were also on top-ups, but as I said before I am a 'break-junkie' (as in getting a little time to self). So hats off to all of you who are still BFing.

I just took HHB to get weighed and he is now 19lb 15.5oz so he has calmed down a little - that's about a pound and a half in 4 weeks. The HV told me he is 22 weeks now (I've lost count) and we chatted about the reflux - I'm going to increase his solids (and make the consistancy thicker) in the hope it will calm it down, I'm also getting a 'script for infant gaviscon so one way or another hopefully it will help. I've also decided that it's water from here on in for any night time wakenings as quite frankly, he's taking the piss and he doesn't need it. I feel it's time for no more Mrs-Softie! Am such a cow eh?

Kanga The profiles are now accessed through the names themselves. They've changed the way you do it now (fewer icons I guess). Try that and see if it works.

Love the photos Boobz She's a wee cutie! Must take some more pics of mine and also take photos of the renovated wee ones' room. Think Corgi or Wheely was asking? Will try and do it later.

ah so simple thank you slick. i must have missed the update to new improved MN.

now i can see all the lovely pics boobz, v. cute.

i did email MN and they never replied sadly.

slick my poor boobies are wrecked, not that they have been ever that impressive anyway. i will go back to a -aaa size when i stop BF. i half suspect DH likes me pregnant because of nice chest!!! but no never again will i be so well endowed.

i guess I find BF less of a faff, one less chore to do, not having to sterilise. but i do wonder if dd2 is getting enough, and the BF is tiring to produce, so i feel guilty that the whole family could be better off if i stop and have more energy.

i want to keep going though to give some protection to nasty swine flu if it comes our way. we had a distressing time with dd1 when she was 9 month old: she went into sudden heart failure after contracting a virus, the doctors think, and she was in intensive care twice. nearly lost her. it is another (long) story, but she started to recover last november, but is still on medication for her heart.

mummies can never win!

Aww Kanga - sounds like you had a tough time of it with your other daughter - Pen is due for a scan for her heart in a month's time as the doctor heard a murmur at her 8 week check up - fingers crossed it's nothing.

And well done for keeping up the breast feeding - I'm proud to have got to 5 months and will still be doing it when she's 6 months and I go back to work, but I'm not sure if I can keep it up after that. I wish I didn't have to go back, as I'd feed her for at least a year I think if I could.

Put some pics of your LO up!